The poker thread.

[Chaos]

So basically I've started playing poker online. I don't want to make money out of it, I just wanna rock the poker nights with my friends (which after having read a little bit doesn't seem difficult at all since we all SUCK).

Anyway here's what I'm reading:

- Texas Hold'em sin limite de J.Carreño (in Spanish): Completed. This one is awesome, it has all the basics and the introduction to the kind of players and so on, it like an ABC of poker
- Professional No Limit Hold'em. Ed Miller: This is what I'm reading right now.

So any other resources, tips or comments that you wanna share?

[Jani]

pokernews.com is the go-to site, although in my language. And for a pokersite is pkr.com the best, it's in 3D.

In my opinion, strategies won't help you much. 95% of the players is shit, so you can't put them on an hand and they bluff you away from your cards.

One of the big players tried to start with $0,00 for a challenge. He had a lot of trouble to bust through the low levels, because they would follow his bluffs with 72 unsuited on a draw-heavy board for example.

Poker is overrated and very boring if you have donkeys as opponents. Don't waste your time with learning poker. Chess is much more interesting, but it has't the appeal of poker.

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And pokerstrategy.com is the best site to learn poker. You get $50 for free and it's with levels, webcasts,...
Pretty nice.

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And don't read books, they don't match with online poker. They are too passive-tight for the poker today. 10 years ago a raise was something to be afraid of, now a 3-raise doesn't mean anything.

[Chaos]

I already have a decent level at chess, enough so that most of the matches with my friends are boring but I don't have enough knowledge or will to get good (I'm really bad but in comparison I look good). I do play now and then in Social Chess though.

As for poker is more like a tradition. Monday is poker night and it's not so much about poker as it is about getting together with my friends and having a fun time. Still I want to destroy them a couple of times so that they think "what the hell is going on??"

[Jon]

I am not a big poker player but I actually know a lot of very good online poker people and I know that in terms of books

1) they don't think the books are all that useful but
2) the two best are super/system and David Sklansky's books on no limit poker

You can usually dominate lower level games primarily by playing the odds properly. If you always have the right odds in your head, it will work out in the long run at low levels because others do not do this and you will therefore get massively in your favor opportunities.

2+2 forums is a good resource.

Also bear in mind that the variance of poker is high enough that even if you are significantly better, on any given night you might end up losing to them, so you won't necessarily get to destroy them a couple of times.

[Mark]

It's been a long time, but I deposited $50 in Full Tilt in late 2006 and built it up to almost $5000 by mid-2007. I'm not an expert, but I'm a winning player, especially when playing against random people off the street. I still play in casinos or home games occasionally and am usually by far the best player at the table. You should need to know very little poker strategy to be able to beat your friends consistently.

If you want to beat people who suck, learn to play proper "tight" game or what's often referred to as TAG style (means "Tight Aggressive"). Learning the basics of this play style will win pretty much any low stakes game online ($50 or less buy in) and smoke any one in real life who hasn't ever read a poker book.

TAG style means limiting your starting hands. The biggest mistakes inexperienced players make is that they play way too many hands. As Jani said, if they suck, then you don't have to worry too much post-flop strategy because 1) usually you're going to have the better hand, and 2) they're going to do something stupid.

Starting hands should be: any pocket pair, any Ace down to a A10, and maybe even lower if they're suited. KQ, KJ, QJ, Q10, and T9. Only play suited connectors (87s, 65s) in late position.

You should either be RAISING or FOLDING pre-flop. Only time you should just CALL a raise pre-flop is if you have a low pocket pair or low suited connector and you're looking to catch a big hand on the flop. Don't be afraid to re-raise someone with a good hand pre-flop either.

If you raise pre-flop, ALWAYS continuation bet (bet half the pot on the flop), whether you hit anything or not.

Play fewer starting hands in early position and more starting hands in late position.

Another big newbie mistake is that they will play garbage hands like K2 because they think the king is good. King and a low card, Queen and low cards, these hands are shit. Avoid them.

This is all assuming you're playing in at least a 5-6 person game.

Read enough to understand everything in this post and you should be able to beat your friends regularly.

[Pineapple]

Any tips for heads up, Mark? Probably the weakest area of my game.

[Mark]

I never played heads up much... almost entirely 6 hands games for me. Obviously your range needs to widen and aggression and fold equity become much more important in heads up. Variance goes up quite a bit as well.

I think heads up at lower stakes is a matter of being aggressive enough. Once you get higher you need to develop an accurate perception of one's own hand against certain ranges.

I spent a lot of time with some programs that calculated equity of a certain hand, say A9o versus a wide range and trying to get a feel of where I may stand in a lot of situations.

That's where I was with my game before I quit. I had to withdraw most of my bank roll because I was broke and starting a friggin pick up business, haha...

[Deric]

I did really well playing online poker.. Unfortunately the US shut all of our sites down, but thankfully a few weeks before I cashed out a few thousand from absolute poker. I primarily played live poker cash games and online tournaments. I get too antsy sitting around a live tournament. I'm usually a winning player, but I need to have the right bankroll or I don't play properly.

