Yesterday, I shared some of the raw data from the recent survey of Post Masculine readers along with what they perceive to be their biggest problem areas, both for themselves and men in general. Today we’re going to tackle what readers think of the site and what we could be doing better.

Question: “What could the site be doing better?”

Almost 200 responses to this question in total, and I parsed out about 130 specific, actionable suggestions. Most of those suggestions were the same dozen or so repeated in different forms. Listed below are the most common suggestions, listed in order from most suggested to least:

  • Update more often
  • Better design / site navigation
  • More media / video blogs / podcasts
  • Higher quality content / better writers / better writing
  • More posts written by Mark
  • Branding problems
  • Your marketing sucks
  • More forum support, creating a bigger sense of community
  • Regular Update Schedule, i.e., every M/W/F

Aside from the survey comments, there’s a recent thread on the forum where many regular and long-time readers discussed the direction of the site and what could improve. From these two sources, along with analyzing site metrics from the past six months and talking to some trusted friends, I’ve zeroed in on three primary issues the site confronts at the moment:

1. Clarifying the Brand/Vision. What is the overall purpose of the site? What’s the long-term vision? How can we move toward that vision?
2. Content. Who writes what and how often do they write it? Should I have writers? How many? How narrow are the topics?
3. Site Design and Navigation. The current design is making it harder to market, harder to retain readers and harder to create a sense of community.

Issue #1: Purpose and Vision

Here’s the most succinct way I can put it: since last summer, readership has grown by 50%; yet commenting is down, forum activity is down, sales are down, and general enthusiasm seems to have flatlined. This is despite producing more content than ever before.

It’s clear that I have a branding problem and this realization sparked both the survey and the forum discussion. If there are more people here, but less activity, that can only mean one thing: people are feeling less attached and invested in the site. And that’s a big problem.

The brand and message at Practical Pick Up was pretty simple, and (I think) pretty unique and special: stop getting distracted by all of the unimportant nonsense, and focus on getting your own emotional baggage and self esteem handled, communicate honestly and clearly and fearlessly. That message was effective and my readership tripled over the course of eight months.

When we switched over to Post Masculine, there was a general sense of, “OK, we’re not just concerned about women anymore,” but it wasn’t exactly clear what we WERE concerned with. Then came a bunch of articles from various writers that sometimes tangentially related to the old vision of the site and women, and often had nothing to do with it at all. One reader submitted the following comment:

“Although I think that the new site is quite good, there’s sometimes a lack of connection between the articles. I’ve got the impression that in Mark’s book and in the older articles there is a common thread. The themes are more linked with each other. Now and with more writers, it seems that there’s not such a strong connection.”

Over the past couple months, I slowly felt the site descend into exactly what I DIDN’T want it to ever become: an knock-off with better writing. I think I naively believed that if the writing was good enough, then I could branch out into other categories without harming the brand. When the reality is I have to find a way to differentiate myself beyond simply “longer and smarter” articles.

I take responsibility for this. The new writers are smart and able guys. But I failed to clearly define a vision for them to follow, and I was probably too liberal on the subject matter I let onto the site. Frankly, I didn’t really know what I was doing.

As a number of readers said, stick to your strengths. There are a million sites out there on fitness and getting rich. What can I bring to those subjects that nobody else can or has?

And I’ll make it completely clear here: I’m never going back to just writing about pick up. I’m over it. And not only am I over it, but as the survey results from yesterday showed, the problems that men experience in their dating lives run deeper than simply women. They apply to multiple areas.

I spent a lot of time thinking about this issue, as pretty much everything else about the business proceeds from the vision and brand.

This is the conclusion I came to: What set me apart with Practical Pick Up was that I was addressing picking up and dating women in an emotionally aware, mature, and empowering manner. Something novel not just in that industry, but for men in general. I’d like to apply those same concepts of emotional awareness and masculine empowerment to life in general, not just women. Zooming out to a macro perspective, the biggest problem with men today is that they’re still confined to a dying gender role, a gender role which looks down upon emotional expression and setting strong and respectful boundaries in their lives.

So yes, the content of the site may be about living abroad, or starting a business, or vying for a raise, or approaching a hottie in a bar, but they should all be looked through the lens of men using their emotional awareness to empower themselves and take control of their lives. That’s the thread that sets me apart. And that’s the thread that should tie them together.

