This idea has been brooding within me for a while now, and its implications actually depress me a little bit. It’s mainly in regards to relationships, but I’ll post a follow up article about its implications to dating that I’ve been noticing since being single again.

The Isolation Paradox is the idea that the more you develop yourself — intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, physically — the more you narrow the selection of suitable long-term partners for yourself. On the flip side, the more you expand the amount of people interested IN YOU as a long-term partner.

I’ve been noticing the last 6-12 months that it’s becoming exceedingly difficult to find a woman who can stimulate me emotionally: when I’ve already been through so many relationships and situations; physically: when I’ve been with so many women, my standards become more and more unreasonable; and intellectually: well, not to be a dick, but I’ve always found it hard to find a woman (or person) who can stimulate me intellectually.

The paradox here is this: the inexperienced guy starts out and very few women have serious interest in him. But the few who do are the same women who he has serious long-term interests in (due to his sole reliance on his lifestyle screening for women). On the other extreme, the highly developed individual (male or female) has the opposite problem: EVERYBODY is interested in them, but they find it impossible to find someone who stimulates them on multiple levels.

In an effort to make themselves as attractive and valuable to as many people as possible, they completely isolate themselves in their lack of suitable long-term partners.

The more time that goes on, the more women I date and the more I work on myself, the more I notice this effect. And I fear that there may be a breaking point where it’s just impossible to find any woman who I find suitable at all in the long-term.

Edit: This post erupted a flurry of comments, many of them very insightful. Instead of constantly responding to all of them in the comments section, I’ll address many of the more poignant ones here.

“Isn’t part of successfully being with someone long term not about finding the perfect, flawless person, but in finding someone who’s more or less what you’re looking for, and then accepting that no one will be totally perfect, and making peace with their flaws?

That attitude is something that comes from within. If you have this sense that no one is good enough for you, then the answer isn’t in some perfect woman out there, it’s in changing your view of things.”

Yes to the first paragraph, no to the second. You’re absolutely right that there’s no “flawless” woman out there for us. The defining aspect of love is that we accept and even cherish a person’s flaws.

What I’m referring to is actually what the first commenter gets at: fulfilling emotional needs. The more developed one comes, the more sophisticated ones emotional needs are, and by definition, the rarer it is to find somebody who meets them.

To give you an example. Most newbies, and this was true for myself at one time, have a large need for validation in their relationships when they’re inexperienced. That’s why almost any semi-attractive girl that comes along makes them feel like a king. They become easily attached, often without investigating the depth of compatibility they have with her. But as time goes on, the more our identity accepts that we are loved by women, the less validation we look for from them — or at least, the validation changes. These days, it’s far more important that I feel understood by a woman than simply cared for by her. I feel like she needs to understand my motivations and dreams and passions and empathize with them. It’s very easy to find a woman who thinks the world of me these days. It’s very hard to find one who understands my world.

You also mentioned the BradP quote. I once criticized him for complaining that he couldn’t find “cool” girls anymore. You’re totally right and got me there. I have two responses to that, though: 1) I made that comment when I was happily in a relationship, and 2) I have no problem ever finding COOL women. I find cool women all the time. Every night. In fact, I feel like the better my game gets, the more I come to appreciate how cool each individual girl is. What I DO find more and more difficult is a woman who fulfills my emotional needs. If that’s what Brad meant, then I was unfair to criticize him. But if he really meant that he can never find a cool girl anymore, then he’s just shallow and I stand by that.

The other thing this post made me think of was that idea that for men, getting into a serious, long-term relationship is more a frame of mind than anything to do with a girl. It’s that saying, “Women are ready to settle down when they feel they’ve found the right guy. For men, the ‘right girl’ is whoever they’re with when they’re finally decide they want to settle down”

Fantastic point. This may very well be true.

“For example, if we take self-development as a measure of success, then let’s take a look at some giants of self-help; Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Tony Robbins, Steve Covey, Brian Tracey…”

One thing I’ve always found interesting is that rock stars, porn stars, movie stars, etc., ALWAYS end up married and monogamous. But at the same time, “self-development” doesn’t necessarily equate emotional fulfillment or having emotional needs met. Half those people you listed have dark streaks and strong criticisms against their character. Even Gandhi.

But whoever said I was probably being a little dramatic with my last line is right. There’s no such thing as a person who is 100% emotionally stable, 100% baggage-free, 100% non-validation-seeking, and 100% happy at all times. Therefore, there’s always somebody for everybody, no matter how developed they become. But that’s the nature of the paradox… the more developed and experienced you become, the rarer and rarer it is to get your needs met while your ability to meet other people’s sexual and emotional needs expands and expands.

Think of someone like Jay-Z or Brad Pitt. On the one hand, half the women in the country would go to bed with them and marry them at the drop of a hat. But on the other hand, Brad Pitt’s selection of suitable women is really limited to super models, movie stars and other extremely high status people. Before you argue this, ask yourself, how many women out there can really even grasp the world he lives in? Very few. Really, only other famous people, people in the stratosphere of social status can even begin to relate to him emotionally. Now, before we all cry Brad a river, that’s an extremely small selection of women… maybe 100-200 worldwide. Maybe that’s why most stars end up with other stars or living somewhat lonely lives?

As for the rest of your comment… I feel like you’re making my point for me. You’re naming nothing but celebrity and public figure after celebrity and public figure to meet a certain criteria. Honestly, how many women walking around in a club in your average US city fit even one of those criteria? It’s very rare.

