I can’t lie. I expected my 10 Things Americans Don’t Know About America to stir up some controversy. And I had hopes it would be shared and attract some new readers to the site. In fact, I had been sitting on it for a few months. The article felt like something which needed to be saved for the right moment.
The moment came last weekend. An old article of mine, A Dust Over India reached the top of Hacker News and subsequently two separate sub-reddits. People then shared it 1,500 times on Facebook.
Over 50,000 visitors flooded the site over the next day and a half, and with them hundreds of angry (mostly Indian) commenters posting about how I was either brilliant, a moron, completely naïve, or some combination of all three. Many of them trashed me personally and asked me how I would feel if someone criticized my country and culture.
How would I feel? Allow me the pleasure, I thought. I had been sitting on my America article for a while and this seemed like the perfect opportunity, not only to rebut my angry Indian brethren, not only for my cathartic release of frustrations about my home country, but also to cash in on a surge of traffic and hopefully get even more viral social media attention.
What I got was more than I ever expected, in every way imaginable. As of today, the article has been shared on Facebook over 145,000 times and tweeted 2,900 times. The past week, the site received almost 1.1 million (yes, a million) new visitors. My server crashed more times than I can count. By the end of the week I was so familiar with my host’s technical support staff I probably could have invited them over for a barbecue.
The Comment Cesspool
And along with that avalanche of traffic came the commenters. Everyone knows that internet comment threads are not exactly the pinnacle of the human experience. But wow… did this devolve into a 1,400-comment-deep verbal shit-heap.
Not to say there weren’t some really bright and insightful comments, there were plenty and I appreciate them. And not to say that I’m some all-knowing worldly guy who doesn’t say dumb stuff or put his foot in his mouth with some regularity (I definitely do).
But what a mess.
And look, I realize I was asking for it. Few topics get more controversial and obnoxious than calling out the ignorance of entire countries. I know I can come off as a condescending know-it-all. Part of that’s just me (I’m American, after all). And part of that is that this is a personal blog and not the The Economist. I get that. And I get that I flubbed some generalizations or maybe exaggerated things here or there. But the uproar from the commentariat crescendoed to a level of parody.
I’d like to take a moment and address a few of the more common attacks made:
- People projecting whatever negative attributes they wanted onto me. Between the two articles, I was referred to as a meat-head jock, a womanizing douchebag, a pretentious hipster, a closeted faggot, a glorified tourist, an elitist liberal, an uneducated simpleton, among other unpleasant stereotypes. I was told by some that I need to travel more (what?). I was told by others that I needed to stop running away from my problems (err?). And predictably, I was told if I don’t like the US to get out (already did?). Either way, it seems that anyone who didn’t like reading what I wrote decided to color me onto a caricature of whichever stereotype they personally loathe.
People who hate pigheaded jocks characterized me as a pigheaded jock. People who hate pretentious hipsters and dirty backpackers characterized me as a pretentious hipster and dirty backpacker. People made assumptions about my life, my childhood, my education, my politics, my family, and my love life, without knowing anything about any of it. And in the process many of them merely reinforced my original points. Bravo.
- The “generalizing based on personal experience” irony. These comments got the biggest chuckle out of me. They would go on about how arrogant and self-absorbed I was for characterizing an entire nation based on my personal observations and experience. They would then go into detail about how Americans “really are” and proceed to generalize and stereotype them in the same but opposite way. And then there were those who told me that their community/family/school/study-abroad-program/Wednesday-night-bridge-club didn’t fit my generalizations and therefore I’m wrong. Or they claimed my points were “obvious” and that I must be an idiot to not have noticed them before.
OK, I totally over-generalized and stereotyped. You got me. I even admitted it in the beginning of the article. But over-generalizing and stereotyping back at me doesn’t make it any better.
And look, you have to remember, I have to remember, we all have to remember, that even the fact we’re discussing this on the internet, on a blog that you found from Facebook, makes us all part of an elite minority. Only one-third of American citizens own a passport, and that’s an all-time high. 46% of Americans believe the universe was created in seven days. Most Americans believe global warming is a hoax. 22% of Americans think the world will end during their lifetime. So no, I’m sorry. I am going to generalize here: your internet buddies, your college buddies, your upper-middle class family and neighbors, they all may know better. But the majority of the United States does not.
- Picking fights over history and politics. Despite mentioning some historical anecdotes and statistics, some commenters mistook my post about my subjective cultural observations as a socio-political dissertation and decided to nitpick the hell out of everything. When I say people are generally friendlier towards me in places like Guatemala or Russia, pulling up the homicide rates on Wikipedia proves absolutely nothing other than your lack of reading comprehension. Get your head out of a book and go experience life for yourself. This was a big one for the India article in particular. As if my historical understanding of the Mogul Empires is supposed to negate the thousands of people living in piles of garbage around me.
I think for some people it’s easier to argue facts and statistics than confront the emotional and social realities in ourselves and our cultures. I found it interesting that the vast majority of people who had traveled widely and lived abroad agreed strongly with the America article, while most people who disagreed with it resorted to statistics, historical facts, and studies. I’m not saying they’re wrong. I’m no historian. I just find it interesting that that is what their mind immediately jumped to.
