If you’re familiar with self help then you may have heard the term “validation” thrown around.
Validation is the information we receive about our identities or who we are as a person. We all adopt identities and beliefs about ourselves and then we seek validation to reinforce and prove those identities and beliefs to ourselves. We all do it. And there’s nothing necessarily wrong with it.
I often conceptualize that there are two different kinds of social validation:
- External Validation – The approval and admiration of others. The pursuit of external validation or the need for external validation is often classified in self help as “the ego” or “ego gratification” or being “egocentric.” It’s worth noting that this definition of ego has little to do with Freud’s original definition.
External validation is unpredictable and temporary. Buying that new car feels amazing, but within a few weeks you get used to it and you don’t feel so special anymore. Meeting that pretty girl on the train was exciting, especially when you got to brag to your friends about it, but she doesn’t call you back and now you feel like crap.
- Internal Validation – The approval and admiration of yourself. Analogous to the popular psychological term self esteem. Developing internal validation requires defining values and goals for oneself and then following through on them. External results matter less than fidelity to one’s own values can perceptions.
For instance, “I’m not going to go crazy about girls who don’t call me back anymore,” and then sticking to that builds internal validation. Or deciding, “I’m going to practice guitar every day and then join a band,” and then doing it also builds internal validation. These things validate your chosen identity. You are meeting your own standards and approval regardless of the external circumstances.
You often see advice that tells you to “stop seeking validation” but the fact is that it’s impossible to not seek validation. Even the monk in the cave in the mountains for nine years is internally validating his adopted identity of being the monk who went to the cave in the mountains to meditate.
Validation is inevitable and in most cases it’s completely healthy.
But, people with a lot of shame or people who have dealt with emotional traumas in their past can have an inordinate need for validation. They’re insecure about their identities; therefore need to constantly reinforce their value and worthiness.
What most people don’t realize is that an excessive need for validation is the symptom of a deeper problem, not the problem itself. Most people also don’t realize that excessive internal validation can be just as destructive and miserable as excessive external validation.
An excessive need for external validation makes you a drama queen. You know the type. People who are constantly trying to impress others, who always want to be the center of attention, who are always bragging about something while trying to look like they’re not bragging.
Being dependent on external validation also means these people are emotionally unstable and have a tendency to create drama. When people are approving them or making them feel superior, everything is great. But as soon as the tides turn and they’re handed a shit-sandwich, they can’t handle it. The girl not calling them back becomes a life crisis. Being yelled at by their boss sends them into a tailspin of drinking and punching bathroom walls.
People who become fixated on external validation from others generally have little internal validation. This is because the unpredictability of the external validation demands all of their time and attention to maintain. This is also because they likely come from a background or from parents who based their lives around the approval of others, so they’ve never learned how to approve or satisfy their own needs.
It also doesn’t help that consumer culture markets to people’s desire for external validation. See: every beer commercial ever made.
An excessive need for internal validation makes you narcissistic. Some people fall on the other end of the spectrum. Interestingly, these people tend to be far more successful and confident throughout their lives.
Whereas external validation junkies are desperate for others to like them, internal validation junkies couldn’t give a shit, as long as they’re meeting their own personal goals and aims. Think the bank executive who floods the market with bogus credit default swaps to hit his desired bonuses or the advertiser who lies to people to make more sales. They’re unconcerned with the social feedback coming back to them as long as they hit their internal values and goals of making more money, being more clever, being more successful.
To maintain their high demand for internal validation, internal validation junkies often become experts at rationalizing away negative social feedback that may possibly threaten their self-perception. A man may continue pursuing a woman despite her resistance and rejections, trying to manipulate her and cajole her into sleeping with him, only to reinforce his view of himself as a man who is attractive and gets laid. He starts believe that women don’t resist his advances because they don’t like them, but because women in general are irrational and bitchy.
But like the narcissists they are, when the internal validation junkie is met with undeniable evidence that contradicts his self image, he explodes with anger. The facade of his self-perception he’s spent so much time keeping up comes crashing down and he feels just as worthless and miserable as he did before.
Shuffling the Chairs On the Deck of the Titanic
For validation junkies, the line between internal and external is often blurry, or just non-existent. The heartless executive obsessed with his own power may turn around and buy himself 15 cars and a yacht to make his employees jealous. The womanizer who feels worthless if he’s not getting attention or affection from women will often develop warped misogynistic beliefs to continue reinforcing his self-perceptions and make him feel better about himself.