Issue #2: Content and Writers

I’ll start from my personal observations on the new writers and then get into those of the survey and other feedback.

I like my writers. They’re all smart guys. They all have interesting things to say. And the content (for the most part) has ranged from decent to very good. If it didn’t, I wouldn’t post it.

With that said, in the coming months, I’d like the content to take another step up. I include myself in that statement as well. I think the quality of writing and content here should absolutely be one of the defining differentiators between this site and others. And to do that I think we need to kick up the quality another notch… or three.

This raises another problem: they all have lives and day jobs, and this isn’t their primary passion or primary gig. Therefore, their reliability has already been spotty at best. And this is even before asking them to regularly give me unique, 1,500+ word, well-written articles on the self-discovery and emotional implications of enter-major-life-event-here. Yes, I realize my standards are obscenely high. And although I will talk with each of them individually over the coming weeks about it, I will be surprised if any of them are going to be up to this task with out some sort of greater compensation. And that’s where I may have to end up, hiring 3-4 very talented, very dedicated writers aside from myself, and paying them well to churn out extremely high quality content on relevant topics. Simply because the kind of content I want for the site is not something many people are capable of, AND of the few people who are capable of it are unlikely to have the time or will to give it away for free.

But my personal opinions aside, you guys seemed to like them (somewhat):

  • 56% say they enjoy reading the new writers. 9% don’t enjoy them. And 35% don’t care.
  • 53% do want the site to have multiple writers. 29% just want me. 18% don’t care.

At first glance, these numbers relieved me. People are happy. But then I realized that if we were churning out top-of-the-line content with regularity, these numbers would be in the 80’s or 90’s. And that’s where I would like them to be.

The site metrics for individual articles (pageviews, time on page, bounce rate, etc.) have a similar story. With the exception of a couple fashion articles and Xander’s series on nightclubs, articles by the other writers perform at about 2/3 as well as the site’s mainstays.

Basically, I think everything adds up to this: the content the past few months has been good, but not great. The writers are good, but they could be better.

Part of this is not the fault of the writer’s though… For instance, less than half of readers reported being interested in reading about health or fitness. And as a number of them commented: there’s no shortage of good fitness advice on the internet, so why would people come here to get it?

And this comes full-circle back to the branding issue above. If we’re going to narrow the vision of the site (and we are), then that means any time a writer deviates from that vision or lays an egg for an article, then it hurts the overall brand. Everyone needs to be on the same page.

Issue #3: Site Design and Navigation, Marketing

It appears the site is in need of a redesign. There were a LOT of comments, both in the survey and on the forum, saying they preferred the Practical Pick Up design, that it was far more reader-friendly, and that it made it easier for new visitors to discover older articles. I realize the navigation on the current site blows. And I think I made a mistake in pushing for more a magazine-like design instead of the old blog-like design. I suppose if I want great writing to be a cornerstone of my business, then I should have it front and center. The site metrics don’t like the new site as much either: fewer page views per visitor, less time on site, higher bounce rates compared with Practical Pick Up.

And yes, I know the marketing sucks. I know the sidebar email thing is ugly and annoying. I know I don’t do enough with Facebook and Twitter and my email list. I know the forum could be more integrated into the main site and supported more. And I know my products are buried deep within the site and not easy to find.

All of these things will change in a few months. As far as I’m concerned, Post Masculine is finishing up it’s “beta” phase right now. Primary goal number one these past few months was getting the new programs launched (which has taken much longer than I anticipated). Priority two was to set a foundation of content and really hone in on a clear vision and brand (that’s what we’re doing right now). Once those two things are taken care of is when I’ll address the marketing, and scale the shit out of this thing.

This has been a big learning experience for me the past six months. It’s also become abundantly clear that I’m in over my head in terms of workload and will need to hire full-time help soon.

As far as I’m concerned, here’s what needs to happen and will happen:

1. Launch rest of products over the next 4-6 weeks (fashion guide next week, conversations program in 2-3 weeks, attraction program in a month or so).
2. Hone in content on new brand and vision. I imagine this is going to involve me writing more often over the next few months, which I’m fine with.
3. Hire people. Site re-design and navigation upgrade. Scale marketing. Change the world. Get rich or die trying.