So there’s my vent. Having blogged for over four years, I thought I had gotten good at handling criticism. But there were a few nights last week where I’d prune through 200+ comments of angry criticism in a single sitting. It got hard to bear at times. There are few situations in this world where you have the chance to sit down for an hour and let 200 anonymous people deconstruct how stupid and ignorant you are. Whether they’re right or wrong or just angry, emotionally it’s a hell of an experience and not exactly pleasant. Regardless, I read every comment.
For what it’s worth, the majority of comments and personal emails raved over the article and the website in general. There was a ton of support from people on Facebook and Twitter as well. And that doesn’t even count the marriage proposals from a few beautiful ladies. I’m so grateful for people who enjoy this site and enjoy my writing. It allows me to keep doing what I love and I never take that for granted. But psychological studies show that we experience the pain of criticism more severely than the praise of adulation. And I’m no different. So it was rough-going at times.
Legitimate Criticisms
I’d like to wrap this up by acknowledging some legitimate criticisms and thank people for bringing them up.
- Location selection in India/Not knowing what I was getting into. A number of Indians (and knowledgeable westerners) commented on my location selection from my India article, saying that I selected some of the worst possible places to visit in the country. A number of them also mentioned that the experience is quite different if you know a local to show you around and introduce you to people. Enough people commented on this to compel me to go back at some point and get off the beaten-path a bit more. A few commenters were kind enough to offer to show me around if I came to their city. A few even called me out for my self-pitying, rich white-boy act, saying that I got off more on feeling sorry for the locals than actually do anything about it. So I when I return, I pledge to volunteer for a charity organization.
- Gender/race factoring into experiences of other countries. I’m a young white male. Many cultures and countries still discriminate (heavily) against women and different races. This is very true. And on the charge that I was being totally self-absorbed in making some of these assumptions as a white, single male: guilty as charged. It is a different experience and one of the great things about the United States is that relative to the rest of the world, it treats women and people of race fairly well.
- The Aussie/English-American love/hate relationship. A LOT of Aussies and English chimed in saying that they, in fact, do not love Americans. I made the statement that the English and Aussies like us somewhat facetiously. The commenters claimed they disliked us. Based on my experience (a few months in England, a few weeks in Australia), I would characterize it as more of a love/hate relationship. I get the resentment and annoyance — my English and Aussie friends regularly rib me for being American. But there is an attention and affection I get in those countries that I don’t get elsewhere, especially in places like, say, France or Spain. But maybe it’s just the accent.
- United States versus America. A lot of commenters took the liberty to lecture me on the difference between “Americans” and citizens of the US. I live in South America, trust me, I’m aware of this. But unfortunately, in US media, we refer to ourselves as “Americans.” Since people in the United States were my primary target for the article, I consciously went with the decision to refer to them as Americans since they’d be more likely to identify with it. Shoot me.
Overall the experience has been a wild flu-inducing ride. The traffic is still flowing in pretty steadily and I’d like to take a moment to welcome all of the new readers. Beyond all the vitriol, the pretentiousness, and the self-aggrandizing generalizations, this blog is not about country or politics. It’s about relating real experiences and coming to terms with them. A lot of the old content revolves around dating and women, but the site has moved in a more lifestyle and self development route. I hope you’ll take the time to look around and discover that. And whether you like it or not, I thank you for your time.
I enjoyed the 10 Things article via a friend’s FB post. But it troubled me because no solution(s) were offered. To continue the analogy, how do we (the afflicted relative) get into treatment?
First step is admitting you have a problem.
I’m a little surprised at the extent to which so many people become so defensive to what they perceive as criticism of their countries (in both the articles on India and the US). I can easily imagine if Mark wrote about my country (Singapore) and all I’d feel would be curiosity about how he sees us. I’d also love to read what a fellow countryman has learnt after he’s travelled the world.
I’ve always admired the respect and reverence the Americans have for individuality, which is the opposite of respect and reverence for conformity – the way so many Asian societies are. I thought this should mean a certain level of maturity in processing the views of an individual, and the emotional reaction the Americans should have towards Mark’s view.
I’ve not travelled as much as you Mark, but I’ve lived and worked in several countries both in the east and west. I enjoy your articles tremendously, and they often elicit memories of my own emotions, trying to figure out for myself whys and hows of a society, and the struggles I go through emotionally and intellectually. I have always appreciated any chance to share and exchange views with people, because it helps me understand people – and the world -better.
It doesn’t make me a better person. It merely makes me able to enjoy myself a little bit more wherever I am, because there’s less and less that confuse me.
Keep it up Mark. Reading your articles feels to me like I am exchanging views with the best of them. I know you are not being judgemental or even critical, you are just processing your thoughts and emotions, and you have the gift to very nicely express them. There will always be people who don’t understand; how many is actually also an interesting indicator of where the society is.
Enjoyed your post.
The USA article was shared by a friend on Facebook. I loved it, and have since read the majority of your blog over the past week. I don’t agree with everything you write, but I love and have thought deeply about all of it, and I’m so glad I found your website through the shared link. Thanks for your time.
Mark,
Congratulations on all the new visitors and readers!
I read through the USA article comments with interest but dropped out somewhere around the 600-700th comment. I think what’s more impressive than the quality of that post and all the attention it generated is the balanced, mature way you’ve responded to the (and I have to say some were really boneheaded) comments in this article.
Keep it up.
