One recurring problem with this industry is that much of the advice was developed on a specific population of women and then sold to men as applicable in all situations and with all women, when this is clearly not the case.

A couple weeks ago, this Men’s Health article was passed along to me. It’s a somewhat bland article about good places to meet women (activities, through friends and grocery stores, in case you’re curious). But it also listed a handful of statistics that caught my eye:

“Men are possessed by the myth of the pickup,” says David Grazian, Ph.D., an associate professor of sociology at the University of Pennsylvania and the author of On the Make: The Hustle of Urban Nightlife. It’s in their heads that these bars and clubs are “teeming with anonymous females who are dying to have sex with any guy who is confident enough to talk to them.” The reality is that less than 6 percent of women report having had sex with their partners within 2 days or less of meeting them, and less than 20 percent of adults say they first met their most recent sexual partner in a bar. Perhaps it’s the nasty stigma of nightlife: A survey of 1,034 women by StrategyOne, a market research agency, reveals that nearly one in four women would be embarrassed to admit that she met a mate in a bar.

I’ve been saying for years that most women rarely even set foot inside bars and clubs with any sort of regularity. I’ve also been saying for years that meeting women during the day is superior for anyone who wants a girlfriend or higher quality interactions.

But holy cow, I didn’t realize the numbers were this off.

Now, I know what you’re going to say. Studies of women self-reporting their sexual behavior are about as reliable as cell phone reception in a hurricane. And I would tend to agree with you. But these numbers are so much lower than I expected, I don’t think you can ignore it.

Just to give you an idea, that’s 1-out-of-19 women admitting to sleeping with a guy within two days of meeting him (something which is considered commonplace within our industry). Even if you go with the extreme view that 50% of women would be willing to lie about something like this (a wild over-estimation in my opinion), that’s still only 1-in-10 women willing to do it. And even then, only 20% of them report their last hook up being from a bar. I’m assuming that’s taken from a population of women who regularly go to bars.

The only reason I bring this up is because the conventional narrative within the pick up industry is that young, hot girls all go out to bars, get drunk and fuck like the world’s coming to an end… every weekend. And oh, by the way, they’re fucking some super 6’3″ alpha male, not you. In fact, ALL of the “alphas” in the bar are getting laid… except for you.

But anyone with some real world social experience will notice this isn’t the case. 95% of the time I go out at night, the vast majority of girls in the venue are not hooking up with a guy, or if they are, it’s with a guy they came with. Anyone who approaches mixed groups regularly will tell you how often you approach a group expecting a guy and girl to be together and they’re not. In fact, most of the time they’re not.

I know that’s not scientific by any means, but the results of these surveys skew towards my observation rather than the conventional narrative.

And if there’s only a certain minority of women with even a willingness to become that sexual that quickly, then the conclusion follows that no matter what we do or how attractive we are, we’re always at the mercy of a woman’s willingness and interests first and foremost — how we control the interaction and where we lead it comes secondary.

My contention for a long time now has been that when it comes to getting a one night stand, “game” really only takes you so far. As always, we like to delude ourselves into thinking we’re in control of more than we actually are. If you want to get laid a lot, finding the right girl on the right night is far more important than the interaction itself. “Game” in these situations is only important as to not screw things up once you do find her.

A running theme through a number of posts over the past few weeks has been that of Demographics. Demographics is the idea that no matter how we choose to interact with women and present ourselves, we’re always going to naturally screen women for similar interests and intentions as ourselves. So for instance, a hardcore partying guy who spends all his time in clubs is going to naturally screen for women who like to party as well. A guy who is very sexual and forward is going to naturally screen out women who are not sexual and forward. A guy who is very religious and traditional is going to naturally screen for women who are also religious and traditional, and so on.

Basically, whichever behavior you choose, you’re going to screen for women of similar behavior and taste.

I spend an entire chapter on this concept in my book as I feel it is possibly THE most important concept when it comes to dating.

It seems to me that as the pick up industry evolved, it naturally gravitated towards behaviors and venues that attracted the small demographic of women who are open to casual sex — the 6% according to the surveys above. This makes sense since early on, the pick up community concerned itself mostly with getting laid.