Please, leave comments and more feedback. Tell me if you think I’m completely headed off-course or if you think I’ve lost my mind. I do read everything you guys write and take it seriously. Thank you.

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26 Responses to State of the Site

  1. Kevin says:

    In regards to your sales being flat, that seems like it would make sense in light of how you’ve broadened the site’s scope. You’re attracting new readers, but ones who aren’t as interested in dating, let alone interested enough to spend money on products related to it (when you think about it it’s a very particular type of guy who is at the point where he’ll spend money on that kind of thing).

    I don’t feel super disconnected to the new site or anything, but thinking about it now, I do think that since the site has changed I’ve had a bit of a detached “Let’s wait and see where this new thing is going before I get too invested in it” attitude.

    And finally, this may seem like an odd comment, but in your post your use of the phrase along the lines of “I need to get good writers to churn out more content” made me a bit uneasy. It was the use of the word ‘churn’, like smart, insightful, groundbreaking content can just be mass produced on a regular basis for a bit of cash. Personally, if it takes you and your writers a few weeks to come up with three amazing articles, I’d rather read those then thrice-weekly so-so pieces that you only posted because you felt you had to keep up some regular updating schedule. I think when blogs feel they have to consistently produce new content, that leads to them going with mediocre ideas. But whatever, maybe you didn’t really mean to use the word churn like that.

    Or if you are going to go the ‘post a lot, get more traffic’ route, then maybe other forms of making money are better suited to that, like advertising or being an affiliate for more generic self-help products.

    • Mark says:

      I understand the quality over quantity argument, and I would agree with you. The goal here is to have both quality AND quantity. Plenty of sites on the internet that accomplish this with regularity. No reason why we can’t either.

      • Kevin says:

        Fair enough. I guess if you can manage to pull both quality and quantity you’ll put yourself in a rare category.

        I guess I made two false assumptions, one that a relatively small dating blog couldn’t possibly grow to be in the same league as some of the really good, bigger sites, and two, that there’s a false dichotomy between being a shitty content farm and a site with amazing writing that hardly ever updates.

  2. Zac says:

    When us Redditors gonna get some love with a share button?

  3. Brandon says:

    Careful with “I know I don’t do enough with … my email list”. For me personally, sending out many more emails would make me want to unsubscribe. Other people may be different, though.

  4. Evan says:

    For anything marketing/branding related, I’ve always looked up to Copyblogger as a successful blog I’d want to emulate.

    Products front, center, with clear benefits, and easily accessible from the blog as well. Tutorial pages on the side guide readers to the most pertinent articles rather than forcing them to slog through everything. A sidebar with the most popular articles allows the readers to have a say as well, giving new visitors a quick taste of what makes your site great.

    Regarding your Approaching program – here’s my own story about why I’m hesitant to hop on board. Take it for what it’s worth (just a case study).

    Honestly, I think the pricing scheme is a little bit scary. Sure I’d love to do one activity every day (and I’m sure they’re doable), but there’s a definite “fear of the unknown” going on. I’m a busy college student trying to balance a social life, volunteering, research, and getting a 4.0 – to me there’s no guarantee that I won’t end up taking 1.5 or 2x as long, even if you personally know the program is doable. Especially for people who have serious AA (I think I’m more of an approach apathy kind of person who feels relatively comfortable around new people, just needs a little more social tuning) the thought of an “unlimited monetary sink” is probably intimidating. In short, I suppose the lack of faith in myself as well as potential unknowns in the future are preventing me from going through with the purchase.

    Here’s an idea off the top of my head:

    I’d be willing to bet that if you had a fixed price AND a variable week-by-week price for people who were really go-getters, you’d do better. If the week-by-week price hits the fixed price, it caps out there. I’d have whipped out my wallet in the blink of an eye if the program was a flat 40-50 dollars.

    Anyways, just some ramblings to think about, take them as you will. For what it’s worth, I did buy your book Models.

  5. Paul says:

    Ditto on the men hanging on to a dying gender role bit. Keep going deeper with that.

    In terms of the branding bit, I think in order for you to solidify something, you are going to need to continue through this transitional phase and lose more readers (that, or become stagnant, which I KNOW you don’t want to do) before gaining other ones.

    Overall, I think you need to narrow your aim, and then be really BOLD about how you go about it.

    • Geert says:

      Like I mentioned in my previous comment aimed towards you: “I don’t think men have such an issue with hanging on to a dying gender role, I think they are having more an issue with being mocked”.