I very rarely comment on articles but I really feel the need to comment on this one, mostly because it’s positive about the America article and I think you need to hear a few more.
I loved the article and agreed with everything you said 100%. I haven’t traveled as much as you, but traveled more than most of my peers. Everything you said was the exact impressions/reactions I’ve received from people traveling and from people I know in the U.S. Again not everybody but with a majority of. I forwarded the article to everyone I know and I want to print it out and hand it out to everyone I pass on a daily basis. Since then I’ve started reading more of your articles and love everything I’ve read so far. Thank you for writing thoughts of mine so eloquently.
I could not be happier that there are so many new people commenting.
Mark,
which hosting service do you use? Have you tried to use Servint?
Most of the ordinary hosting sites can’t handle the traffic so maybe how about buying a server and asking a friend to let it run as a backup in case your primary one shuts down?
Thank you, Mark, for once again showing me that I fit into exactly no one’s stereotypical box.
For the record–
1) I don’t own a passport.
2) I believe the world was created in seven days.
3) I believe (as the article you linked to said) that Armageddon will occur in my lifetime. (I do not believe said battle will be ‘the end of the world’ as most people think about that concept, but that discussion is for another time, if you’re interested enough to talk about it.)
But perhaps most importantly to the discussion at hand:
4) I read, and agreed with, everything you said in the ’10 Things Americans Don’t Know about America’ that I have had any experience with, and after some brief thought, saw the logic in the points you made with which I have had no experience.
This isn’t meant as a diatribe, or even a disagreement, really. I realize that the combination of viewpoints, attitudes and traits the above four points imply make me a very strange individual, liable to make people on all sides of the ideological aisle in the U. S. murderously angry at me if I expressed all my opinions everywhere (rather like the man who tried to make peace in the opening days of the American Civil War by walking between the Union and Confederate lines in a Union-blue coat and Confederate-gray pants–and was shot by both sides for the attempt), but just a quick note to let you know that, though among U. S. citizens we may be very few, there are a few of us who fit into your above description who are not ignorant of America’s arrogance and self-absorption. I liked the article very much and would like to discuss some things further. Even though it hurts when we hear the truth about ourselves, sometimes, people need to hear things like this so we can reevaluate our own personal priorities. Thank you for your honesty, and willingness to be open to criticism/attack. If more people were willing to do this, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in as a nation–as, I believe, you pointed out.
Either shut down the comments section or don’t blog. I thought that was the whole point of blogging. Creating a dialogue. Of course people are going to tear you apart. It’s an the internet. It’s what you signed up for.
While I did agree with most of what you said, it very much reminded me of this much maligned “travelogue” The Vice Magazine Guide to the Balkans
http://m.vice.com/en_uk/the-vice-guide-to-travel/the-vice-to-the-balkans-part-1
And for this one “It is a different experience and one of the great things about the United States is that relative to the rest of the world, it treats women and people of race fairly well.”
I’d invite you here to the South Side of Chicago where the murder rate is soaring and ask a Black mother how she feels about that statement.
The South Side of Chicago is a pretty small sample size.
inner city Detroit, St Louis, New York, LA, Houston, Take your pick..
You are listing the exceptions to the rule.
“United States is that relative to the rest of the world”
Relatively, it still holds true, although I don’t think he claimed perfection.
I’ve never settled down in a foreign country (I’m from the U.S.), but I have been abroad for months at a time to several different places. I’ll just say, I don’t feel the quite the same way as Mark. He seems to think we all have inflated egos. Sounds to me like he discovered his own once he spent time in other countries. (Is this a list aimed at the younger, pre-living-overseas Mark?)
Of course America does have a lot going for it and so our opinion of our own country may be a bit more inflated than the average around the world. But I just don’t think on average we are quite so ego-centric as he makes us sound.
Let’s compare American cultural context to Europe for a moment. In Europe (like most places in the world) there are lots of different countries on close proximity to each other. They have no choice but to be more familiar with their foreign next-door neighbors. This just isn’t part of life in America for the most part, so that’s a reason we will quite naturally look at the world through the lenses we receive from the environment we grow up in. But the cultural context in Europe is itself an environment bestowing its own set of lenses on folks who grow up in it. That doesn’t mean their perspective is better than ours. We can all benefit by learning to see things from different perspectives.
I also need to say that I think Mark is too dismissive of America’s role in the emergence of modern democracy. But I won’t go deeper into that, cuz Mark himself didn’t say very much.
Having said all of this, Mark does point out some real problems in American society. I think maybe the best thing to realize is that we have become quite risk averse. Mark was getting at this in talking about how we like comfort. I think it also ties into our approach to health care. And I’m no historian, but it might be that the fall of other great societies in history that Mark was talking about also ran into problems due to becoming overly risk averse. But certainly we are not risk averse in every way, and many Americans still are very brave, adventurous, etc. I think we still have enough fortitude to keep the U.S. a very great, if not the greatest, nation on this planet for a good while into the future.
All comment threads are cesspools, not just yours. Now, excuse me while I go bathe in bleach.