Look, there are women out there SOMEWHERE for me. I suppose the melancholy tone of the article was the fact that five years ago, I would have been happy to date any decent-looking girl I met who gave me the time of day. Now, I’ll spend a whole night in a venue and not meet one I’m interested in seeing regularly. In a strange way, that’s a loss. Despite everything I’ve gained, somehow I’ve lost something. I wouldn’t trade it back. I’m not complaining. But just pointing it out.

“I think it would help if you could narrow this down a bit. Can you give an example of an intellectual interest of yours that girls should share, but don’t? I’ve found that few girls share my intellectual interests, but I don’t disqualify them for that.”

She doesn’t have to share my intellectual interests. She just needs to keep up with me intellectually. And I mean, she doesn’t even have to be a super-genius or anything. She just has to have something going on upstairs. If you haven’t noticed by now, I’m constantly intellectualizing shit. She needs to be able to handle that and at least converse.

Finding a girl with similar hobbies is a superficial perk. What’s important is that she sees the world similarly to me, can understand and appreciate what I’m interested in, even if she doesn’t share the same interest.

What’s more unique about me though — and this isn’t true about all guys — is that I link intelligence with sexual attraction. This especially has become true the more time has gone on. Stupid girls sexually turn me off. Intelligent girls sexually turn me on. Just how I’m wired.

At the end of the day (and this is directed at both Lou and Eros), all other things equal, every guy will happily trade up in the looks department. It’s more of a question of how much trouble are you willing to go through to find quality women who are also extremely beautiful, and/or what other qualities are you willing to sacrifice?

Like I said earlier, as I get older, the more I value things such as intelligence, personality, energy, humor, etc. and the less I value looks (despite my standards going up). And I imagine one day it’ll become a non-issue. But as for now… I’m entering my prime as a male. I’d like to try and find the best of all worlds if possible.

And finally…

“A guy I very much respect once said, the goal of pu/self development should be that you are able to give yourself everything you need and all you need your partner for is sex, because it’s more fun with two people involved.”

In theory, yes, we would all like to be emotionally self-sufficient. But in practice, I think this is a very anti-social and terrible way to look at things. Sex is actually pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things. I’d rather have a woman I’m madly in love with and be crippled (hello Sean Stephenson) than have all the sex I want and never feel anything with the women I fuck.

Edit 2: This post raised quite a bit of debate. It seemed to touch a nerve in a lot of people. Both in the comments here, through email, and even on other blogs. Many were very insightful. Others got on my case — which is cool, I appreciate criticism as long as it’s respectful. They ranged from calling me weird, to “calling out” my inner game, to saying I should quit all of this stuff or maybe that I’m depressed.

On the contrary, I’m happier right now than I’ve been in a long time. I feel great. And any melancholy tone in my last couple posts were theoretical in nature. As far as the other criticisms, I’m not too surprised as I get similar criticisms often when I talk about long-term relationships. I said it twice, but it didn’t seem to make a difference, but the last two posts were SPECIFICALLY in regards to long-term relationships, not picking up women.

Yes, worrying about “meeting emotional needs” or “feeling isolated” in the context of picking up women are definitely not good things. But in the context of long-term relationships, they’re valid and important. The rules change in relationships. But for some reason, anytime I get too deep into girlfriends, a lot of men turn a deaf ear to what I’m saying.

I suppose that’s the last clarification that I want to make.

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37 Responses to The Isolation Paradox

  1. Samurai says:

    Your posts get more and more interesting – well done.

    I totally agree. I have not had a great deal of relationships but those which I did get into were where shared interests and physical attraction meant my narrow radar was being met. Or to say I have chosen not to get into relationships.

    I think you can always find women but will you ever find someone who really gets you going and really meets your needs!? Not sure. I find very physical attractive women to be very boring as all their life they’ve had all they wanted just through their looks and expect men to treat them in a certain way – like a princess – not like a normal human being as I would see it. Then with some girls who are more intellectual there’s almost the opposite.

    It’s not bad to suffer this paradox. Get as well paid a job as you would like, work out to get a body you are happy with and read lots of books. Not only are you more attractive to women but the social life and confidence comes will be there too.

    Keep up the good work on the blog posts!

  2. Kevin says:

    I could be totally off with this. Just throwing it out there.

    I get the sense that maybe this isn’t so much about whether girls can objectively meet a standard or not.

    Isn’t part of successfully being with someone long term not about finding the perfect, flawless person, but in finding someone who’s more or less what you’re looking for, and then accepting that no one will be totally perfect, and making peace with their flaws?

    That attitude is something that comes from within. If you have this sense that no one is good enough for you, then the answer isn’t in some perfect woman out there, it’s in changing your view of things.

    Also, not to try to sound harsh or anything, but the last line of your post came off as a bit melodramatic to me. I’ve found that when people get dramatic like that about something in there lives, it’s often a sign that how they feel is more a passing phase (e.g., they get all “woe is me” in the moment because they’re in a temporary funk)…

  3. Eros says:

    I think this is a case of which priorities you have for the woman you want to end up with. Take a look at some very successful people (by their own definitions), and you won’t find many of them have ended up single.

    For example, if we take self-development as a measure of success, then let’s take a look at some giants of self-help; Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Tony Robbins, Steve Covey, Brian Tracey, and my personal favourite, Steve Pavlina. All these guys have been married, some of them twice. From what I’ve read, there is no reason to suggest that these relationships were guys settling because they couldn’t find anyone at their own level. The women they married may not have been beautiful, highly financially successful, etc, but they still were amazing and special to those men.