But somewhere along the way I think a lot of people began to confuse this small subset of women to be representative of ALL women. It’s a plague that’s befallen the majority of male dating advice ever since: women are a bunch of horny, partying nymphs… just not horny and partying around you. Perhaps it’s because a lot of early PUA’s never had social lives or sexual experience before adopting their PUA worldviews. Or perhaps they spent so much time in night clubs they literally became myopic to the rest of the world going on around them. Or perhaps it’s simply because we don’t see women in most of their usual social settings: work-place Christmas parties, football game with her cousin and his friends, shopping with her sister, etc.

As a result, you see a lot of “dating advice” solicited that would be more aptly labeled “getting laid advice.” A good example came from the forum recently. A poster wrote a long post about being physically aggressive with women when approaching them, going so far as to literally picking them up and moving them around before even speaking to them or introducing oneself.

Thought about in terms of Demographics, this is excellent advice… if you’re looking for a one night stand in a club. Doing this in a high-energy party environment will immediately screen for highly physical women with low inhibitions and generate a lot of attraction quickly.

But in terms of dating advice for the female population at large, it’s poor. If you’re interested in more traditional or conservative women, looking for a more conventional relationship, are meeting women in more subdued venues (like say, a church fundraiser), then picking up a woman you don’t know and spinning her around while yelling at her will probably get you maced in the face and promptly escort off the premises.

One woman’s heaven is another’s hell.

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52 Responses to NEWSFLASH: Most Women Are Not Bar Sluts

  1. Chris says:

    One thing that stands out to me is the article is talking about their “most recent” partner. That doesn’t mean that they have never dated someone they met in a bar, but mostly I agree. Especially about the 2 days or less from meet to sex.

  2. Chris says:

    Blah… common… I thought we weren’t using the word ‘Slut’ anymore?

    WTF is a slut anyway? Girl who likes to have sex? common…

    Sure it’s just an attention grabbing title thing and I’m being a little bitch; but somebody’s gotta be that guy! 😉

    Good article I dig it, definitely interested in the subconscious similarity filtering. It seems obvious now but I hadn’t thought of it before.

    I don’t really have much faith in these social “science” studies these days though.

    • Mark says:

      I’ve never found the word “slut” to be derogatory, and still don’t.

      I believe women have begun staging “slut parades” in an attempt to own the word. Kind of like gay pride parades or something… I guess.

      Either way, it’s a much catchier title than, “NEWSFLASH: Not All Women Are Sexually Liberal Alcohol Consumers”

      • Kelvin says:

        SLUT: Sexually liberated urban topers

      • Paul says:

        ‘Slut’ never had a positive connotation to it. And although the slutwalks reason for starting was to bring awareness to a rape issue (which is good), the public seemed more interested and drawn toward the idea that a bunch of half-naked women were running around calling themselves ‘sluts’ (which is bad). FACT: There is no positive term for a sexually active woman, but there are many for men.

        • Geert says:

          Yep the word manwhore and player definetly come across as positive to me….

          • Paul says:

            I didn’t say there were no negative terms for sexually promiscuous men, just no positive terms for sexually promiscuous women.

          • RickS says:

            I think biology plays a big part in this. A man who has sex with lots of different women is doing a good thing (biologically speaking), while a woman who has sex with many different men is not.

  3. Nicholas says:

    Good stuff to remember. I want to live around women who like sex, but I don’t want to live around club-girls/bar-girls. (Even if I am ocasionally fascinated by them…) And our culture is saturated with horny babes, too. Feminists seem to have adopted the idea of “sex like a man” as empowering. And a lot of boundaries have come down – a stripper used to be an outcast in middle class society. Now it is almost a respectable profession – in my area a few teach pole dancing to housewives.
    And, like us, many girls go through different periods of experimentation. The 31 year old girl who would never, ever hook up with a hot guy on the first night may have spent her sophmore year sexing a different guy every weekend, and a few girls a long the way. But even in that period she probably chose members of her tribe, or a specific type. (Google: Karen Owen Duke)
    I admit that I have picked up some false, mostly subconscious mindsets about women – it’s a constant process of becoming aware of them and working on myself.