Mark ~~ Congrats on the new readership. I’m here as a result of stumbling upon your America article. I do believe that most of the US citizens that did agree with you tended to be from people who have traveled. I don’t think it is mostly those with educations or money either. There is another aspect you should consider. I saw many pro comments posted from ex or current military, who not only travel but due to the nature of their work, spend years living in other countries. Many not only agreed with you but will be having their military pension checks mailed elsewhere once they retire. These are experienced travelers who have actually lived in places like Germany, England & the Orient. They know… understand & agree. I had to chuckle when reading some of the more outrageous posts. Some came with their wiki quotes & sounded like trailer park trash that have never been out past the county line. I don’t hate America, I grew up just north of Boston. I’ve lived in other countries & understand your experience completely. Peace~EFT4MeDebi
I’m sorry so many people are so closed minded. One of the best things about the U.S. is free speech. You were just stating your opinion and they shouldn’t have stooped to name calling. Personally, I thought your article was very insightful and it was pretty brave of you to post it.
Yep. There was a lot in this series that i needed to hear and a lot that i needed to share. Had to be tough to do though the distance likely helped
I didn’t read the comments. I watch them on the streets.
Thanks for your bravery, your truth and for allowing yourself and others to be human. I loved especially the bit about emotions. Spent a great deal of life with this one as my companion. Never got that about us. As I look down the page, the first little red line under recent posts is
M Radio Episode #1: How to Manage Your Emotions just above the link for this article. Excellent. I’ll visit that next 
Sorry you’ve been emotionally dredged through the rocks over this. Price to pay and all that I suppose. But for those like me (and I’m certain that there were more than a meager few) thanks for saying, reminding intervening or whatever so that we could at least share through our connections to show that we get it.
Self actualization doesn’t come from publishing lists of what is wrong with others. Communication is a two way street – you’re putting out self-righteous harangues, so that’s what you’ll get back.
I really enjoyed the piece, and felt your follow up was just as clear, self effacing and easy to read.
I’m a 50 year old woman, US citizen, who’s traveled around Europe several times.
I agree with just about everything you wrote, and you wrote it well.
I also agree that the experience is markedly different for women traveling alone vs. men, but any intelligent person would take into account that you were writing a PERSONAL essay from your own point of view as a male.
tl;dr – haters gonna hate.
But thanks for giving a measured response instead of descending into the mud pit.
I’ve traveled a fair amount, not as much as you, and largely agree with your conclusions. I wish all Americans could have the opportunity to spend two weeks abroad and see just how much we live in a bubble.
I thought the America article was spot on and common sense. It’s all obvious stuff that everyone knows and I don’t think you were saying anything radical or over-generalized. There are a lot of zombies out there who need awakening.
I found your American article and the follow-up article to be insightful (for the most part- there are always exceptions and you have to love the people who constantly feel the need to point that out.) And even though I am an untraveled American who is guilty for more than 1 of the 10 things you posted in your last article, I still found it pretty amusing and true. I know the heat will blow over, but either away, it’s one of those situations where you have to let people say what they want. Often times it seems (from my personal experience) many people aren’t happy unless they are ridiculing something or someone. =]
OMG……I admire your strength and honesty. And I understand the pressure you are under. Seeing all these comments, many of them supportive but most of them a personal attack on you makes me want to cry. Cry over our world and the hate that is growing out of proportion. This is why we have wars all over the world. People cant let anyone else have a different view ( specially in politics) without getting nasty with hits under the belt……. why can’t we respect one another?
Lots of what you said I agree with….some of it I don’t, but I respect your opinion. That is your right as a human to have one and it doesn’t have to be the same as mine for me to accept it
I stick to my camera, words seems to upset people if the words doesn’t match their thinking.
Keep on keeping on, my friend. PS. Will you marry me?!
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Mark, thanks for the original post and for the follow-up. May I offer you something in return?
In my early teens I read Will Cuppy’s THE DECLINE AND FALL OF PRACTICALLY EVERYBODY, in which he writes “‘My country, right or wrong’ is like ‘My mother, drunk or sober’.” Noncritical patriotism is a dead end, eh? It was a new one on me. But… forty years later, critical patriotism is the way to go. Yes, I live outside the USA. Yes, I’ve acquired citizenship where I now live… and no, I’m not going back to the USA, to a country that’s become (or was it always?) a loud, greedy bully.
Dipso mother, dipso brother. Same insight. It needs said every once in a while. Thanks for being the bloke, this go-round, to have done the needful.
First time listener, first time caller! I liked the article and shared it on my FB page and have friends who like it, too. I haven’t traveled much out of the US, and am not a foreigner, but still nodded along with just about everything you said. I’ve often criticized my own country for not emphasizing foreign language programs early and thought that our general condescension to all “outsiders” while expecting everyone to cater to and adore us a bit hypocritical? Unrealistic? Just plain weird? Anywho, thanks.
I commented earlier today on your previous post about United States Americans. I am very glad that you wrote this follow-up piece. It was very helpful to hear that you care about the comments and responded respectfully.
Re: “Aussie/English… Love hate relationship …A LOT of Aussies and English chimed in saying that they, in fact, do not love Americans.”
This is not so much the people and citizens of these places so much as the governments which are deeply tightly aligned and I suppose indirectly the fourth dubious secret/not-so-secret stooge in this faithful alliance would in fact be Israel. There are some lesser pawns in the alliance like Chile (also overthrown by the CIA same the Aussie govt in the 70s). The thing you may be picking up on then is the similar values – despite the UK rejection of guns (fully sworn to in the US and Aus) and the Aussie rejection of the caste system (Fully adapted as Upper Class versus the vulgar lower class they enjoy watching on COPS in the US and UK). Otherwise they are deeply aligned in most other values and beliefs and follow the same lies sold by the same media puppet show.