      I really don’t even understand what you stand for Paul…. I mean what if these guys who are hanging on to that ideal are perhaps just like that?

      I really don’t have an issue with gender roles, as long as people have taken the liberty for themselves to decide how they want to be seen and move through the world.

      • Paul says:

        You might be right. Perhaps some guys ARE “just like that”. But when considering the feminist and anti-feminist positions, the latter is indeed the dominant ideology, and thus rarely (if ever) considered among the laymen. Just like people generally don’t examine the validity of the color blue, for example, because everyone says it’s blue…so why question it? Dominant ideologies are much more influential, not to mention oppressive, and less likely to be examined.

        This isn’t a debate/issue of “who is right and who is wrong”. To me, this has always been more about raising consciousness around issues that are overlooked; issues that are detrimental to the human condition (which include all sexes). Sexism hurts everyone and everything. I believe that is a big reason why PostMasculine was created in the first place.

        Naturally, no one wants to feel they are being blamed, ridiculed, etc… and no one especially likes the threat of losing inherited privilege and power. The values which dictate the world at large are predicated upon the white heterosexual male. So this is more than just a gender issue. We’re talking full out systemic oppression in race, social class, ableism, etc…

        Considering what radical philosophy has done for me and countless others in becoming liberated from the confines of cultural demands, it seems worth spreading in an effort to raise consciousness. I agree with you that people should have the liberty to decide for themselves how they want to live, be seen, etc… but I don’t think at this point people have much ‘choice’ given how powerful the influence of culture is and the lack of examination its generally given. Just turn on your tv.

        If you’ve thought it through and decided that dominant ideologies work for you, or that you find solace in identifying with the traditional male gender role, that’s great. But most people are not that evolved. It seems like a discussion worth spreading, if nothing else. I presume it will naturally feel threatening to those who have benefited from systemic oppression, and liberating/empowering to those who have been subverted from it as a result.

        Again, I am talking about a radical philosophy that is more than just about feminism and women (although male/female relations are the premiere example of oppressive relationships). I’m talking about anything that doesn’t look like the white heterosexual male. Ironically, he has been bruised and battered by sexism too, but a fish who doesn’t know it swims in water.

        Hope that clears my position up for you a little.

        • Paul says:

          By the way, might I ask why you are targeting my comments specifically? My initial comments more or less reiterated what Mark originally said. Why not target him? Is there something specific you thought I could offer up to you that he couldn’t? Do you just want to put down the minority voice? Something else? I’d like for you to examine your own motivations for a minute. If you want to have an educated and informed discussion that explores perspectives, I’m down. But if you just want to see things one way only and ignore alternative perspectives that challenge dominant ideologies, I don’t think we will be capable of having a very evolved discussion.

          • Mark says:

            Yeah, for the record, I found myself nodding in agreement to Paul’s initial comment. I think it just triggered something in Geert.

            But please, let’s not turn this comment section into another feminism debate, and keep things about how to make the site better.

          • Paul says:

            “…keep things about how to make the site better.” – Mark

            Hire me to write just one article and I will make the traffic on this site so off the hook for that week that you will hear a dial tone, Mark.

        • Geert says:

          Well I’ll keep this briefly then and keep this mostly about the state of the site.

          I can follow your reasoning paul. Yes society does indeed install certain beliefs inside you. What job you should go for, what education you should take, how you should raise your suns & daughters and last but definetly not least in this topic “how you should behave as a man or a women”.

          True all true!

          But I don’t think feminism will be the anwser to that, hardly the cure and definetly not our new role model. I’ll use the kind and gentle words of the feminist Hanna Roisin to express my concerns about the interest of the feminist movement in men’s issues “women are now working double shifts and when they come home, they find their men playing video games”.

          So where is that you see this liberation? I don’t know about you, but I havn’t player a video game since last year or so. But the mere fact that such a statement is allowed under the impression of political correctness and good intentions, is to me, mindblowing.

          Are we even moving forward with such a huge amount of female chauvinism coming at us?

  6. Mark says:

    “I’d be willing to bet that if you had a fixed price AND a variable week-by-week price for people who were really go-getters, you’d do better. If the week-by-week price hits the fixed price, it caps out there. I’d have whipped out my wallet in the blink of an eye if the program was a flat 40-50 dollars.”