    • Nicholas says:

      PS: I think “slut” is a useful word. Like a lot of things, it can be misused.

    • Kelvin says:

      Actually, studies show that the 31 year old chick is much more likely to engage in casual sex than herself as a college sophomore. Women are horniest around that age, much more confident in their sexuality, and less concerned with peer judgement.

    • Paul says:

      “Feminists seem to have adopted the idea of “sex like a man” as empowering.”

      This is only true of a minority of feminists. Feminists generally think that promoting sex as central to a woman’s empowerment only reinforces the internalization of objectification, especially to younger generations who have no direct experience in living in a culture that was void of such degradation.

      What you are discussing is a cultural phenomenon that feminists call ‘raunch culture’. Look up this great book called ‘Female Chauvinist Pigs’ by Ariel Levy.

      I have to disagree with you about ‘slut’ being a useful term, but then again, I know plenty of women who would disagree with me and be proud to parade around and call themselves sluts who are DTF and such, and that it’s “their choice”. Meh.

      But keep exploring this topic for yourself. I think it is important, and I am proud to here you are doing so.

      • Paul says:

        And when I say a minority of feminists, I mean ‘sex-positive feminists’, who by definition as well as in practice, generally assume that any other variant of feminism must be ‘sex-negative’ and right wing, appealing to the raunch culture that traditional feminism (especially radical) fights against.

      • Nicholas says:

        @Paul, Thanks for your thoughtful comments. I am shooting from the hip when it comes to my knowledge of feminism – a few articles over the past 10 years in Harpers and The Atlantic by Susan Faludi, Naomi Wolf, Wendy Kaminer, et al. My comment comes from something Faludi wrote about an episode of Sex and The City, wherein Carrie happily notes that she is “having sex like a man.” Faludi, who is of an age to straddle 2nd and 3rd wave feminsim noted that this is where things have ended up. There was also a comment about the wearing of a Wonderbra as being empowering.
        The word slut, to me, like the word “woosey” or many others tends to describe the enforcement of gender roles. I beleive it says more about the speaker than the subject, but I do think it can be intersting.
        Finally, it seems to me that there was an early feminist insistence that men and women were basically alike. That never resonated with me, even as I tried to internalize that some women wanted to be treated as such. Andrea Dworkin, maybe. I would not be surprised to find that the word “slut” was propogated by women before men.

        • Paul says:

          Wow, I’m impressed. You have read some good stuff. I am used to having these kind of talks with women, so it’s nice to have a second male voice chiming in.

          Andrea Dworkin. You are the first guy I’ve heard to mention her. She was really strong, and controversial. The closest to her we have nowadays might be Sheila Jeffreys. I like Levy a lot too (author of Female Chauvanist Pigs).

          I’m interested to hear more about how you see the world ‘slut’ as useful. I have really thought this one through, I think, and the best thing I can think of that hits close to your comment is women taking control over the word, but even then, it is still a word that many men use to vilify women. Slut doesn’t encompass any other part of sexuality than the raunch aspect, and so even if women did ‘claim it’, to me, it just seems like self-objectifcation and a knowing assertion that it puts on a show for men – a show where sexuality is central and subjectivity is non-existant. I guess that is what concerns me… but I’d still like to hear your take on it as useful because maybe I could gain some new insights.

          Please do post more. I will be keeping an eye out for your comments.

          • Nicholas says:

            Paul, please do not be impressed with my superficial knowledge of feminism and feminist causes. I believe deeply in treating all people with respect and dignity but I have frequently been put off by what seems to me (this is a confession) more of a power struggle than anything else. Men bad. Women good. Sex is violence and rape, all sex. Sex negative, for sure.(Andrea D. and Catherine MacKinnon).