As much as English/Aussie commenters deny it, I’ve been a hit for being an American when I go to both countries… but I think it’s primarily the accent and the shared pop-culture. Just like Americans LOVE a good British or Aussie accent, the same seems to work in reverse.
Funny how your strongly negative remarks were from people quoting what they “knew” from history rather than direct experience.
My experience is similar. I have lived for months and years in foreign countries, traveled as locals do on foot, buses, trains, even by thumb if necessary. Spoke in their language. Even taught children and adults in a foreign language. But when discussing foreign countries, invariably reasonable well educated people are aghast at the results of my discussions abroad, get angry with me, and tell me I should move (out of US). One book club member (I have sworn off this doofus activity forever) even swore at me that I was a “liar” and making all these observations and conversations up. Of course she never ventured out of a first class cruise guide group with 20 other rich Americanos and their paid local help.
So ignorance is not bliss for those who debate with us world travelers.
I am glad to have found your blog, because other than my spouse who has been with me often on travels (though doesn’t know what the heck I am talking about until the cab driver starts yelling and grabs a knife and I say, he hates the US and Bush, let’s get the heck out of here!) most people from the US travel in bubbles with little or no contact with real people or life where they are traveling.
Okay Annie, I want to do this the right way, but it might be hard.
“…traveled as locals do on foot, buses, trains, even by thumb if necessary.”
As opposed to Americans who travel by hovercraft?
Lots of self praise followed by…”Of course she never ventured out of a first class cruise guide group with 20 other rich Americanos and their paid local help.”
Do you actually know that, or is it just another way of investing more in your already inflated ego? You even take a jab at your own spouse for not being as linguistically nimble as you, before saying “most people from the US travel in bubbles with little or no contact with real people or life where they are traveling.”
Luckily, you’re nothing like most people from the US, you’re special and you know it!
“So ignorance is not bliss for those who debate with us world travelers.”
Yep, perhaps you knot it a bit too well. I believe there is a strong chance that people react negatively to you as a human personality and not because of your travels. You seem to treat your travels like many “American world travelers” and slum divers do; currency used to invest in the idea of yourself as opposed to real personal transformation. I myself feel uncomfortable listing off my “travelers credentials” because one of the big things I’ve gotten over the years is a strong revulsion to making everything about me. You write a couple of paragraphs on a blog and it’s essentially “I am so special, I am so amazing, I’m a self-appointed world traveler, I really know what’s going on, book club.” Yeah, that’s right, book club. Book club?
If you speak anything like you write, people are going to react negatively to you. If you think anything like you write, you’ve committed the greatest travelers sin of all; remaining 100 per cent within your own cultural paradigm and using superficial observational shavings taken from your travelers to further reinforce that self-centered “look at me the special little butterfly” mode of American living. You can come back and tell me how you don’t have a big ego at all but that would be a waste of time; anything you write on the defensive will be too self-conscious to be true. Rather I’d say, if anything I said is true, fix it, and if I’m wrong, just be happy that once again, you were the smartest guy in the (chat) room.
@Annie — A line to note that “WE” does not speak for me.
The time recorded for his / her post: 0655. Maybe after another cup of coffee the post’s content would have differed. Let’s hope so; and… keep travelling, keep observing, keep sharing.
Well Alex, I was giving Annie my perspective on how their post came off to me. I believe their was ample evidence whereby negative reactions to Annie were in fact not prompted by Annie’s perceived sense of authentic worldliness, but other factors. If I am wrong, that is for Annie to know. Look at it as constructive criticism, though perhaps I could have been less caustic.
And the time listed is not my time zone as I did not wake up until after 10 today. However, you were correct about the cup of coffee, I was just starting my first one while writing the post. Perhaps I could have been kinder in tone. Perceptive, even if accidentally.
**grin** Blind hog finds acorn! Me being perceptive, that is. Film at ten.
“We” — huh? “Travel by hovercraft”? My point is — few Americans travel with people that live in the countries they visit, talk to them, or stay as visitors in their homes. Especially when it comes to language, they rarely interact with non-English speaking locals rather than paid servants as guides or hotel staff. As for “self praise”, are you jealous about someone who travels out of the bubble? I don’t consider speaking with foreign nationals anything special, my first language is French, so what? (now don’t go off on French people, I am a 3rd generation American with Canadian ancestry.) As far as the lady who never ventured from her cruise groups, yes, I do know that for a fact. We had long discussions about her trips and observations. She was very condescending to people overseas, especially in poorer countries.
My traveling overseas was mostly 1. for work, 2. for education for work and 3. to visit friends. No butterfly here. Some of us travel because we need to know what is going on in other countries, not for entertainment purposes.
So where have you traveled? What languages do you speak? Have you ever spoken to someone from a non-English speaking country in their non-English language, someone who doesn’t work for a hotel, cruise line or guide service? They often have a different opinions from those working in the tourist industry. That was the point being made.
The rest of your rant was nasty and personal and typical of folks who don’t know two bits about other countries. If you think that is my ego speaking you are wrong; it’s my experience with people like you -
Your attempt at redirection has only reinforced the original comments I made about you based on your egocentric post.