    The same case can go for politically successful men, such as Barack Obama, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi (he was celibate, but still married). These men all achieved inspirational things, that their wives didn’t come close to matching. Again, there is nothing to suggest this was settling on the men’s part. If you’ve read David Deida’s ‘Way of the Superior Man’ (which I’m guessing you have), you’ll remember how he talks about how a woman will constantly test her man, even when he has achieved great success. Deida uses the example of a man coming home to his wife with the news that he has made a million dollars, and with his wife being unfazed by this achievement, and criticizing him for forgetting some groceries.

    The point of this form of Memento Mori (come on Mr. Intellectually un-stimulable, you better not have to have googled that one) is that the woman’s role here is to keep her man grounded no matter what his achievements. To see the bigger picture. Now I don’t know if you subscribe to Deida’s views of feminine and masculine energy, personally he takes it too far for me, but he makes a good point. The women for the aforementioned men are not their to match the men in the areas of their success, but to complement them. If you see the feminine energy as being nurturing, caring, kind, etc, then for these men the women are the ying to the masculine yang of goal-setting and achieving, conquering and overcoming.

    Now let’s use one more example, that I think might be a bit more pertinent to you. Money as a measure of success. Take a look at Warren Buffet, Larry Ellison, and everyone’s favourite, Donald Trump. Larry Ellison has had four wives. Warren Buffet has not been in a functioning relationship since the 70’s. As for Donald Trump… try telling me that Melania Klauss is not a trophy wife. These men have valued money, looks, and social status in their lives, and it shows.

    There are holes to this argument. There are very successful business men who have had perfectly happy relationships. Buffet is famous for his frugality, and lack of expensive material possessions, so perhaps he doesn’t value money as much as the others. But I think as generalisations, the argument works.

    What do you value in a woman? You talk of wanting intellectual stimulation that no woman can provide you. Would Arundhati Roy, Susan Sontag, Simone de Beauvoir and Germaine Greer have left you unsatisfied in this area?

    Spiritually? Mother Teresa, Marianne Williamson, Alice Bailey, Linda Goodman.

    Physically? According to you, this should take about five minutes in NYC. Also, I’ll put Marianne Williamson in here, because in her day she was damn fine.

    Emotionally? Again, many of the women above fall into this category.

    Now I would never wish Germaine Greer on anyone’s poor soul, but there are women in all these categories who are far more successful than both you and I. You might have a great body, but Miranda Kerr’s is better. Yes you’re different genders, but hers is so good you can make that analysis.

    You might have reached spiritual enlightenment, but I bet there’s a female monk high up in the Wutai Shan mountains who achieved it first.

    You might be a member of Mensa, but so are Jodie Foster, Geena Davis, and bizarrely, Shakira. And Georgia Brown beat you there in terms of age.

    I think the whole Madonna-Whore complex that you’ve admitted to (no judgment, I’ve definitely got it too) is a good sign that there are many women more emotionally developed than you.

    I’m just going to call this one as I see it. I think you’re still obsessed with physical appearance, and that you probably won’t find a woman who can satisfy your desire to be intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, and physically stimulated until you can get past that. Everyone in the community talks about how Alpha Males don’t seek others approval, so they will date and sleep with anyone they want, because they aren’t looking for validation when they sleep with hot women. You allude to this in a post where you discussed how a friend of yours commented how a lot of instructors/gurus end up with a girl who isn’t really that hot. And that your last girlfriend was only a seven in your eyes.

    I’ve read every single blog post of yours since became a website. I started reading just before the transition from your old blog (I miss some of those LR’s man!), and recently I went back and took notes from every blog post on the site that I thought was worth reading (there were a lot), when you said that some of the content was going to be removed. I think for someone who has never met you, I have a pretty decent insight into your mind. Similarly, with Steve Pavlina (like I said, he’s my favourite), I’ve read hundreds of his blog posts. He’s also a pretty complex guy, but he’s even more open and honest than you, so I feel like I’ve got a decent insight into his mind as well.

    Intellectually, Spiritually, Physically, and Emotionally, Steve blows you out of the water. No offence, but the guy is 39 years old, and he’s been working on self-development since he was 20. He finished a four year degree in 1 and a half years. He’s written one of the best self-development books I’ve ever read, if not the best. He exercised 30 minutes daily, on top of yoga and other forms of exercise, for more than a year without missing a day. I’ve read testimonials from hundreds of people as to the incredible connections they’ve had with the guy upon meeting him. He’s sampled Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, etc, to build his own spiritual system. He covers all four of those bases you’ve put as your own standards.

    Google Erin Pavlina and Rachelle Fordyce. One is his ex-wife, and the other is his current girlfriend. Would either of these women rate highly enough physically to make your standards? If you’re curious as to the nature of his relationships with these women, have a bit of a search around his blog. You’ll find that with Erin he was married for 15 years, had kids, and maintains a friendship after an extremely harmonious divorce. With Rachelle he enjoys a loving relationship, that is intellectually, spiritually, emotionally, and physically stimulating (they participate in D/S). Rachelle, in my opinion and no doubt many other readers of your blog, is not a highly physically attractive woman. Neither is Erin.

    When Steve talks about relationships, I can tell that physical attractiveness plays a far distant fourth to the other three qualifiers that you’ve employed. I’ve never heard him use a rating scale.

    I respect and admire the transformation you’ve made in your life, especially with women. I recognise that I have years ahead of me to realise that kind of success in my self. Nevertheless, it seems to me that you’re still blind to your own obsession with physical beauty. You may have reached a level where you can date a ‘7’, and not feel that her looks matter to you in making that decision. What if the women I’ve mentioned above fulfilled all of your criteria in terms of intellectual, emotional capacity, and spiritual development? Would you date them, despite the fact that they are not even ‘7’s? Personally, I don’t know if I would, and that’s something I know I have to overcome.