            I am several drinks in, but I am going to try…Why is the word slut useful? First, I suppose, it is useful to me as an adjective or adverb but not so much as a noun. (Although I have no problem with Mark’s usage in the title of the article.)
            I mentalize the word slut as describing a spectrum of behaviors. It is the commercialization of one’s sexuality, the recruitment of one’s gentials and one’s sexuality into service where heart and soul and character are called for – much to the detriment of all. (Right now I can hear “Woman in chains…”sells the only thing she’s got” playing in my mind..)
            Paul, you seem to be phenomenally empathic with women’s issues and in particular feminist causes. I am sorry if my words cause you any pain. I hope I come to this discussion with an open mind. Mark (who runs this site) writes that he does not consider “slut” to be deragatory – I frankly do.
            I don’t think it’s possible to separate the word slut from the culture – and I assume that must be a topic of feminist discussion.
            I have not yet read the references you mention, but I do intend to.
            If you find yourself within 50 miles of Newport Beach CA, I will drive halfway and we can actually talk about this in a meaningful way. But this is a huge subject and the column is getting very narrow…

          • Nicholas says:

            I wanted to add this: I attended undergraduate school on a track scholarship. I became a member of a predominately black culture. There was this time, a guy who went on to win NBA rings with the Lakers, “insulted” me at a party. He grabbed me by the neck and said something about me like, “This dumb fuckin’ nigger don’t even know he …” I didn’t hear anything else. I was a nigger. I was in, I was accepted. Nigger had been co-opted.
            I don’t think that’s true with “slut” but I am not in my 20’s.

        • Mark says:

          This is totally unscientific, but Nicholas raises a good point. My intuition is that if you added up the amount of times the word “slut” is used in a derogatory way, women using it to describe other women would be just as common, if not more, than men using it to describe women.

  4. Fk says:

    Love the demographics…that’s one thing I like about your writing, it always seems to focus on the “what accounts for the most variance” level of stuff.

    I will play devil’s advocate about one thing: do you think that the 6% follow a normal distribution of attractiveness? There could be a variety of factors biasing the population that engages in casual sex towards the more attractive (having a variety of sexual partners in the past, having more options leading to greater receptiveness to casual sex..)

    Course, those factors could just as easily go the other way..

  5. Agent Smith says:

    Mark, this is the first article of yours that I’ve to totally disagree. Funny thing is that I still find immense value in many of your articles

    My experience is totally the opposite (to a certain degree).

    I’ve picked up (let’s be honest, girls do like to be picked up, and I asked several of my girl friends and they confirm it in their own words) fantastic girls (both physically attractive and great personality that I like). Your process orientation idea still applies, my success rate is 10% at best and it’s more than enough for me.

    I still find the hottest girls in night clubs, especially if day/street is not target rich. Let me explain, when I am in London, I can totally just do day game and have the hot russian model as my girl friend, but especially in smaller cities in different parts of the world, night clubs still give me better access to better looking woman and I truly desire :)

    • Mark says:

      So wait… what do you disagree with?

      • Agent Smith says:

        Mark, to better explain, I disagree (or have a different experience) with the below paragraph of yours, which is a summary of your post as well, IMHO.

        >>>>>>>>>
        “I’ve been saying for years that most women rarely even set foot inside bars and clubs with any sort of regularity. I’ve also been saying for years that meeting women during the day is superior for anyone who wants a girlfriend or higher quality interactions”
        <<<<<<<<<<

        You are right that most woman do not go to clubs/bars regularly, but they still go irregularly. If any PUA goes out at regularly (once/twice a week), he has realistic chance to meet these girls as well (girls who are in medical school, good looking, and go to clubs/bars only infrequently).

        The issue with day time is that it's not the most efficient time where I can communicate my best self plus there are not many opportunities compared to night environment. However, if I schedule 2 hours to do daytime sarging, I prepare myself mentally, and then go out and have great experiences. But still, night time is much more efficient.

        I hope it's clearer. Cheers

        • Mark says:

          I said: “most women rarely even set foot inside bars and clubs with any sort of regularity.”

          You said: “You are right that most woman do not go to clubs/bars regularly, but they still go irregularly.”

          So we agree there…

          As for day time versus night time, my point is simply that day time presents better opportunities for guys looking for a committed relationship and a serious emotional connection. Obviously experiences will vary.

  6. General G says:

    One of your best articles so far, Mark.

    Have you already thought whether you are going to draw any conclusions from this?

    Like putting more weight on Daygame/Social Circle Game etc. and less on Nightgame?