If you're playing with money you don't have you won't play right or the way you should. I take more risks and I am more willing to call a player I think is bluffing if I know I'm not going to be broke if I lose.

[Chaos]

Yeah, pretty much what Mark described is what is taught in the first book I read. After reading it and playing a couple of nights online I realized how badly we all play... Hopefully that's about to change

To give you an idea a usual hand on our poker knights (5 players) will be 2 o 3 player calling and the BB checks, then check, if someone has anything on the flop he'll raise, usually with top pair or maybe overpair... And that's about it

[Mark]

Chaos: Can I come play with you guys?

[hiphoppotamus]

By far the (2) most important things you must learn if you decide to play poker is

1. bankroll management
2. MANAGE YOUR TILT

Seriously you could be the greatest player the world has yet to see but if you don't have the appropriate amount of buyins for the game you are playing, DON'T PLAY.

For nlhe 20 buyins is sufficient. More if you are playing heads up or playing for a living, less if you are running well and want to move up aggressively. mMve back down if you go below 20 to gain confidence. Don't play higher stakes to chase losses, you're going to have a bad time.

TILT. It fucking sucks. Everyone has tilt. as long as you're human you will tilt during this game and theres nothing you can do but choose how it will affect your play. When you're hitting cards and winning, the world will seem like sunshines and rainbows but when you're opponents are hitting 1 outers over and over it seems like you can't win a hand no matter what you do. It can affect your interactions with people and you will feel shitty the rest of the day. There's been countless times where I've lost a bit early in the session and spend the next 4 hours try to win it all back. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. In the end, I am tired and hungry and I look at the clock and realize I've wasted hours trying to get even. I could be outside or learning a language or learning to play a musical instrument or talking to girls but instead I was holed up in my room staring at a computer screen clicking buttons. If you are playing with friends, it's fun. If you are playing for money, it's emotionaly draining. There are many other ways of making money besides poker, many of which can help the world or benefit others in need.


Check your ego at the door.

[Mark]

Yeah, tilt is huge... tilt can be subtle at times as well, it can be happening without you even realizing it.

[SeXyBaCk]

What's great about poker is, once you take it seriously, it teaches you patience.

That's about all positives I see about a game though that's clearly addictive, aside from the fact that money can be made/earned/won. Fastest way is probably spending a year on those US shore/carib cruiseships and just clean out the better-to-do pensioners.

On the downside: you're holed up, you always play against others, always competing and you're not actually adding a whole lot to society and in the end what are you going to say you did with your life? "I played poker. Mostly online." Hipphos right, there's way better stuff to do to pass time or make a living. Learning how to hide and control all emotion isn't such a useful skill to have outside the casino/gambling venue either.

It is fun though to clearn out my inebriated friends once a month.

[Mark]

A surprising amount of my pick up clients were pro poker players. All of them loved the money and hated the lifestyle. They were always stressed out, stuck in their room for days at a time, socially anxious, etc.

[Chaos]

I won 1€ today ... Yuhuuuuuuuuu!!! ... So far I've recovered 5 € from the 16€ I lost the first week LOL...

Basically I'm starting to get the hold of it a little bit. I don't get into complicated positions, play only with premium hands if I'm CO and relax it a little bit if I'm the button ... plus I'm learning to get what range of cards the other player have based on their bets. Of course in the lowest limits.

[SeXyBaCk]

Chaos you're on a suckatage. Time to cut your losses and go back to your day job? You can pass me your account, i'll try my luck... seriously though don't tell me where to play this stuff online, i'll probably over-do-it as well.

[curiosity]

So which one of Mark's interns was the the professional poker player? Tim, Halo or Zac? Thanks.

[Halo Effect]

You chose your name well.

But it was me.

[curiosity]

(12-21-2012 06:30 PM)Halo Effect Wrote:  You chose your name well.

But it was me.

Hello!

[curiosity]

So, I already played poker with my friends in life but without a clue. I've also seen the film Poker Face or similar title. So it's a job. A nicer one, though. But to know the rules of the trade I assume you must learn it, preferably from pros, right? Just like any other profession.

Sure, you may learn it from the net but all I found was confusing and more advanced info for a newbie.

Compare that as JLAN said in the trading thread, if you start in forex, you go to Babypips School and it's straightforward in the beginning. (Though I agree with Mark, that much of it is crap info, but that's a different story.)

So any recommendations for a book, web site, video course where to begin? Free or paid, whatever. My time is more valuable.

[TheoJ]

Harrington's book are excellent (Harrington on Hold' Em)

[curiosity]

(01-02-2013 06:21 PM)TheoJ Wrote:  Harrington's book are excellent (Harrington on Hold' Em)

Thanks. Just keep 'em coming!

[Mark]

Harrington's books are the best for tournaments.

Brunson's "Super System" is kind of the all-around starting place that everyone should read.

Back in the day http://www.cardrunners.com had great videos that I learned a lot from.

[Chaos]

And just for fun I love Poker After Dark.

[Cosmo]

I'm a bit surprised that Mark prefers SuperSystems to HoH. I reckon his books are far superior myself (and I have a professional poker player friend who agrees).