A lot of self help and personal growth material out there merely recommends people replace one form of validation with another. You see it in almost every strand of self improvement: emotional, spiritual, even financial. They are all telling you to either get rid of your need for external validation and validate yourself more instead; or they’re telling you to validate yourself less and instead seek the approval of others more.
- Too emotionally attached to all of your possessions and what people think of you? Then “kill your ego”, understand that your own perceptions shape reality, that you can “manifest” reality simply by willing it hard enough. Go sit in a room and stare at a wall and think about yourself for days on end until you start caring about what you think of yourself more than what others think of you.
- A lot of religions or spiritually-motivated advice advises people to get rid of their own self-conception and instead dedicate all of their time and energy to other people and external signals of approval.
- T at The Rawness wrote a brilliant break down about how pick up advice basically advises men with codependency issues (excessive need for external validation) to develop narcissistic tendencies (excessive need for internal validation).
- A lot of business or make money advice teaches that everyone is responsible for themselves and that you deserve whatever you make by being more creative or industrious (think Dan Kennedy).
Classic example of “wisdom” that merely replaces unhealthy external validation with unhealthy internal validation: i.e., it’s not your fault people don’t like you.
Rearranging where one gets their validation doesn’t deal with the root problem: the excessive need for it. Until the underlying self-acceptance and insecurity is dealt with, these people will continue to be validation junkies.
But because many people change by switching where they derive their excessive need for validation, they perceive themselves to have improved and changed. Likely their external life situation has changed as well. Maybe people like them more or they make more money, or they get laid now. But their ultimate life satisfaction will not change in the long-term. It will soon just be something else that is bothering them.
Other people try to get rid of their need for validation altogether. They try to be desire-less or completely at ease with all stimuli that hits their senses. But our need for validation is innate. This approach suppresses our need for validation into our unconscious, where it can be even more dangerous.
We all want to be liked, to feel smart and cool and superior at times. This is normal and healthy. As long as it’s met in such a way that doesn’t compromise your internal values or autonomy, then it’s OK.
We all want to like ourselves, to feel good about ourselves, to feel accomplished and capable. As long as we meet this in an honest way, without distorting our perceptions or manipulating others to achieve it, then it’s OK.
The key is achieving a healthy balance between the two, with an excess of neither. Then maintain awareness of your validation needs and then accept them. That’s all.
Get your dating life handled. Become an attractive man once and for all, without faking it or pretending to be someone you’re not.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty has been referred to as the best book in the field by many, and has received five-star reviews from all over the world.
Beautiful Mark. Like everything else in life, balance is key. The equilibrium of the “yin and the yang” is where the sweet spot of life is.
Good writing, Mark.Isn’t a banker who sells crap-credits to hit his desired bonuses not after external validation as well? He wants an external outcome, aka making a bigger bonus, to feel good about himself.
@Tim85 For sure… there’s often overlap. A better example might be a banker who is FIRED for flooding the market with crap securities and then blames the market for buying the stupid shit he sold in the first place.
This is the best write up I’ve ever read about this issue. I’ve been battling internal vs external validation for around 12 months now; as someone who suffers from an extreme need for external validation. This article clarifies the ideas of internal and external validation so much for me. Real eye opener even after reading your Models book a couple times. Thanks Mark.
I usually agree with 99% of the psych-based stuff you write but I’m not completely with you here. I feel like you’re defining internal validation in a slightly distorted way and then shining a bad light on it. IMO, external validation is what’s responsible for all the bad thought-processes you’re talking about – it’s just that people seek external validation in different ways. A lot of the “internal validation behaviours” you are explaining (like making money at the expense of others or pursuing a woman who isn’t interested) come from too strongly basing an internal sense of self-worth on the results of the external world. That’s not internal validation.
“…internal validation junkies couldn’t give a shit, as long as they’re meeting their own personal goals and aims.”
I guess I just don’t see this as an unhealthy mindset. It can lead to bad results if your goals and aims are misdirected, but I’d blame that on other unhealthy beliefs.