  7. Leo says:

    I think the same aplies to all those guys that write LRs saying that they always have sex on the first date. In my own experience I could say it can happens, if the woman is VERY ttracted to you, but it’s not that common.

    • Fluffy McGee says:

      It really can be that common actually. Obviously no one is always getting laid on the first date, but I easily get more than half my first dates in bed.

      It didn’t used to happen for me all the time though. Until I laid out a plan for landing first dates it used to always take me 2-7 dates or so. The key really is knowing how to make it happen.

      It’s funny thinking back on it, because when I was younger I was much better looking and in better shape, but almost never landed first dates. Now I’m a 29 year old bald dude but have 10x more success.

  8. Tim9000 says:

    It took me nearly eight months of trolling Cambridge (Massachusetts, USA) bars before realizing that the highly educated women in attendance at those venues are *experts* at impulse control (which is how they managed to study enough to get into Harvard and MIT for grad school). They are among the least likely women in bars who will be DTF from a bar pickup. In hindsight it’s so obvious.

  9. Fluffy McGee says:

    “within 2 days or less of meeting them”
    I met him on Friday, we talked for five minutes, then we had a date on Sunday where we had sex after hanging out for two hours… nope that’s not two days or less. Yay! I’m not a slut! (not the best survey question here guys)

    “Even if you go with the extreme view that 50% of women would be willing to lie about something like this (a wild over-estimation in my opinion), that’s still only 1-in-10 women willing to do it.”
    If half of them are lying it ups the statistics to more like 1 in 2 women, assuming they would only lie by saying they haven’t done this.

    Aside from the not so great survey questions and the unreliability of self-reporting, I have to agree with you here Mark. I’ve said it a hundred times, bars are the worst place to pick-up in the world (clubs are a close second). Despite that, I still like having a beer with my friends and taking a crack at it every now and then, even knowing that I am statistically screwed.

    The funny thing is why bars are so difficult to pick-up at. In my personal opinion, it’s the myth that they are loaded with hot chicks who are all DTF that causes women to avoid bar sex at all costs. You meet the same girl at a party the next day and it’s a different story all together. The reason being: girls are absolutely terrified of being thought of as a slut and a girl who sleeps with a guy she met at a bar is automatically labeled a slut by our society.

    “the small demographic of women who are open to casual sex — the 6% according to the surveys above”
    Casual sex is not limited to these places. The two days or less question gives women an easy out when they still had sex relatively fast with someone. I’m not disagreeing with you here Mark, but the statistics themselves just have bad written all over them. Seriously though dude, go get your PhD and do a real study on this shit, we need one.

    The last thing I would like to note here is this: in the male population, what percentage of guys actually go out, pick-up and get laid *consistently* week after week? I would say this number is extremely low, like in the 0-1% range, but we all know they exist. They can only end up one-dropping so much of the female population, so there are still a significant number of women who might have never even ran into a PUA in the field.

    I can’t pinpoint exactly why, but these statistics seem completely bogus to me. 75% of women I date take somewhere between 2-7 hours of “time spent together” before we have sex. 15% will make me go the extra mile and another 10% will end with one of us rejecting the other. And guess what, I almost NEVER sleep with girls I met at bars or clubs, and when I do, they are usually in the 15% that made me go the extra mile, or the 10% because I said fuck this… too much work.

    Shit… this is depressing, I just remembered I have a date tonight with a chick I met at a bar…

    • Dr. Jeremy says:

      Fluffy,

      Good points all. As Mark discusses in the article, while self-report stats are not terribly reliable, they can be taken generally to point in a given direction. The general research gets a very “rough” snapshot, but not a completely bogus one. The only reason why it isn’t more precise, is because I’m the only PhD that seems to be talking with you guys (who actually know), and I’m not doing research (yet). Unfortunately, the average psychologist is still caught up in the mindset that wouldn’t make the differentiation between “days” versus “hours” in a question of women’s sexual activity. So, we get a blurry assessment of the truth – but again, not a completely wrong one.