“As for “self praise”, are you jealous about someone who travels out of the bubble?”
No, I’m a journalist and former NGO worker who has lived outside of the bubble for a decade. I won’t give more details because I don’t like talking about myself and I have no problem with people who stay inside of the bubble. The problem is your arrogance.
“my first language is French, so what? (now don’t go off on French people, I am a 3rd generation American with Canadian ancestry.)”
Do you see your defensive manner of interacting as well as your blanket assumptions? You inform me that you speak French and then say “so what?” as if you needed to set up your own straw man. That is, you wanted to talk more about yourself and vindicate some point which I never made (that I would or do have any issue with you speaking French.) Why would I go off on French people? You’re being presumptuous again.
“Some of us travel because we need to know what is going on in other countries, not for entertainment purposes.”
Have you noticed how you tend to use to plural, as if you are speaking for anyone other than yourself? Imagine that, someone who travels for something other than entertainment purposes. You blew my mind there, do all of you “world travelers” feel that way?
“The rest of your rant was nasty and personal and typical of folks who don’t know two bits about other countries. If you think that is my ego speaking you are wrong; it’s my experience with people like you.”
Actually, it is your ego speaking, there is nothing but your ego speaking as you are, once again, arrogant, overbearing and flat out wrong. What is wholly ironic is that I am in fact the exact opposite of what you imagined, and thus was annoyed by your post for the exact opposite reason that you imagined. Because I am not monolingual, nor am I a casual traveler, but a regional expert who has been enmeshed in a different civilization for so long, I am used to your type, and your type annoys me. You see, I go back every couple of years to the small dirt road that was once home and I feel more comfortable with people who have barely batted an eyelash out of the county then arrogant and assuming travelers such as yourself. Stop trying to be better than other people. Most people live in bubbles, it’s called a tribe, or a family, or a community, and few people venture outside of it, American or otherwise. There is nothing wrong with that. It is a choice, there is no one path to happiness in this life. Stop with your endless assumptions and condescension. Let go of your ego. Peace.
Well stated and courageous reflection, Mark, you’ve earned my readership… Will follow you on twitter BTW I am @seantm Thanks again for sharing.
haha I’m not sure which article I like better now! Both are fantastic. Criticism is expected, no one likes knowing the truth. You write well; and for some reason (perhaps cuz me too I’ve travelled extensively) I see why “generalising” is allowed. I just shared your article on my FB hoping my gringo friends won’t get offended :S. Keep it up amigo.
Interesting reading, Mark. We need people like you who can stand outside themselves and their culture and shine a light inward to the darker sections. You have an enviable ability to sift through criticisms and change your opinions if the data indicate that you should. You are certainly not the “stereotypical” American – thank goodness.
Those of us who have spent time immersed in cultures other than the one in which we were born tend, in the end, to see people as individuals who can be assigned to personality groups that transcend culture and nationality. In general, the higher the education the more tolerant the person about cultural and racial differences and the more socially threatened of poverty stricken the individual the more prone they are to be prejudiced about other groups of people so that they can feel better that they are at least superior to some others. The worst cases of negative national stereotypes are almost always confined to those at the bottom of the educational scrapheap. In this same heap you will also find some of the most loving and caring people on earth. To a significant extent, personality transcends other factors.
Simply enjoyed reading your response to the original article (10 things Americans don’t know)… I also thank the commentors and you for recognizing the priviledge that you posess being young, white, and male in the world. Traveled two weeks in Australia and lived three 3 months in Guatemala, and as a young, Black female it’s been interesting… It’s also interesting when you consider even Oprah being denied into a French store (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4618227.stm). I value experiences and people more than money, and I would love to go to Ireland and see their rolling green hills someday, and hopefully I can. It just can be a little tricky going by myself as a Black woman. Best!!!
Mark, I stumbled on your blog while on vacation in France. I must say, you “saved” my vacation! Prior to reading your blog I had been in Paris a couple of weeks. I have travelled extensively throughout the world and never considered or even thought about what I project in the world about myself let alone as an American. Your blog make me think and consider. Thank you for your observations. You have a new fan here.
I think you’re spot on. I’ve traveled to Canada, Spain, England, France, Ireland, Mexico, Honduras, and Belize, and I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said so far. Keep up the good work and I hope the U.S. benefits from it.
Mike
Mark: I thoroughly enjoyed both the original article and the followup. As what is termed here in the US a “Third Culture Kid” (meaning I spent my growing up years as an ‘American’ outside the US), I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m actually very jealous of the fact that you have found a way to make a living in South America! “Live local; think global” has always been a catchphrase for me. Don’t let the haters get you down; keep up the good work!!
Mark… will you marry me??
Maybe if it were legal.
My first ever comment on a blog post. I am an American and I have lived and worked outside the U.S. for the last 2.5 years. I work in an international environment with more than 60 different countries represented, including many from Muslim countries and the ones we have invaded and/or bombed (or liberated, depending on your point of view). I travel to and work in developing countries on a regular basis, including East Africa.