@ZachObront I think what Mark is getting at is that a balance must be maintained between regard for others’ needs and desires and regard for your own. The only way to figure out which one to follow in a certain situation is based on your beliefs and values, which again, need to maintain balance. So knowing what one’s values are, and why one has those values, is just as important as knowing how to live in accordance with said values.
@ZachObront OK, here’s an example of a person who is internally validated despite negative results.
“My boss just fired me. He never did understand me. He never understood that the work I was doing was better than what he asked for. I think he was jealous of my abilities. I don’t mind not having a job. Some times being the best means you have to be ignored by others. My unemployment is going to run out soon, but it’s OK, I’ve made the most of it. My wife thinks spending so much of it on partying was a waste, but she doesn’t understand that you have to live in the moment. I’m alive now, may as well enjoy it now, right?”
@postmasculine I see where you’re coming from, but I don’t think the problem is their internal validations. It’s two things:
1) We disagree with their value judgments. Not giving a shit about being unemployed and spending the last of your money partying and pissing off your wife are bad things, right?
2) The phrasing implicitly suggests that the speaker doesn’t really believe them either. For example, he didn’t choose to leave his job – he was fired (external) and then reacted. If he’d said “My boss seemed jealous of my abilities so I decided to leave my job. I’m not interested in working right now – I’ve been stressed for years and I’m going to give myself some time to not give a shit. My wife doesn’t understand this, but I’ve thought it out and I’m fine with that. It’s my life.”
Maybe we still disagree with the decisions – but that’s real internal validation. Doing what you want for your own reasons. Reacting to external circumstances going against you by justifying them is narcissistic and I’d argue it’s something different (T’s reply is an interesting take).
@ZachObront Yes, but internal validation means validating yourself despite external circumstances… my example was to show you that this can be deleterious… a balance must be achieved by recognizing external circumstances and internal values (which is what your example does).
There are some people who just warp things to support their own beliefs about themselves no matter what happens.
@postmasculine Gotcha. I think I’ve got the external stuff so built in that I have trouble seeing it. But you’re right. The radical self-honesty that should be a prerequisite for internal validation obviously requires an external world consistent with those beliefs. Thanks for the clarification.
@postmasculine @ZachObront I see your point here. I guess it’s just a matter of perspective. To me, if a person is reacting against a negative external circumstance by rationalizing it away, minimizing it, avoiding it, denying it, overcompensating against it, all to preserve his ego, he’s still using dysfunctional coping mechanisms to deal with external circumstances.
Narcissism has two ego-boosting mechanisms. It’s not just about playing up what’s good, it’s also about tearing down what you think is bad. So if you have something good happen to you and you brag about it or make the person who gave you external validation into something heroic so as to make the positive external validation seem more important, you are reframing external validation in such a way as to give you a form of pseudo-internal validation. Similarly, if you have something bad happen to you and you rationalize it away or make the person who gave you the negative external circumstance seem like a loser so as to make the rejection seem less important, you are still reframing external validation in such a way as to give you a form of pseudo-internal validation.
Someone who TRULY felt internal validation would not feel the need to reframe negative external circumstances into self-flattering interpretations in order to save face. They wouldn’t need to avoid the negative feedback, or argue it down, or rationalize it away, or minimize it, or tear down the person who gave them the negative external feedback. They could face the negative feedback head on and process it objectively, knowing that whether the negative feedback is true or false doesn’t change their worth or identity. The narcissist who has to keep reframing all negatives into positives is still defined by externals and the proof is in his need to always react and rehabilitate them.
@T_AKA_Ricky @postmasculine Maybe the problem is that the majority of real world examples of internal validation overlap with the external, and the internal validation Mark is talking about is at attempt to rectify the differences.
Fired from your job and your response is that you’re so awesome and your boss is just jealous? You’re using narcissistic excuses to avoid bringing your self-image about your value as an employee down to the level where your boss seems to value it. This isn’t much different than a codependent who refuses to bring his self-image as a romantic partner up to match the external stimuli from a girl who loves him.
Fired from your job and you admit to yourself that it hurts and brings you farther from your personal goals, but that your worth as a human being doesn’t just come from your boss’s opinion of you? This is internal validation – without lying to yourself to bridge the gap between your self-perception and the outside world.
Internal validation doesn’t necessarily require pumping your own tires. It just means deriving your worth as a human being from something inside yourself.