      Having said that, there are other articles that point to higher percentages of women being comfortable with casual sex. Particularly, Conley (2011) who notes that up to 40% of women are agreeable to a casual sex encounter, under conditions that they feel safe with the man and expect the sex to be pleasurable. Because bars have a certain stigma and stereotype about them though, women might feel less safe with men they meet in a bar, or take longer to trust him – hence lowering the odds there. Furthermore, because everyone is drunk, women’s perceptions of men’s sexual prowess coming from a bar/club might be diminished as well. So, the social savvy (and soda drinking) man may have better odds than other guys in the club, but is still working against the general stereotypes and pre-judgment of the situation. Their skills might be put to better use in day game – as even your own informal statistics suggest.

      Overall, I think the truth is an interaction between your point and Mark’s. Whatever the exact percentages are, most women are not getting drunk and DTF in a club every weekend. However, under the right conditions, more than 6% might consider a casual encounter. It just isn’t as many as some parts of pick-up would propose – and those “right conditions” are probably less likely to happen in a bar/club than a grocery store, mall, etc. So, Mark’s “reality check” is a good one. Better knowing the general truth, than having guys blaming themselves that they “suck” because they don’t “pull” every single time they go out to the club.

      Oh…and good luck on your date :)

      Conley, T. D. (2011). Perceived proposer personality characteristics and gender differences in acceptance of casual sex offers. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 100, 309-329.

    • Fluffy McGee says:

      @Dr. Jeremy

      “Because bars have a certain stigma and stereotype about them though, women might feel less safe with men they meet in a bar, or take longer to trust him – hence lowering the odds there. ”

      This is a good point, I always tend to think women avoid bar sex to protect their ego / reputation, but they would most certainly feel less safe sleeping with a guy they met at a bar.

      ——————————-

      “Furthermore, because everyone is drunk, women’s perceptions of men’s sexual prowess coming from a bar/club might be diminished as well.”

      This is an interesting point, because I’ve come across some conflicting research with regards to alcohol’s relationship with libido.

      In the study below (if I can link it…) they were able to show a four fold increase in testosterone levels in rat’s brains after being injected with alcohol. Meaning we all get pretty damn horny when we drink if this has a similar function in humans. This would coincide with my own experiences too, since I tend to have sex more often when I’m drunk (usually I wake up with an erection four or five times at night when I’m drunk).

      http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/abuse/l/blacer030117.htm

      The long term affects of alcohol on libido have been shown to be negative, but it seems like a “myth” to believe that alcohol equals no sex drive in the short term.

      ——————————-

      “Their skills might be put to better use in day game – as even your own informal statistics suggest.”

      Not just day game, any game that isn’t a bar or club. I often go to house parties, parties in parks, parties at clubs before club hours, the internet, and elsewhere to meet women. I find my “luck” at these places is an order of magnitude higher than at a bar or club. I never actually do what I would consider day game and I consider my success rate fairly high.

      ——————————-

      “Oh…and good luck on your date”
      Thanks =]

  10. Kelvin says:

    It’s a little difficult to understand exactly what actionable advice we should take from this post. Let’s say we just want to get laid (as your survey indicates most of your readers do). What then? Should we instead focus on daygame and dates, or learn salsa?

    Despite what the study says, I still think the easiest way to get a fresh lay is at bars.

    • Mark says:

      That’s kind of the point of the post… that getting quick lays is easiest at bars…

      The advice is to know your audience. There’s no single strategy to meet and date women… you need to modify your strategy and venue based on what you want and the kind of women you want to meet.

      The second point is that the common perception that most women are horny bar sluts is unfounded.

  11. Matt Adams says:

    6% of 3,500,000,000 is still 210,000,000 women.

    I’d like to know if the survey targeted women in general, or women who frequent bars nightclubs.

    Also, the number could be that small because vast amounts of men are, well… Pussies. With a capital ‘P’.

    ~Matt

    • Paul says:

      6% of the time…it works every time.

    • Tim says:

      Go take a look out your window. Wait for 16 women to pass by. Then see the 17th woman. That’s your first bar slut. Now imagine waiting for 16 more women to pass if it doesn’t work out with her.

    • Gully says:

      I’m not sure what this post infers that much either. The stats are no way near the real truth of the situation.

