Attraction Male and Neediness

[freiheitlich]

In the book models Mark describe, that women are attracted to cofindent, high status males with a lack of neediness. BUT

If i have a very strong desire to have a girlfriend, do this demonstrate needniness?

If yes, then, how can a non-neediness man still be non-needy, if he has a strong desire to have a women ?

Do someone understand this Paradox?

[Brian]

It's an extremely needy behavior. How do i know this? my real life friend have this desire and he's super needy when he goes out to hit on girls even AFTER he read model.

What do you want in a girl? When i asked my friend that, he gave a very vague answer, something like "um, intelligent, japanese" and that's it. Look at the real reason why your'e so desperate to get a gf imo. To be honest, a desire for sex is always less needy than a desire for affection. Desiring for a gf badly is probably a symptom of lacking affection from other sources in life...friendship, parent etc.

[Tim]

"a desire for sex is always less needy than a desire for affection"

Hardly. What are you basing this on?

[Brian]

Every person i've met who desperately..note i said desperately desire to have a gf usually means they are incredibly lonely because they cannot get it from other sources. Usually these people have terrible relationship with their family and live alone.

Its always easier to get affection after you fuck a girl, just run tons of comfort after sex. However, i know people who have "affection/friendship" from girls but cannot fuck them.

Therefore, it's always better to get sex, and get affection later once you know for a fact shes' the one you're looking for.

[freiheitlich]

It can not work. I approachet at the weekend 4 girls on the street. I was very horny, and I thought always about sex. I had the mindset, i wanna approach her, because i wanna fuck her. Girls leave always after few minutes after the opener. BUT, if I apporach because I wanna have her, the sets always move good, and I mostly get number.

Mindset = I wanna fuck her = No number close
Mindset = I wanna have her = mostly number close (but is this neediness, if yes, why it works?)

[Guyintheback]

Didn't Mark just recently write that there are two mindsets?

One, treating the women as objects, which I would relate to "just wanna fuck her", seeing her as a piece of meat basically

The other: Opening her with curiosity and the interest to get to know her.

I think that is the difference.


About the girlfriend - neediness question: I think Brian is spot on. It's not needy to want a girlfriend, but it is needy to look for a girlfriend just to get validation and companionship. If you are lonely and just finally want to have someone who is nice and close to you, anyone, no matter what she looks like, what her character is like, what her interests are: That is needy.

How do I know? Been there, done that.

[Guyintheback]

Didn't Mark just recently write that there are two mindsets?

One, treating the women as objects, which I would relate to "just wanna fuck her", seeing her as a piece of meat basically

The other: Opening her with curiosity and the interest to get to know her.

I think that is the difference.


About the girlfriend - neediness question: I think Brian is spot on. It's not needy to want a girlfriend, but it is needy to look for a girlfriend just to get validation and companionship. If you are lonely and just finally want to have someone who treats you nice nice and is close to you, anyone, no matter what she looks like, what her character is like, what her interests are: That is needy.

How do I know? Been there, done that.

[freiheitlich]

Guyintheback Wrote:Didn't Mark just recently write that there are two mindsets?

One, treating the women as objects, which I would relate to "just wanna fuck her", seeing her as a piece of meat basically

The other: Opening her with curiosity and the interest to get to know her.

I think that is the difference.


About the girlfriend - neediness question: I think Brian is spot on. It's not needy to want a girlfriend, but it is needy to look for a girlfriend just to get validation and companionship. If you are lonely and just finally want to have someone who is nice and close to you, anyone, no matter what she looks like, what her character is like, what her interests are: That is needy.

How do I know? Been there, done that.

No, I want a girlfriend, that is attractive and fit to me. Is this really needy and unattractive? But Mark wrote Desire for a women create attraktion?

[8_Ball]

There is a difference between looking for a girlfriend, and being open to a LTR.

The first case implieds a neediness for not being alone, because you only look for something if you feel that you somehow need it. What will happen is, that you will screen the girls if one of them is "girlfriend material" (i hate that word), and soon as you feel she is, you will get into a LTR very quickly, because if you really want it, you can´t wait until this happens. Like Mark wrote, HEALTHY relationsship happen slowly but stable, so the opposite what will happen to you, and me, and all the others who looked for a girlfriend.

Be more openminded to other relationsship forms, try them out with different women, and if you really feel after some time that one of them is special and makes you much more happy then the others, and that you lost any interest in other women, then go for it. But again, take it slow!

The best relationsships I had was at times, when I said to myself: "I don´t wanna have a girlfriend right now, I wanna date many women!". This is not a coincidence. it is the feeling that you subcommunicate: "You may be very hot, and have a very interesting character, and be the girl that I want, but I don´t need you.


EDIT: This is also exactly what I tell women on dates: "Im not searching for a relationsship, but If I date a girl for a longer time, and she inspires me so much that I lose any interest in other women, then I go for it". This works great, because 1) you are polarizing and showing women who are searching hard for a relationsship that you are not the right one for them (except they wanna have a sex partner while searching and 2) it is a very attractive behaviour, because you honestly showing a not-needy, leading characater (I dont need any woman and I make this clear to you with the risk being rejected, and I decide whether and when I wanna enter a relationsship). Almost every time I got a very attracted response.

Thanks Brian!