Zach and T_AKA_Ricky, you guys make some good points here. I believe the key to having a healthy balance in internal validation is to be “real and honest” about who you are as a unique person. If your boss fires you from your job for whatever reason. Let’s say you are not really suited for the position. I believe it is important to face the feelings of hurt you have over the loss of the job and learn from it, then move on to some other job that you are better suited for.
Being narcissistic in your response to your boss firing you is nothing more than another vain attempt to cover one’s lack of internal validation. You are still placing your sense of value in what another person thinks of you. A person who has a strong sense of his own personal identity and a healthy internal validation will not feel the need to react to such negative external circumstances such as being fired from a job.
Perhaps the boss is justified in firing you or not isn’t the real issue — the real issue is “how you respond” to the negative circumstance, is what truly reveals what you believe about yourself and the strength of your internal validation. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth does speak.
Other than that, Mark I appreciate your above article. You write very clear and well on the most part. Thanks man!
@T_AKA_Ricky @postmasculine @ZachObront Take us to school, guys.
Mark, you know I love your stuff, but I’m going to have to slightly disagree here. While I agree with the overall sentiment of the post, I am going to have to disagree with some of the details, and may even write a response post.
I just want to point out, I don’t believe narcissists are chasing internal validation. I think both codependents and narcissists are BOTH chasing external validation as a route to or a substitute for internal validation. What I mean by that is that rather than generating internal validation themselves, from the inside-out, which is what true internal validation is, their route to generating internal validation is through collecting external validation. Or sometimes they don’t care about having internal validation at all, external is enough for them.
The difference is that codependents want their validation from people they think are above them, and if they don’t get it from those people, they convince themselves that those people didn’t give it because they were too good for them. Narcissists on the other hand want it from people who are below them, and believe that those who don’t give it to them didn’t do it because they are too inferior to appreciate them. It’s actually a little more involved than that, but for the purposes of this comment that’s my current take.
@T_AKA_Ricky This is a really interesting way to describe it. The problem a lot of psychologists are running into right now is that they’re unsure of how to differentiate between high self esteem and narcissism. What they do find though, is that narcissists will distort their perceptions of external results in order to conform for their internal need to validate themselves.
So let’s say everyone at work hates them for doing something douchey, the narcissist will convince himself that it’s because they’re jealous or that they’re incapable of understanding his genius.
In my mind, this is an example of POOR internal validation despite negative external results.
<blockquote>
So let’s say everyone at work hates them for doing something douchey, the narcissist will convince himself that it’s because they’re jealous or that they’re incapable of understanding his genius.
In my mind, this is an example of POOR internal validation despite negative external results.
</blockquote>
I think we’re largely in agreement over the general phenomenon happening but just disagree on specific definitions.
For me, both the narcissist and codependent have poor internal validation based on external results. The codependent has his own ideal image, that as the person who is the ultimate unappreciated sacrificer, the ultimate whipping boy. That is his psychological “payoff” or reward. One of the most counterintuitive aspects of psychology is the idea that a reward/payoff doesn’t have to be pleasurable. A reward/payoff can be painful. “Reward” and “pleasure” are two different things, which is why a lot of scientists dislike how dopamine is being called in the mainstream press a “pleasure” hormone rather than a “reward’ hormone. Rewards can be intensely painful or uncomfortable, which is why masochism exists.
An example is that guy Scott in your forums. He complains that he is such a low, unloved life form. Yet he behaves in ways that eventually drive people to reject him and abuse him out of frustration. This is his “payoff.” He can now say “See, I always end up rejected. I really am the worst thing on earth!”
Even though according to general logic this is not an ego validation, by his private logic, it totally is. Just like the narcissist reframes all experiences into a positive ego validation “They can’t appreciate my genuis,” the codependent reframes all experiences into what seems like negative ego validation to “normal” people, but is actually a positive ego validation according to HIS private logic: “No one can ever love a loser like me.”
Both are the same mechanism: taking externals and reframing them in such a way as to affirm your preferred self-view. The difference is that for the narcissist the preferred self-view is one of superiority, for the codependent it’s one of inferiority.
@T_AKA_Ricky That’s interesting. Yeah, it’s different models to look at the same thing. I’m not going to disagree with it. The dopamine thing is particularly interesting.
so what’s the solution in your eyes then mark, especially for the externally validated person
@lambnyc Mark posted http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-1/ in this article. It’s a 5 or 6 part series. I’m half way through it and it’s a real eye opener for me.