    I await your reply!

  4. Entropy says:

    Holy shit… some seriously amazing comments here. Will need a day or two to read, digest and respond.

  5. Kevin says:

    Oh, one thing I forgot to add is I remember a while ago you were critiquing an article Brad P put up where he was complaining about not being able to find quality girls.

    A comment you made that stuck with me was that it seemed like he was on the ‘Community Hamster Wheel’ of constantly trying to get better and better girls. You also said something like, “Come on Brad, it’s not *that* hard to find a girl who’s good looking, and fairly smart and cool” (I’m paraphrasing from memory, but that’s the gist of it)

    This post’s complaint isn’t about the exact same thing, but the contrast between what you’re saying now, and what you said back then stood out to me.

    The other thing this post made me think of was that idea that for men, getting into a serious, long-term relationship is more a frame of mind than anything to do with a girl. It’s that saying, “Women are ready to settle down when they feel they’ve found the right guy. For men, the ‘right girl’ is whoever they’re with when they’re finally decide they want to settle down”

  6. Lou says:

    “…well, not to be dick, but I’ve always found it hard to find a girl (or person) who can stimulate me intellectually.”
    I think it would help if you could narrow this down a bit. Can you give an example of an intellectual interest of yours that girls should share, but don’t? I’ve found that few girls share my intellectual interests, but I don’t disqualify them for that. The smartest girl I know (by far) doesn’t read because she feels it’s a waste of time, better to experience life than dwell on the abstract. I guess when you’re a hot chick, like she is, a lot of what you can do beats reading a book, and she convinced me and changed my views on intellectuals.

    “Would you date them, despite the fact that they are not even ‘7’s? Personally, I don’t know if I would, and that’s something I know I have to overcome.”
    Overcome? Why?
    I have this argument with my PhD friends who want me to date their non-hot friends. Consider this; a truly intelligent woman knows that looks matter and that she has to maximize them to have the most options. Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’ve met several women who do this, they may not think that’s the way things should be, yet they know that’s how things are and play the game like the best. Granted, these hot and smart women are rarely single because every guy that meets them quickly realizes what gems they are and holds on to them for dear life, I know I have.

    “Judge me ONLY by the content of my character” is fine for a business partner to say, but not for the woman who will share my bed. The way you look is part of who you are and in some cases it’s the most important characteristic. They know we expect them to be hot, if they’re smart, they’ll deal with it and just be hot. And for most women under 35 it shouldn’t be that hard. Put Tolstoy down and pick up Treadmill instead.

    “…[guys’] gaze reminded you of where you were, which was exactly at the exact center of the fucking universe, young, hot women of privilege at the very peak of everything that was desirable, the very apex of all in life that was worth coveting. And who the hell wanted to sleep through that.”
    -“The Privileges”

  7. Eros says:

    @Lou, no offence my friend, but I think you and I are on two very different wavelengths.

    Some truly intelligent women know that looks matter and think ‘this isn’t fair but it’s the way it is’ and do their best to be as sexually attractive as their genes allow them to be. Other truly intelligent women know that looks matter to some men, but that there are equally desirable men out there who do not demand good looks in a partner. These women accept the results of their genes and find those men, choosing to focus on the things in life that matter to them more than being sexually attractive in the eyes of the average model-idolizing American man. Do not mistake this lack of obsession with looks with a disregard for personal appearance. These women may still focus on maintaining a good body, eating healthily, and developing personal fashion.

    There are men out there who are successful in many different ways; financially, intellectually, spiritually, etc, who do not value looks enough to place them as a priority in the women they look for. These men are not settling. These men do not suffer from self-esteem issues that prevent them from going for more beautiful women. These men truly value attributes such as being an emotionally healthy person, being well-read, having a positive contribution to the world. If you don’t believe these men exist, then you will never find them, and you will never be one. Perhaps being one of these men doesn’t matter to you, but I think it matters to Mark, and I know it does to me.

    Honestly, I hope the women that come into my life are beautiful both inside and out. But there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind as to which of the two is more important to me. If you googled either of the two female names I mentioned in my previous rant, you’ll probably agree with me that neither of these women would be deemed beautiful in the eyes of the average model-idolizing American man. There’s probably nothing they could ever do, besides drastic plastic surgery (hey that rhymes), to become that beautiful, so I don’t think your point about putting Tolstoy down and getting on the treadmill is valid.

    Basically, what I’m trying to say is that the majority of people are not highly attractive. The majority of people do not reach the physical standards that a guy who regularly sleeps with attractive women has. I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed, but when you walk into a bar or club, very few of the women in the bar are highly attractive. This is because even though many of the women in that bar are at the peak of their attractiveness (are in the best years of their life, are wearing the most flattering clothes, and have make-up on), they are still not that attractive. The fact is beautiful women are far between and few, and this is because most people are actually not that attractive, no matter how hard they try. Look at bridal photos (not ones in a bridal magazine obviously); are the women, supposedly the most beautiful they’ve ever been, even that gorgeous? Obviously if it’s your sister, lie through your teeth and say yes. Otherwise, no.

    When you walk into a bar, there is more likely to be 5 ‘6’s and 2 ‘9’s than the other way around. The question that I’m asking is, if it turned out that one of the ‘6’s was more interesting intellectually, spiritually, and emotionally, than anyone else in the bar, would you still be trying to take home one of the ‘9’s?

  8. ENC says:

    Granted, I don’t have much experience as I am just getting started with “getting girls”, but I’ll post my two cents anyway.

    A guy I very much respect once said, the goal of pu/self development should be that you are able to give yourself everything you need and all you need your partner for is sex, because it’s more fun with two people involved.