    I’ve been considering this, especially since a lot of foreigners are having payment trouble with so many recurring payments (Paypal isn’t very cooperative with a lot of foreign cards and banks).

    “Overall, I think you need to narrow your aim, and then be really BOLD about how you go about it.”

    I agree. Pick something really unique and next-level and then go balls out on it.

    • Shane says:

      There are a number of other payment services that should be able to help you out. I like amazon payments, which is what I use for Kickstarter. Google Checkout is nice as well.

  7. Warped Mindless says:

    Mark, I couldn’t agree more with having a fixed price for your programs. I’ve actually linked a few guys from a PU forum to your approaching product and told them that it would be a massive help for them.

    I know for sure that one purchased it and two of the guys told me they liked the idea of the problem but they didn’t like the pricing structure. One told me “i’ll just wait until it hits the net for free” and the rest I don’t know about.

  8. Jon says:

    I’ve been following your blog. I like a lot of the content that you’re putting out there. I almost never comment on blogs. I do read comments on a few.

    I’m not really interested in purchasing stuff either. I read through dozens of blogs everyday on a variety of topics (science, psychology, religion, film, programming, etc.). I’m probably not the type of reader who you’re specifically trying to reach, but I do enjoy the perspective this blog gives.

    I just wanted to take the time to respond so that I could voice my interest and support.

  9. Leo says:

    Something to think about, now that you mention that it’s not only pickup, but a general focus on men’s emotional awareness and empowering, I think that – both for products and for content you write – it’s still hard to let the “pickup” focus go.

    To give you an example: From all of the “PUA” products I’ve seen, Models has been one that has caught my attention a lot. It seems like a good & legit reference on pickup and dating. Way better than some of the crap that other sites sell, even with DVDs. Problem is, I haven’t bought it yet. Why? I have a girlfriend!!

    I know, probably most its the content still applies to men in relationships (and if you have a good sales pitch for me buying Models, go ahead! ;-)), but the product itself it’s still very pickup oriented. I know for example that I’m really not that interested in “approaching” (even if I wasn’t dating someone, well… I have female friends too, so cold approach is not that interesting for me right now). But maybe I would be interested in learning how to better handle myself *in* dating? Or maybe I would like to see more content on social anxiety in general. Etc.

    It’s not that you haven’t written articles on that. I remember one on the 5 stages of relationships that I thought was very good. I read even all the Xander articles on nightclubs because they’re, well, very interesting.

    But it’s something to think about. If you want to focus on men empowerment in general, it’s time to lose the “pickup” focus. But at the same time, you can still talk about women and keep us guys interested on that topic! Hell, maybe I want to know how to handle other girls, keeping other options open while having a great relationship with my current GF, etc…

    Or well, what you said: empowering men in general. Helping us make better life decisions. On this, btw, I think the forum serves a great role: sometimes for a life issue it’s better not you Mark preaching down your hard earned wisdom (though I’m sure you do have experience), but rather having a community for some guys who would like to express some things without paying $100/hour for a therapist =).

    – Having women-related content that it’s not precisely “pickup”.
    – Content on social anxiety or other emotional issues for men.
    – A more prominent forum where we can even have some “gurus”. Why not? I remember one guy from the old site that wrote very well, and I remember that reading him was very helpful (and inspiring), even though the main site content was still good.

    Ohhh… and last, it’d be fun to have some “field reports”. I don’t think over-analyzing the way somebody hooks up with a girl it’s any good. But the stories are usually hilarious and entertaining. Sometimes they’re inspiring. Well, when written by a good writer, of course =).

    These are my 2 cents.
    Hope it helps!

  10. Alberto says:

    The way you present your material is not conducive to selling programs. Your material is way more mature than average PUA. One gets strongly the impression that a more mature reader could integrate it and put it in practice by himself.

    PUA over-technical material lends itself to selling products, because there are endless technical topic to fix (body language, verbals, etc.). Honestly, the first reaction to your better and more mature content is wanting to read a lot of it, and having 1-1 coaching with you (and you seem to be doing well in terms of people wanting to read you and being coached by you personally). But not buying programs.