When I first started my job, I was worried about being an American (there are only two of us here) and how my colleagues and students might judge me. I was worried about my country’s recent politics/wars, and how people might see Americans based on our exported media and culture, which don’t represent me. One of the most beautiful things I learned was that most people interact on an individual basis, and most people spare me the judgement of being American. Students and colleagues from Afghanistan, Oman, Iraq, said to me, “Don’t worry, we know that people are different than governments” and gave me a lot of appreciation for the teaching I was doing.
Another thing I have learned since moving is that it is not straightforward to judge my own country and other countries. When I was in the US, being a proper liberal, I thought that the US was terrible in many respects – our divisive politics (I still think this), heath care, education, gun violence etc. Now that I find that it is much more nuanced that this. Though I live in Europe, I liked the healthcare better in the US (since I was privileged to have it) and it was cheaper for me. But I love living in a society that won’t accept not covering everyone. I wouldn’t want to give up this societal value if I were to move back. In education, it is true that our primary and secondary educational systems lag behind, and Americans (US Americans that is) are known as being pretty ignorant. On the other hand, we have terrific universities and graduate schools, and many international students long to go there.
Still on the topic of education — As I teach students from all over the world, the various ways that students relate to their educations varies a lot with culture. For example, do students question their teachers or treat them as gods who know everything? In some places in the world, students aren’t able to ask questions. I found that the American school system places more emphasis on thinking than knowing facts, and American students in Universities in this country have the reputation for not knowing anything, but being able to be creative. When I see the broad scope in education style around the world, I find myself appreciative of my own American education, even though it is lacking in many things that are done better elsewhere, like world history and culture and math skills. Don’t get me wrong: we do need to drastically improve our education in the U.S., so I am not advocating leaving it alone. It’s just that reality is really somewhere between “it sucks” and “it rocks” and it may in fact behoove us to look at what qualities make it great (creative) and which need to be improved (knowledge) so we don’t go around breaking it even more.
Another thing that is much more complex than I understand — and am still working out — is my (and US American’s in general) sense of personal space, affection, and openness in friendships. Many people in my host country have told me how much easier it is to make friends in the U.S. than here. People who have lived in the US say they miss it for that reason. Living here, I also have that experience – it’s very difficult in this society to feel a member of a social group. Still, in the US, the personal space is bigger, and people are greeted with a handshake. Here, people are greeted with kisses. Is this kissing affection real? I find the kisses to be more superficial even though you might see it as more affectionate than a handshake. Once you’re friends with someone in the US, you might hug them — and this I find to be more close and more affectionate than the kisses. In Africa and even in some Muslim communities, it is very common for men to walk holding hands as they talk to one another. I don’t know enough about these cultures to know whether this is a demonstration of real affection or friendship, or whether it is just something you do, like kissing an acquaintance here. In short, affection, warmth of relationships, and friendship are not necessarily related to one another in the same way in different cultures.
Anyway, I liked your post, Mark in that it made me think about my own experience living and working abroad and in a place with so many different cultures mixed together. (Hence my ramble; sorry.) You said it was broad generalizations, which I largely agree with — but I found it a bit shallow on these more nuanced points, I guess. (Maybe it was just the tone which was a bit sarcastic/aggressive, and therefore not one that I could easily share with my US-centric family, though I wanted to.) I also find myself very frustrated with my family and US folks at home who blindly believe the ‘we are the greatest country in the world’ when there is so little knowledge or curiosity to actually assess that statement. And anyway, who cares who is the greatest? This I dont’ understand.) I guess I’m distressed by our own inability to have a decent conversation on either side as it prevents us from making informed decisions and really addressing our problems.
Thanks for your post, — I’ll keep visiting.
-Anonymous
PS. Of course I do put up with stereotypes about the US, and one of the most annoying ones is that our beer and coffee suck!
Even though I didn’t agree with all “10 things” you listed, I commend you for being brave enough to state your opinions on a sensitive topic and for handling the unfair (and downright mean) criticism with such grace. Write on!
I very much enjoyed the original “10 things most Americans…” article and think it needed to be said. Please don’t be discouraged by the dimly lit knee-jerk reactionaries out there, they represent a tiny percentage, but sometimes have the loudest voice. It’s sad because the comprehension skills are well below par and so when they try to argue with you, they aren’t even arguing facts, just their clouded perception of what they think you meant.
Keep up the good work!!! Love your writing and thought provoking posts.
When I was planning to take my 6 yr old son to Belgium for vacation, friends and family (Americans every one) actually told me to be careful, that foreigners hate Americans, that I would get pick-pocketed or robbed or who knows what. Mostly, I think it’s the “who knows what”. That expression of fear about the unknown and unfamiliar (hell, most people didn’t even know who, what, or where Belgium was). I can say quite honestly that I had never felt more comfortable. I am not a city person, but Brussels, Liege, Oostende, Brugge, everywhere I went I felt safe, welcome, and warmly received. We stayed in an Arab neighborhood in Brussels, where the hostel was located. The people there were equally kind and courteous, despite the fact that we had extra trouble communicating. Flying back to the US of A, on the other hand…was lke entering a police state. Yes, this was post 9-11, but several years after. Still, I was enveloped in what was almost a reverse culture shock. Yep, the cities were dirty, the people rude and armed…home again. I miss Belgium. The food, the beer (!), the architecture, the culture, the history, and the people (and did I mention the beer?!) I’m too poor to travel much outside the US, (hell, I’m too poor to travel much inside it either) but I dream of the day I break free, even for a couple of weeks, and again experience the joys of not being in America. I’m not knocking it, necessarily, but like fashion, some things just fit people better than others and America is getting just a bit too tight around the waist for me.