    If you are over that breaking point (if it even exists), then you could still settle for a non-perfect girl. What’s so bad about that? Find a cute girl, that stimulates you emotionally, and get your intellectual stimulation elsewhere.

  9. Urnes says:

    Wow, you are so right.

    While it is always a chore to find new women, I generally know within minutes to an hour how long and how the relationship will develop. I do not have a 100% close rate by any means, and more that a few quality women slip past me. I am not sure I am ever going to be satisfied with one woman either.

    I think the ones that slip past often pick up that I am a complete ‘player’. ENC did say something interesting that you should be the point that you only need the woman for sex. I rush into sex with women, not because I need the sex (I get way more than I need) but it is a filter. Lots of women are terrible in bed. I want to know right away so I can ‘next’ them.

  10. TheSwede says:

    Some great comments, and much has already been said, so I will say this:

    I understand what you are saying. Like, 100%. Makes perfect sense. As I’ve mentioned to you just the other week – I had a girl that I was EXTREMELY stimulated with, intellectually, emotionally, and physically – you talked about eventually “upgrading” and I agreed – it’s just going to be hard to top what I had, I think. Even in my semi-depression I’ve met a bunch of chicks but none so far reach the same levels.

    So, to make it short: fantastic post, totally understand, and do agree.

    Fucking women…… (said with love).

  11. Benjamin says:

    This ties into this situation that I keep having.

    I’ll meet a woman. Like her. Have a great first date, then move to the second one. Have sex. And then all of a sudden – poof – I would just like her to disappear from my living room ASAP. It’s bloody annoying. I end up looking like this complete player where I ‘got her in bed’ and then ditch her.

    While in fact, I would just really like to meet someone that I want to have sex with more than once and actually, I’d like to have a girlfriend to love and cherish. No need whatsoever anymore to be a vagrant player. But for some reason lately, once I’ve had sex with a girl once all the attraction disappears.

    I know, it’s a chase thing. The worst part is that before we bed each other, I’ll be thinking ‘Wow. This is a really great woman. I’d love to spend more time with her’. Maybe I should hold off sex to really cement that feeling but I don’t really think that’s the thing here. Whatever’s going to happen, will happen between two people.

    And is there actually a woman out there that isn’t going to turn me off at some point? I think it lies somewhere deep down inside. I was probably raped and let down horribly by my mum or something 🙂

  12. Entropy says:

    @Ben: Most guys have that to some extent at some point in their life I feel like. But when it becomes chronic, I think it signals a deeper emotional (inner game) issue. Fear of commitment, fear of vulnerability, etc. Speaking from experience here.

    Full follow up to comments coming later today.

    • Fluffy McGee says:

      “I’ll meet a woman. Like her. Have a great first date, then move to the second one. Have sex. And then all of a sudden – poof – I would just like her to disappear from my living room ASAP.”

      I always assumed it was a hormonal issue of some sort… since immediately after ejac your body has some major shifts in this area. I’m not an expert on what happens with your hormones at this point, but I’d bet it has something to do with the feelings you experience immediately afterwards.

  13. Reader says:

    Ok dude, I have been reading you for a while. I spent a lot of years in Boston and thats how I got to know your stuff.

    But I have to say man, I dont know what youre complaining about. You live an extraordinary lifestyle. I doubt youre extremely wealthy or anything like that, but you dont work a shit 9-5 and you basically get paid to go out.

    You mentioned “getting older”…youre not that old though right? Arent you like mid to late 20s? So much game left man, seriously.

    I have always liked that fact that your posts are well reasoned and thought out. But I honestly think you are thinking too much at this point. It sort of sounds like youre over pickup. Well if thats the case, then maybe you should shut it down for a while.

    This shit is FUN, man. Just a point, maybe if you are thinking more in terms of “emotional needs” then you just need a girlfriend and need to leave the game.

    I dont think anything you have said is unreasonable, however I have to say that as a reader I come here to hear stories about the game. Not saying that you have to give a shit about what I want, but Im just saying thats probably why most people read your stuff.

    Contrasting some of your recent posts to somebody like Sinn, I mean that guy is in 100% and doesnt show any signs of wavering or fatiguing. I sort of feel like if youre in, you gotta be in 100%, and if youre not, you gotta do like your boy Doc Holliday did and just hang it up and dont look back.

    One last point man, maybe you just need a change of pace. I moved to the West Coast from Boston and it was one of the best moves I ever made for a number of reasons.

  14. Eros says:

    Fuck, just had an enormous reply and then accidentally deleted it. Ok I’ll try to summarize. Edit: summarize fail.

    1. The reason I used celebrities/ public figures is because you and I don’t know each other. I can’t say ‘my friend Jack’, because you don’t know anything about Jack! But that’s ok; I think using public figures/celebrities is pointless, because how well do we really know them? They do have some purpose though; if you were surprised by Tiger Woods cheating, then obviously you lack the ability to analyse a person on the most basic level. Quick side note to the world: that should not have been a shock to you!

    2. As DFW says: what you worship defines your reality. The community worships beauty, not needing the approval of any woman, and being ‘self-sufficient’. If you spend enough time in it, you will inevitably adopt that mindset, at least to some degree. Guys like Brad P, whose whole life appears to be centred on PUA, is so defined by those beliefs that he cannot possibly see his own misogyny. I read his ‘diary of a PUA’ and in it he describes coming on a girl’s ass in an alleyway, and then laughs at how she doesn’t wipe the cum off before pulling up her pants and going back to her friends. If the fact that he would decide to tell the reader a detail like this, which can in no way have a positive effect on a guy’s game or mindset towards women, doesn’t disturb you, then you need to remind yourself ‘this is water’.