    The solution: emphasize more that you have a method. Quality and depth of content is not incompatible with having a method to implement, Buddhists and Stoics had a method for their deep spiritual wisdom. If a reader gets the impression that there are steps to implement, he will pay for programs that cover that.
    If you actually already have a method, it is not at all clear for the reader. You give strongly the impression of having mainly a lot of personal wisdom to share.

  11. Jack says:

    I think it would be better to have one quality article written by Mark once a week than 5 ok articles every week.

  12. Andy says:

    Like the way how you openly share this discussion about your business with your readers.

    If I were you I’d focus on my core strengths and monetize them accordingly. You are an expert on pick up, dating and relationships. Don’t try to become an expert (i.e. sell your own products) on fitness, nutrition, career, fashion etc. Because if you attack everything you’re gonna attack nothing.

    I like the idea of super-high quality articles in different niches, but I’d see them as pivots to attract new readers which then might become interested in your core line of products.

    Another option is to become an affiliate marketer of high-quality products in those other niches. Team up with experts in other branches like fitness, fashion, career and the like and market THEIR high quality products for a commission instead of trying to become a bad carbon copy of what they already do best.

    Another strategy could be to have additional sites (landing pages) for your dating products that you aggressively market in the pua community (why did you scuttle the Practical Pickup website?).

    I remember the big lesson that Ed Dale teaches: Focus on 1) Market 2) Traffic 3) Conversion and then 4) Product. In this order, not the other way round.

  13. Alec says:

    I agree with Andy in the sense that being even remotely well versed in online marketing will never hurt you. Just in case you aren’t aware of him, Frank Kern is the mac when it comes to all things online business and can’t recommend his material strongly enough.

    On a personal level, I’ve always loved the content, have bought models and will continue to buy what you and this site has to offer.

    Cheers guys!

    • Mark says:

      @Both Andy and Alec: I studied both Kern and Dale years ago, implemented their advice, and what I learned was everything they do is oranges to my apples. Often times implementing their advice made my results worse…

      For instance, Models with no salespage, converted four times better than it did when I had a conventional IM squeeze page like this:

      Why? Because people buy it because they like me and like the blog. Putting up a salesletter detracts from that relationship, and therefore detracts from the reason they’re buying. Every business is unique and what works in one market does not necessarily work in another.

      That and in the past when I’ve implemented Kern/Dale style marketing, my readers by and large complain to me.

      So yes, I’m well-versed in internet marketing. I’ve made money in other markets. But blogging is a different beast. And blogging about such personal topics is even ANOTHER beast.

      Ed Dale’s advice of market->traffic->conversion->product applies to a business that is simply searching blindly for a market of opportunity. So yes, if I wanted to start selling saltwater fish tanks, then that’s the approach I would take.

      But Post Masculine is in the completely opposite situation. I already have a sizeable readership and following. I already have a ton of customer loyalty. Money is not a problem right now. There is no shortage on time either. I’m in a position completely polar opposite to most internet marketers, therefore the advice that would be typical for them does not work well for me in this instance.

      I realize my marketing is tucked away, and probably a little bit more than it should be, but my primary concern is reader relations and reader retention first… handle that and people will buy your stuff without you even having to sell it… i.e., Models.

      The guy I follow and love is Gary Vaynerchuk. That guy is the way of the future. Dan Kennedy and those types don’t interest me… I’m not in this to get rich (although that’ll be nice), but in it to change people and change minds. If I do that well, the money will follow. You can call that naive… but like I said, money is not an issue at all right now. This site and my other projects are already making enough to sustain me for years.

      Once the foundation is set (brand, handful of staple products), then I can start worrying about marketing correctly and scaling. My marketing right now sucks and I’m OK with that. It’s not my primary concern right now.

      • Paul says:

        “I’m not in this to get rich (although that’ll be nice), but in it to change people and change minds”


      • Andy says:

        Thanks for your insightful reply. I see your point and I agree with you. Yes, your business model is different and it would probably not a good idea to implement two opposing marketing strategies at the same time, albeit on different websites and on different target audiences.

        “That and in the past when I’ve implemented Kern/Dale style marketing, my readers by and large complain to me.”

        I think that’s because your readership is more sofisticated, seeing through hyped-up sales pitches like that. It always comes down to delivering what the customers want.

  14. Socialkenny says:

    Hey Entropy,you update your blog often enough.No need to post an article every day.It’d kill the process and seem a bit spammy for your blog followers.

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