Belgium is one of the cleanest and friendliest countries I’ve ever been. Amazing that people thought that.
That’s a funny thing about America at times, familiarity gives comfort, even when that which we know is far more dangerous. I used to live in the East Saint Louis area, and pulling up to a stop light after dark could be a serious threat to your health. That’s true of a lot of large American cities at night, we fear getting killed by driving down the wrong street. Part of it is paranoia, part of it is justified. There are places worse than America in this regard, South Africa definitely comes to mind. But other OECD countries (excluding Mexico whose violence the States have fueled) don’t live with that fear of random violence.
Nor are the police such uptight, power obsessed assholes. American cops can be horrendous, type-A personalities who are far more obsessed with asserting their egos than just helping people get on with their day when shit goes down. In Russia, cops are much more prone to small scale corruption than America for example, but they let a lot of shit go. If two guys get into a fist fight and no one is seriously hurt, the cops will break them up and send them each on their way. There is none of this command presence, gun drawn, “Get on the ground now” quasi-military operation to take down two guys duking it out over wounded pride. There’s an idea that, yeah, sometimes dudes get pissed at each other and they fight, it doesn’t have to be a legal issue. American airport security is monstrous, like entering a prison, I’ve seen enhanced security all over the world post 9/11, but they don’t criminalize their passengers. Lot’s of Americans take themselves too seriously and are so frustrated with their existence they use every opportunity to powertrip that life affords them. People have no idea how much more relaxing it is to go to a place with far less violence, far more relaxed security forces, with, really, far more freedom. You just feel much more free in other places than you do in America. Ironic, but there really isn’t another word for it.
When I read your post of ’10 things Americans…”, and the subsequent comments, I felt such a strong urge to dive right in & engage in every discussion (since I have a very strong opinion on some aspects of the USA & Americans). But I remembered your post on ’30 days without politics & sports’ & realized that it would be completely useless for me & thus a waste of time (not to mention all the stress & stomach ulcers I would create). I managed to stay out of it & I am very proud of myself! Thanks for that article, it was good practice for me.
I love India, it smells like shit, but I still love it.
I love America, for completely different reasons, but I love it… I think most American’s are stupid, but I still love the place.
I like you’re blog, it’s really well written and interesting..but in my own opinion, I reckon you’re a bit of a dick..
Wow. You are my hero, no kidding here. I wish you were running for a president. Please write more: it made my day and made me feel that I am neither crazy nor alone in my opinions.
You seemed to have missed the whole point. Ignore the name callers. What you cannot ignore is your lack of experience. You might live in an apartment instead of staying in a hotel, but that does not mean people are going to be real with you. They might not seem impressed that you are American because they probably do not care about you other than a passing interest. They might not want to tell you that they hate your nation of birth out of politeness. When I see a foreigner from a country I do not like to be sent to, I dont tell them about it.
When I read the headline of this I thought I was going to get facts not a warped and insular opinion. You really ought to re-think your whole approach.
well, if everyone else gets to i wanna…yes, you are all of the above and so i congratulate you…the majors are hard enough but pulling in the minors, well, that’s an accomplishment…
with that said, the article was spot on…as a country we are all that you pointed out and then some…we’ve been getting nutbag crazier over the last couple of decades and i have a feeling we haven’t seen the bottom yet…keep up the good work, enjoy meeting other peoples of the world, but above all try to set an example so that when/if i ever get there they won’t want to beat me or shoot me…by the time i get there i’ll be hella thirsty and am gonna be in need of some free spirits and beer
Enjoy, cheers, peace
OF COURSE we can use the word “Amercians” to refer to ourselves. The USA is the only country that actually has “America” in its name.
“The Aussie/English-American love/hate relationship.”
I admit I was a little affronted by this, being a proud Australian that has spent a lot of time offshore and decided home was best after all. But if you look at our television, wholesale importation of music, film and other cultural elements what other conclusion could you draw? Perfectly reasonable. But don’t discount the fact that you may have experienced attention and affection because people heard the accent and assumed you were Canadian
I liked your original article a lot. I think you got so much criticism because admitting there is a problem is a very hard step. To bring up something completely unrelated this is why Linux has completely failed to win any significant consumer market share despite being free – not because it isn’t great technology, but because whenever anyone has a problem with it the fans say “RTFM, idiot!” – not wonder how it could become more usable. Nobody likes to admit there is a problem with something they love.
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I’m glad to see you acknowledge that a woman’s experience may be different. There are plenty of countries around the world where you may feel safe and welcomed and a woman would not and should not. I am American, I love America, but I know it’s not perfect. In fact, a lot of us are pretty stupid. You mentioned Russia and WWII. One of my pet peeves is WWII jokes at the French’s expense. People are ignorant. I am planning on heading to France next year for the 70th anniversary of Normandy. I’m learning French. I have to admit, I’m worried the French will hate me because I’m American. Okay. Stream of consciousness comments over.
I’ve been to France many times. I’ve always been treated well. Outside of Paris people will appreciate your efforts to speak French. People may criticize American foreign policy. I’ve never had anyone treat me rudely just because I was American.