    3. If you do not believe that there are guys out there who would not trade up in the looks department, you will never find them, and you will never become one of them. These men are far and few between, but they do exist. They aren’t bugged by their wife of 20 or 30 or 40 years lack of hotness, and they probably would refuse to trade up in their looks department, because, and this will make all you seasoned pussy-crunchers vomit, ‘I love her the way she is’. My first girlfriend, the only girl I’ve ever loved, was only a ‘6’ or so, but I was perfectly happy with her the way she was. Now you can take the community viewpoint, and say that I was suffering from one-itus. You can argue that I was only happy with her looks because I didn’t believe in myself to get anyone better. Or you can say ‘this is water’, and see that some guys are truly happy with their girls. They DO NOT care about them being any hotter. Sure, if you offered for the next girl I fall in love with to look like Miranda Kerr, I would happily say yes. But while I was with the girl I was in love with, my response would have been ‘no, why the fuck are you asking me that? I want my girlfriend to look like herself, not Miranda Kerr’. Again; if you do not believe these guys exist, you will never find them, and you will never become one. You will meet these guys, but you will find reasons to burst that bubble. You will tell yourself that these guys are not truly happy, that they are settling, and that you know better. This is the attitude of the community in general. In our not so secret world we know best. Ours eyes have been opened to the reality of the AFC. We see men fawning over women and think ‘what a loser’. This happens so often that what eventually happens to us is that we develop the hammer and nail mindset. We see every non-community guy’s relationships with women as unsuccessful, and as proof of their beta-ness. And we always know the solution. So then when we finally do meet a guy who is in a loving relationship with a not so attractive woman, we look for reasons why he can’t really be satisfied. He has self-esteem issues. He’s self-deceiving. He needs our help!

    One more time, because I’m an insistent dickhead, but also because I really really believe this: If you do not believe these men exist, you will never find them and you will never be one of them.

    I don’t say this because I’m a know it all arsehole who thinks he knows better than you, but because I think you’re one of those guys out there fighting the good fight, and I really hope you come to agree with me.

    4. I don’t know about Steve Pavlina. To be honest, the guy seems so bulletproof it’s impossible to know exactly what to think of him. He’s mentioned the PUA community in the past, and he says he’s generally quite against it, for a few reasons. There are the obvious ones, like that it’s misogynistic, and that it’s full of bad advice for the majority of guys who don’t need to be sold all that crap to make small simple fixes to lead a successful love life. Nothing new there. His strongest point against it is that he favours direct communication with women, rather than going through a longwinded flirting process. This is an interesting point about the community, especially as people have begun to favour direct game recently, but again, I don’t think he has anything new to say on it.

    The thing is, when you reach a level of success like he has, there are inevitably going to be people trying to tear you down. Now perhaps what you’ve heard is true, and he does have confidence issues with women, or secretly desires to sleep with a whole lot of women, but thinks that would look bad to his readers.

    What I’m saying is that from reading his blog over many years, I’ve never sensed any incongruency with what he claims to desire with women. Of all the blogs I read, yours and his are the two that I trust the most. You both are open with a readers in a way that some other bloggers attempt to be, but don’t achieve, because they aren’t really willing to let their weaknesses show.

    When I read the post a while back about how you didn’t care that your girlfriend was a ‘7’, I sensed that wasn’t completely congruent with the truth. I’ve never felt that incongruency reading his blog. Don’t worry, I don’t think i’m some fucking sensai, it’s very easy to be completely mistaken over the internet.

    I think the only way to really figure out how legitimate a guy like Steve Pavlina is if you actually get to know them, or at the very least meet them in person. Which is exactly what I intend to do later this year, when I attend one of his workshops in Las Vegas. Now, like I said before, I don’t know exactly what to make of a guy like him. I’ve spent enough time in the community and on this earth to know that most people are easily sucked in by the claims of someone with a strong frame. I expect that there’ll be a lot of people who are there just looking for someone to follow. So I’ll be sure to bring a healthy dose of cynicism, and if you’d like to hear my opinions of him then, I’m sure they’ll be pretty strong as a result.

    On a final note, how much longer are you in Boston? I’m moving there in mid July, probably for about a year (I decided to come to the states, and despite it’s 3 awesome sports teams, and a couple of years of reading your blog, I only settled on it after rejecting 2 or 3 other cities). I’d love to get some one on one training before you leave, or if you return some time over that year. You still coach as much as I ever I assume.

    Ok, so I just reread your post for the third time before posting this, and I feel like I didn’t give you your due.

    “Like I said earlier, as I get older, the more I value things such as intelligence, personality, energy, humor, etc. and the less I value looks (despite my standards going up). And I imagine one day it’ll become a non-issue. But as for now… I’m entering my prime as a male. I’d like to try and find the best of all worlds if possible.”

    That’s fair enough. I won’t delete what I wrote above though, because I feel it’s something that needs to be said more.

    Also, I totally understand the whole desire to be understood issue. Honestly, the only women who have come close to truly understanding me were friends that I was never attracted to. I’ve always had high standards for my girlfriends, and I’m talking intellectually (triple degree student), physically (ex-cheerleader), and in terms of creative genius (Fine Arts degree). However, none of them properly understood my motivations, dreams, passions, etc, and I reached limits in my relationship with each of them because of that. That’s ok; I still think there are plenty of women out there who can do that for me one day. I just doubt I’ll find them in a bar at 2 am, and if I focus too much on the idea of them being beautiful as well as everything else, I’ll probably end up passing over some amazing women, who I only dismiss because of a part of my ego I never tried to get under my control.