@lambnyc A balance and awareness between the two… we all need both to be healthy and happy.
It seems to me that it’s about being brutally aware of your own true identity (flaws and strengths), and internally validating from a place of absolute honesty.
This has to come from a place of self compassion (not necessarily self acceptance) or you will not be honest with yourself in relation to your identity in any case – Hence flawed in pursuit of meaningful internal validation.
Does this mean that people on internally validated extreme of the spectrum, despite being ‘unbalanced’, can be very attractive to women, since they would be (on the surface) very non-needy and highly invested in his opinion of himself instead of opinion of others? It seems like a narcissist would possess high amounts of these two qualities, which is defined as the core of an attractive man in your book.
@inthemiddle Narcissistic people traditionally do better with the opposite sex… although they attract people with equally low opinions of themselves.
@postmasculine @inthemiddle Right on! So true, which is a big catch-22.
Hey Mark,
I think I made the argument to you in Brazil that no form of validation is intrinsically better or worse than another. Internal validation is no better or worse than external validation and one form of validation is no better or worse than another (money, power, sex, respect, love…). As I said then, I do think validation is an absolute human necessity.
I also think there’s another layer to this subject.
The more unresolved emotional baggage a person has the more likely that the form in which they seek validation will be unsatisfying for them and create problems for others.
Someone who is super needy may need to be a billionaire, have a hundred sex partners, have people fawn over him or have dozens of people express their love in order to feel validated (and never will really feel validated). Moreover they’ll engage in all kinds of detrimental behavior to manipulate people and circumstances to achieve those outcomes.
In contrast, someone who has little emotional baggage and so low neediness may be satisfied with enough money to live comfortably, enough autonomy to manage their own work activities or a single lover who loves and respects them.
To put it more simply, picture a person with low self-esteem and a person with high self-esteem hanging out with friends at a bar. The person with low self-esteem needs his friends to constantly affirm how much they like him so he tells jokes all the time and has to be the life of the party. He comes across as try-hard and his friends always find mildly annoying. The person with high self-esteem is happy just to be hanging out with buddies with whom he shares mutual respect. He needs nothing more than their company to feel validated.
So, I think more than seeking balance between internal and external validation, it’s important to develop self-esteem, so that whatever form of validation we seek, we do it in ways that are likely to be satisfying for ourselves and have a positive impact on the people around us as well.
@MarkFourman I wouldn’t refer to it as self esteem, because a narcissistic person exhibits many of the same traits as a high self esteem person.
The difference that I list in the article is a level of shame or feeling of unworthiness… some may classify that as self esteem, although the proper psych usage doesn’t. But this underlying level of shame or self-loathing is what drives the quantity of validation we seek. The trick is not get rid of the validation but to reduce the underlying shame.
As for different validations being no better or worse than the others, I agree. Although there are some caveats there that I may leave for another day.
@postmasculine Sorry, I realized that I misread part of your post and deleted my comment before I saw you responded.
OK, if that’s the technical definition of self-esteem, then I’d agree with you.
From the Mandria Healing perspective, things other than shame and self-loathing can drive unhealthy needs for validation (whether internal or external). Basically any unmet emotional need when younger can lead to a unhealthy neediness for validation later in life (unmet needs for love, nurturing, safety, whatever). So long as those wounds are active (whether consciously or not) then they’ll drive an unhealthy need for validation when we’re adults.
So I think the key for all of us is recognizing when the need for validation is unhealthy (whether internal or external) and dealing with whatever is driving that.
Hey mark
I understand what you are saying. A narcissist is someone who thinks highly of themself regardless of what others think. They only perceive their own validation without taking what others perceive into account. Thus having an excessive internal validation. People with an external need for validation take only what others think about them to calculate their own value.
I love this article because you really explained the difference and the importance of balance AND awareness of both internal and external validation. And It really relates to what I’ve been going through lately.
But aren’t most of us “ok” as you wrote very well recently?
The question is: what is balanced? And maybe our perception of ‘balanced’ may sway from culture to culture.
I’m sure people are fluid and have moments of being more internally or externally validated.