      End of the day, go to a bar, get drunk, get laid, its not that fucking hard – not that I think pick up help is stupid – but its really overcomplicated.

      And personally, I reckon 99% of women would be down to fuck brad pitt/johnny depp on the first night. So the question is HOW MUCH they want to fuck you. Thats the only real variable in my opinion.

  12. Brian says:

    Mark,

    You’ve expressed that you often develop deep emotional connections with the women you end up hooking up with. I assume that this is with all the women you meet whether it be through social circle, day game, or bars/clubs. Since you develop actual connections with these girls that you meet at bars/clubs instead of just stereotyping them as “dumb club whores” I had a question for you. Do you still subscribe to belief that women you meet during the day are of higher value than the ones you meet at clubs/bars or is that just a gross generalization?

    • Mark says:

      It’s not with ALL women I meet. If I developed that kind of connection with every woman I met, I’d be fucking 24/7.

      But yes, I’ve found that venue or situation in which you meet doesn’t affect the potential for connection, it has more to do with the personality of the girl.

      In general, meeting women during the day creates a better context to have a real and genuine interaction with women. If you’re interested in a committed relationship, day time is going to present better opportunities for that. That’s all I’m saying.

  13. Devin Z says:

    I believe every girl has the “inner slut” they may not all show it. But breaking it down to basic human instinct all girls want to have sex. Chemical reactions go off in your body that cause the urges. It’s science we can’t fight that. BUT women will try and fight it because they “respect themselves,” which means women’s right or whatever it is says it isn’t morally correct to have sex with strangers because it’s only for the man’s enjoyment! I believe all girls are these so called bar sluts on the inside, but due to society’s conditioning only a small percentage let it come out.

  14. Mark says:

    What a lot of the comments seem to be missing is that my point is that the methods we use and teach are designed to screen for those 6% — not that those 6% never happen, or not that it’s actually 30% or 100%.

    It’s just an observation.

  15. Brian says:

    The pua conditioning here is very strong mark. The fact of the matter is, 99.9 percent of pua are too much of a coward to do day game because they need alcohol to get rid of their AA. So naturally, their experience isnt going to match up with what you said here.

  16. Dr Feelgood says:

    You don’t see many random hook-ups in bars and clubs, that’s true – keep one thing in mind though: Most guys totally suck at pick up and couldn’t pick up a marble from their bedroom floor to save their lifes! I sometimes wonder what it would look like if you let loose into the nightclub a bunch of fearless dudes with, ahm, “ultimate game”; how many pick ups would actually happen? A LOT more, that’s my personal guess.

    In regards to finding the right girl being more important than your game, that’s so important to remember! This also leads us back to the importance of being fearless – approach enough sets and your chances go up a lot!

  17. Cam Langdon says:

    Dr Feelgood. Random pickups happen in bars all the time – it’s usually the women that are doing it though 😉

  18. Geert says:

    Omari Warren (realmademen) wrote a similar post some thing ago.

    He called it “the failure of the seduction community”. He said that the seduction community made it seem as if all women are just sluts who want nothing but sex.

  19. BinkyBonko says:

    Picking up girls (women) in nightclubs will make a man grow to hate women, everybody has a heart wether they know it or not.

  20. Lele says:

    While I agree with your feeling that the bar scene is over-represented in the PUA community, I don’t agree with the arguments you have presented.

    Quote: “The reality is that less than 6 percent of women report having had sex with their partners within 2 days or less of meeting them, and less than 20 percent of adults say they first met their most recent sexual partner in a bar.”

    The reality is that since the seduction community is bar-centric, women who don’t frequent bars are less likely to meet a man who skillfully pushes for sex. Heck, even if all the PUAs were roaming the streets, they are such a minority of the male population that they wouldn’t skew the statistics that much. Let’s not forget that, no matter how ridiculed AFCs are by the PUA community, they still manage to get laid and hitched eventually.

  21. Neil Linkert says:

    Women’s brains don’t work normal, there is no rationality, or consistency. When a woman calls another woman a slut, that’s derogatory, it’s meant to degrade her and expose her as a bad person. But if a man calls a woman a slut, she’s proud of it, proud of herself, like she’s above other women, like ALL men want me!!

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