  15. Entropy says:

    @Reader: I don’t want to seem like I’m crying about this or complaining about my life. As we say in the community, “this is a high-value problem.”

    But you’re right. I’m way over the “fuck 100 chicks and glorify it” phase of PUA. I left that phase behind about two years ago. It definitely has its place, but I haven’t been there in a long time, and the guys who stay there, in a sick way I kind of admire it, but I also don’t think it’s healthy in the long-term.

    As for hanging it up, I would have 1-2 years ago except two reasons: 1) it’s my job and livelihood, and 2) I really think the PUA community could go much further and is really in its infant stages of development. I’d like to be a part of bringing it to a more mature, healthier and happier realm of learning for men.

    @Eros: All solid points. I should clarify, I didn’t “hear” that about Steve, I’m just saying it could be true for all you know. I’ve never met Steve, and I’m sure he’s a phenomenal guy in person as well as on his blog. But you have to always, always remember, no one is bullet proof, and no matter how honest him or I are on our blogs, you’re still only getting a snippet of who we are.

    As far as coaching, I’m planning on being in Boston through September and am still coaching. Shoot me an email and we can talk about it.

  16. H3x says:

    I don’t have anything to add to this discussion but I just wanted to say that I admire both Entropy and the commentors for keeping things civil and respecting each other’s views. This is one of the few PUA sites I visit anymore due to the high quality of the content here. Thank you everyone.

  17. Prague says:

    Just to say I second what H3x. I REALLY appreciate this about your blog Entropy – and you have some really good respectful posters which add to what you write…

    Looks like I have a lot of catching up reading to do from this week!

  18. Honey says:

    If life is about self-development, it sounds like you might have more to learn by being a good partner to someone who isn’t your ideal, rather than someone who is. The gist I get from these two posts is that you’re looking for someone to make staying with them easy, and someone who affirms your worldview. That just seems a bit lazy to me.

    As someone who’s been with someone who meets all of my “must have” criteria for over 4 years (we are both liberal, atheist Mensans with advanced degrees, vegetarian, animal lovers who don’t want children – both I’d say at least a 7 on the attractiveness scale) I came to the conclusion a while back that if I were ever actively dating again, my list of criteria wouldn’t be more restrictive, it’d be a lot more broad. Compromise is the single most important aspect of any relationship – and I think that goes not only for relationship maintenance, but choosing who to be involved with.

  19. Doc Holliday says:

    Great series of posts

    Posting about my six pack… eat it

  20. bumbidu says:

    i cant take this serious…you are wierd entropy..wierd

  21. Benjamin says:

    This reminds me of this thing that I read on marketing theory. There’s optimisers, and satisfiers. Optimisers are the people that always want the best out of everything, that constantly chase improvement. Satisfiers are content with what they have. Consequently, the degree of happiness is higher in the second group.

    In a way, a lot of PUA is the optimiser movement: improve what you have, get the best. Then, here and there, there are the voice that call to ‘be happy with what you have’, ‘be happy in the now’, ‘feel good about yourself no matter what’. It seems these two threads run parallel: optimise on the one hand while being happy with what you have at the same time.

    Is it possible? My guess it’s an eternal balancing act, returning to satisfaction and departing to improvement cyclically and ceaselessly.

  22. Entropy says:

    Really interesting Ben. I actually just read recently that the University of Chicago did a widespread study on happiness and found two things: 1) married men are on average happier than single men, and 2) single men who are not dating are on average happier than single men who are.

    As a group of compulsive single male daters, we’re statistically one of the unhappiest groups out there.

    • Fluffy McGee says:

      True, but most experienced PUAs would probably qualify as outliers for this data set.

      Similar to how we qualify as outliers for the average number of women a man lays in his life… which I last read was 7…

  23. Dude says:

    Hey man, interesting stuff you’ve been posting lately.

    I’m not trying to take a jab at you but I’d like to make a point that someone by the name of “onenatural” on a certain site that hates on puas wrote awhile back that opened up my eyes on this kind issue, why do you think you’re entitled to this calibar of woman? What makes you think you deserve this type of woman??

    Okay so you want a chick who can match your wits, understand you’re world and also be arm candy, well maybe you don’t deserve that kind of girl, maybe you haven’t done enough or will never do enough to get a girl like that, maybe your not good looking enough or don’t make enough money etc to have that kind of woman.

    Again not trying to take you down a peg or whatever, its just something to think about.

  24. JohnnyK says:

    I can relate to a lot of what you’re saying Entropy.

    It’s really hard to figure out if I’m being too picky when I’m 80% sold on a girl that I know I’d have been 200% sold on 3 years ago.

  25. jayc says:

    I agree with you on so many levels.
    I steer clear of having one-itis now, but there’s something I’m curious about. I haven’t encountered this before. I love beautiful girls and love to be seen with them, but lately there’s this particular girl who’s not that pretty, but her…sexuality and intelligence make a really great mix and we have almost perfect chemistry, and I’m kind of torn if I should pursue her or the other HB 8-10 girls (I’d rate her 6).. I’m new to feeling this way. Usually I wouldn’t even think about it and instantly go for the other HB 8-10 girls. Shes kind of different and I cant believe I’m writing this, cause this means she really does have an effect on me. haha. shit. she’s even got me chasing her. bloody hell.
    I am usually “shallow” as some may call it, I mean, I appreciate a beautiful woman…
    This relates to your post because…even though I am presented with <HB options, I am more curious about what "emotional" perks this one could provide my life with. Could it be a real emotional connection?

    PS: is gagging while writing this a bad sign?