I agree about the PUC ‘community’ – it’s incredible how much influence they abused..though as life is a journey, don’t we all eventually find our own inner keel? Achieving inner peace and wisdom may take years and years along life’s path…
@GetIntoEnglish The easy/short answer is “too much” is anything that is clearly harming your well-being.
How you define that and where you draw the line is very complicated though and would probably require another 5,000 words, haha…
@postmasculine@GetIntoEnglish
GetIntoEnglish postmasculine I agree that the key question is defining balance. Most people flow between periods of greater internal / external validation. And most people also have expressions of both internal / external validation as well.
For instance, I’d say that I have little desire for external validation; but, I to like to share excitement of <insert exciting thing here> with friends. But it would be a lie to say that I don’t want them to be happy for me. I don’t “need” them to be happy for me; we’re friends–that’s what friends do. I think this is healthy and balanced.
I’d also say I’m internally validated in most of my goals; and, healthy in this regard. But, my ex might say I’m too focused on achievement / ambition; and, that I always “have to be doing something to improve myself.” Is it harming my well being because we broke up? Or not harming my well being because we’re both happier now? Or is the break up not harming but her point that I’m “too driven” indicative of a deeper problem? Alright, getting personal–I can take that up with my therapist.
But the point remains: **how does one define balance?** Does the continuum of balance change based on how self-aware someone is? Does it change given the culture / social conditions one was raised in / lives in / etc? Is balance a function of feelings of self-worth? ETC
@postmasculine @GetIntoEnglish I see what you’re getting at, but it comes off a little circular. “We all need validation, but needing validation is a sign that something’s wrong. You need balance.” Which begs the question, what is balance?
Hi Mark,
You introduced me to a new way of looking at this that’s quite interesting. I know what you’re saying, I can relate. Recently I’ve realised I’m a perfectionist.
A lot of times, I feel discontent with my own efforts. I know my family, my friends and my girl are really proud of me and respect me for my accomplishments (and I must admit, that still feels good). But personally, I still feel like I’m letting myself down, because I feel I could’ve done better.
As you can see from my example, it still feels good to me when others think highly of me. But I’m also very invested in my own dreams, ambitions and values. So I think the concepts of internal and external validation are only truly separated in theory. In real life it’s always some mix of the two. Like you said basically. It’s just a matter of balancing them (again, like you said – fuck, you know your shit haha).
Hi Mark you say this:
Other people try to get rid of their need for validation altogether. They try to be desire-less or completely at ease with all stimuli that hits their senses. But our need for validation is innate. This approach suppresses our need for validation into our unconscious, where it can be even more dangerous.
Having practised and studied Buddhism for many years, I think it is possible to reduce the need for validation. Perhaps it is not possible to eliminate it entirely, but it is possible to reduce it to levels that are extremely low. What do you think of this?
@bobbobbyroberts I agree with that. I go on to say in the article:
“But, people with a lot of shame or people who have dealt with emotional traumas in their past can have an inordinate need for validation. They’re insecure about their identities; therefore need to constantly reinforce their value and worthiness.
What most people don’t realize is that an excessive need for validation is the symptom of a deeper problem, not the problem itself. “
@postmasculine @bobbobbyroberts
Mark, your article is flawed in that your “internal validation” examples are actually external validation.
“Think the bank executive who floods the market with bogus credit default swaps to hit his desired bonuses or the advertiser who lies to people to make more sales. They’re unconcerned with the social feedback coming back to them as long as they hit their internal values and goals of making more money, being more clever, being more successful.”
The bank executive is trying to achieve personal goals, but he’s doing it to get his bonuses, which is an external outcome, therefore external validation, and he’s doing it with a lack of integrity because he’s cheating and tricking others. Same with the advertiser, he’s doing it to get sales and cheating others, for an EXTERNAL OUTCOME.
“To maintain their high demand for internal validation, internal validation junkies often become experts at rationalizing away negative social feedback that may possibly threaten their self-perception. A man may continue pursuing a woman despite her resistance and rejections, trying to manipulate her and cajole her into sleeping with him, only to reinforce his view of himself as a man who is attractive and gets laid. He starts believe that women don’t resist his advances because they don’t like them, but because women in general are irrational and bitchy.
But like the narcissists they are, when the internal validation junkie is met with undeniable evidence that contradicts his self image, he explodes with anger. The facade of his self-perception he’s spent so much time keeping up comes crashing down and he feels just as worthless and miserable as he did before.”