  26. Entropy says:

    Haha… it’s fine. Yeah, it’s shallow, but I think part of being a single guy and definitely a part of being in the community is to condition us to be a bit shallow.

    First off Jay, I’ll give you the same advice I give every guy who is starting to feel some serious emotions for a girl: don’t force anything. Whatever it is, let it play itself out naturally. If you find yourself wanting to see her every day, then do it. If you find yourself not caring about other girls you’re seeing, then stop seeing other girls. If you get sick of her and want to go bang someone else, then do that. If there’s something legitimate there (and it sounds like there may be), you’ll naturally just want to spend all of your time with her.

    And to answer your question, in my experience those “emotional perks” outweigh any hotness by a mile. When I met my last girlfriend, I was dating a model (super hot) and this girl who ran track at her school (ridiculous body). My ex was cute, but not very hot… a 7 at most, not as hot as the track chick and DEFINITELY no where near the model’s caliber. But the way you describe this girl is exactly how I started feeling — mindblowing sex all the time, chemistry through the roof — whereas a lot of girls I wouldn’t even sleep over at their place half the time, I found myself staying up to 5am with her just talking and goofing around together. I’d find the next day I wouldn’t want to go home… and it scared the shit out of me at first too.

    Anyway, I ended up dating her for two years. She probably doesn’t even crack the top 50% of hottest girls I’ve banged. But those two years were some of the happiest I’ve ever had. I wouldn’t trade a single day back.

    I say go for it.

  27. Shiva says:

    I only recently have stumbled upon your blog. It is one of the most interesting, well write out blogs on PUA and the community in general. So long have I struggled with girls to the point it was embarrassing. For the past 6 months I have turned to confidence building first, working on more inner game, and now I am seeing great results. That adds little value to this particular thread, and for that I apologize.

    What I did want to discuss is the power of the subconscious mind. I am currently working/searching websites for NLP and other subconscious efforts to improve habits. Also, this has brought me to believe in finding what my subconscious wants by using techniques and exercises. One I can figure that out, I believe I would be able to find the girl that meets the needs of my subconscious (attractive enough, intelligent enough, dealing with habits) and meeting half way with my conscious thoughts (much of the same). I highly recommend you all try these techniques too, it has made a great improvement in my life.

    I am not pegging for any websites or anything particular, simply a suggestion that many can benefit from.

  28. Paul says:

    Isn’t it funny that the article you get so much crap for is the one that I totally agree with?

    I have found the same to be true for myself with the more experience I get. I know there are women out there who are right for me, but I suppose I am looking for something quite exceptional.

    Most people in their 20’s think they know all about love but 99% don’t know shit. One thing I’ve learned is that romantic love is a temporary glue, and that what keeps people together is something else that requires a lot of maturity, support, respect, and loyalty. Most people, especially around our age just don’t have that.

    I know that no one is perfect, and I welcome someone who has their flaws to share their life with me, but there is something else (see above) that matters most to me that is just really rare to find. Sometimes I wonder if

    I’m just meant to be a lover and nothing more, but truth be told it just doesn’t do much for me these days. This is why I made a conscious decision about a month ago to not get involved with anyone on any level, and it has been wonderful.

    My whole approach is this: Let’s be friends, and maybe we’ll see about romance later. I figure if a woman invests the time in getting to know me as a friend, we can learn about each other and build a strong foundation of friendship over a long period of time, so then if/when the time comes we do become romantic, I can be certain she is mine.

    So lately I have been turning down dates, opportunities for casual sex, and no approaches. I’m just making friends and somehow believing that what’s meant to happen will. If nothing else, I am certainly strengthening the relationship with myself, which is the one that really matters in the end. Women will always be around, so I’m not concerned.

    • Bill says:

      Hey Paul,
      From a guy who is a bit burned out with all the tactics and game etc., I find your approach very refreshing. I’m not entirely convinced that its possible to get good results this way, but I think you are a brave man for trying it. Please keep us posted with how it’s going, because if I thought it were possible to get results this way, then I would definitely alter my tactics.

  29. Darius Gabbin says:

    This blog was unbelievably helpful. Your the man. lol 🙂

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  32. Theo Mattia says:

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  33. Aljoscha says:

    Awesome post, man!

  34. Jones says:

    This really struck a nerve with me. I’ve had an unusual course; I was totally happy and in love with a girl for 5 years, and I never, ever had to pick anyone up. It was only after that point that I had ever really been single. Picking up girls after that first relationship has always felt absurd. The depth and complexity of our relationship was blinding in comparison. I feel like very few guys understand this. I’m not perfect, but I consider myself pretty well-developed.

    I have constantly had to wonder if I’m weird, or if something is wrong with me. All guys seem to think and talk about is casual sex with hot girls. The idea of standards seems to go out the window. Yeah, hot girls turn me on, but because of my experiences I know I want a relationship way more than anything else, so what I really want is a girl who could enter my life.

    And intelligence! This is anonymous so I can be immodest…I’ve had exactly the same problem as you. I don’t want a Nobel Prize winner, just someone who can hold their own in a conversation with me. I want a smart, sophisticated girl. I think men underrate non-physical factors; maybe because they vary so much between people, we can’t compete with each other on them. Most guys don’t want the things I want. But why should I give a shit?

    In short, my experience means my emotional independence is really high…(except from the memory of this girl). And it extends to not feeling like I need to get laid all the time to validate my manhood. At the same time I know I have to get into the casual thing in order to meet more girls, before I’m likely to find one I really like. And I have to be honest with myself that I suck at that. But it’s hard to convince myself that’s something I should be upset about.

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