- They rationalize away negative social feedback that may threaten their self-perception because their self-perception is based on EXTERNAL factors.
“Whereas external validation junkies are desperate for others to like them, internal validation junkies couldn’t give a shit, as long as they’re meeting their own personal goals and aims.”
But wait, if internal validation junkies couldn’t give a shit about other people liking them, then why do they need to rationalize away negative social feedback about them? I thought they didn’t give a shit?
You contradict yourself here badly.
You also use another external example of validation as “internal validation”. The man wants to coerce the woman into sleeping with him so he can reinforce the view of himself that he’s an attractive man who gets laid. BOTH external validators. Being attractive is an external view of others on yourself, and if you think you NEED to be attractive you’re basing that on what other people think of you (external). Getting laid is a dependent external outcome, hence external validation.
True internal validation comes from pushing one’s boundaries INTERNALLY. Saying, if I push my fears here then i’ll experience power, if i express myself internally fully and my deepest things about myself to people, and they reciprocate, i’ll experience CONNECTION. Not for any “sales” or “bonuses” or any EXTERNAL results. It’s all about pushing one’s own INNER boundaries, which when done, results in powerful inner feelings of control and validation, without having to SUBVERT other people’s well-being for our own ends, which is what your examples of extreme internal validation are.
I think you should do some more research on this or edit this as you’re misleading people. You’re using examples of external validation for internal validation and not stating TRUE internal validation. I understand if you didn’t know this before but now that you do you should be more careful with this information as you have thousands of men reading your blog thinking that they NEED to have some measure of external validation. Bullshit. That’s just the ego and it’s not needed.
True internal validation comes from pushing through internal boundaries and not for any external results whatsoever, and all the feelings a human being wants to feel can be felt through the actions they take and the way they engage their life, no cars or fancy clothing or a shitload of women sleeping with you is needed.
I really think you should reconsider this article.
@Zachy1 @bobbobbyroberts Your examples aren’t really any different than mine. The experience of connection can only happen as a result of external feedback of information, same with feeling powerful. No matter what your internal benchmark is, you need external stimulus to measure it and achieve it.
That’s the whole point of the article: you can’t really experience these validations without one another, and to attempt to means suppressing one aspect of your personal needs.
@postmasculine @bobbobbyroberts But if you base it off of you taking action regardless of the result, then the result doesn’t matter. It’s not outcome dependent. I’m not referring to just external stimulus in general when i refer to external validation. I’m referring to basing your actions on the result being external, and not just on you taking action regardless of what’s reciprocated (internal validation). The stimulus can be WHATEVER, but internal validation comes from the sake of taking action for the sake of taking action.
@postmasculine @bobbobbyroberts You can’t confuse external stimuli and external validation.
Yeah there’s stimuli out there, but it’s how you interpret and react to it that matters i.e. base your self worth off of it or base your self worth on your own actions that you can control regardless of what stimuli is thrown back at you.
@Zachy1 @bobbobbyroberts ”Yeah there’s stimuli out there, but it’s how you interpret and react to it that matters i.e. base your self worth off of it or base your self worth on your own actions that you can control regardless of what stimuli is thrown back at you.”
Exactly, which is why our examples aren’t really any different. The bank manager doesn’t care what actions he causes as long as he reaches his own personal benchmarks. The player doesn’t care if she’s rejecting him, all he cares about are his personal goals…
So Facebook is a peek inside the minds of people who need constant external validation. I had to stop myself from being the brooding intellectual as sad as it sounds, but i’m past that. As much as I love the internet I really think it has a negative effect on people’s perception and worth. I make music, but with the huge online community I cant help but to think that at times I have made music to impress folks. I have kinda steered away from why I started in the first place. This article has got me thinking that American culture and society is really going through some drastic changes and no one seems to really notice or too few. It’s like were so closed off from each other emotionally , but the need to still get some sort of reaction is still present so we try and impress one another and have countless ulterior motives that get in the way of forming good relationships with people. Lets set the material and who’s better then who aside, smoke a dooby and lets all be friends.
Great but I don’t see the part where you mention the people who don’t get enough of either.
AFC is too externally validated; PUA is too internally validated, both to a fault. The real, healthy man is somewhere in between. I’m right there, but more oscillating into the two spectra, desiring more consistency.