[Brian]

Good post. I should forward this to my friend lol

[Matty]

I don't really see anything wrong with looking for a girlfriend. We can mentally masturbate and analyze "neediness" six ways to sunday, but the fact is that as long as you aren't willing to settle with just anyone, there's nothing needy about being at the point in your life where you want a relationship. Basic human need. There seems to be an obsession and paranoia around here about "am I being needy". I think such an obsession is, ironically, needy. Go after whatever you want.

[8_Ball]

It´s not an obsession or paranoia, being not needy is an ideal which means will never get to the point where we don´t expect any validation from smb., but we still can work on us so that we become the less needy possible. I´m not going to explain why this HAS to be, if you want to know you should read Mark´s article and book about it, and/or "No more Mr. Nice Guy".

Most of the time when smb. is really searching for a relationship, he or she is not completely happy with their life and try to fill that gap with a relationship. There a lot of people who always NEED to be in a relationship, otherwise they feel alone and miserable. People who are completely happy in their life don´t need a partner, because they are also happy as a single, which does not mean that they are open for a relationship.

You are right that you have to go always whats makes you happy, and if it is a relationship, then go for it! But you have to be sure about your motives. Again, if you want it because you don´t want to be alone or something, it is a needy reason for the reasons above. If you want it because you met an awesome girl and lose interest in other woman, this is IMO the only true and healthy motivation for it.

[Chaos]

8_Ball Wrote:which means will never get to the point where we don´t expect any validation from smb

Newsflash, everyone needs validation, everyone needs affection, everyone needs to have the feeling he belongs. That's just human nature, you can deny it. There are levels, and more importantly there are different moments on your life, but that's always there, you can't undo it, and you shouldn't even try.

8_Ball Wrote:People who are completely happy in their life don´t need a partner, because they are also happy as a single, which does not mean that they are open for a relationship.

Theoretically yes, but no one is completely happy. I want a relationship because I want something that I don't get from casual relationship. I want the trust, the familiarity, the comfort, the deep love, the deep connection that come with a relationship. I want that which comes with months or years of knowing someone, and maybe I want a family, kids and to be a father. And that's something I don't get from casual sex or casual relationships, and I have them.

The fact is, at some point, for me, casual sex isn't just enough... and I'm not saying I'm willing to settle for just anyone who "validates" me... but the fact remains I want a relationship... with just the right woman, and that means a lot of times casual sex just bores me. If that means I'm needy, well then, I'm needy, but I know what I want and I'm not willing to pretend otherwise just to avoid "being needy"... because sooner or later you ALWAYS need other people in your life, be it friends, family or a woman.

[freiheitlich]

Tim Wrote:"a desire for sex is always less needy than a desire for affection"

Hardly. What are you basing this on?

Why you think the desire for a girlsfried are needy? And Desire to have Sex with a girl is not?

[Jon]

I mentioned this in another thread, but the issue is less whether you want a girlfriend, and more with whether you are fine if you don't find one for a while. You can totally go after having a girlfriend, the issue is if you are too willing to jump in because you just want to have a girlfriend, any girlfriend.

[Tim]

"Guys who are trying to bang 100 girls usually need to get a girlfriend. Guys who are trying to get a girlfriend usually need to bang 100 girls."-Mark Manson

You can be needy and desperate for either one, and I think it's ridiculous to say that the desire for sex is some how less so. Guys seek both for validation, security, etc, and if you think that either of those is inherently more needy than the other then chances are it's due to your own relation to either one.

On the other hand, there is a definite bias on this forum towards getting laid rather than getting a girlfriend. The fact is, the majority of guys in the world aren't looking for more than a handful of one night stands in their whole lifetime, let alone constantly. They're hoping to find one girl that can spend a lot of time being happy with, and then if she doesn't work out, they'll keep going until eventually they find they just want one to settle down with. The fact that the guys on this forum (myself included) are looking for a lot more casual sex than those guys can fool us into thinking that their neediness is somehow different to ours.

Neediness in either of those situations is about whether you're willing to stick to your standards or not. If you get a girlfriend who you're not really attracted to, who mistreats you, or who you're just not compatible with, then you're needy. If you're willing to sleep with girls you're not really attracted to, who mistreat you, or who you're just not compatible with, then you're needy.

[8_Ball]

Chaos Wrote:Newsflash, everyone needs validation, everyone needs affection, everyone needs to have the feeling he belongs. That's just human nature, you can deny it. There are levels, and more importantly there are different moments on your life, but that's always there, you can't undo it, and you shouldn't even try.

First things first: thanks for the newsflash!

Of course validation is great, and there is nothing bad about enjoying it. BUt there is a big difference between taking action BECAUSE OF the validation, or taking action and risks without caring about the result TOO MUCH (what Mark describes as "vulnerability")

freiheitlich Wrote:Why you think the desire for a girlsfried are needy? And Desire to have Sex with a girl is not?

This is not a question whether banging random chicks is less needy or somehow better than having a relationship, that is obviously a fake alpha believe. This is exactly about what Jon pointed out. When you are dating a lot and are able to attract a girl and specially to build emotional connection, you will meet a lot of hot girls with great personalities. If you date because you wanna have a relationship, what will happen is that you are more likely to focus on her good characteristics and forget about the bad ones. You will think "She might not be the girl i always wanted, but she is hot and interesting", so you go for it. Additionally, you will more likely stay in a relationship, even if it doesn´t work out, because at least you have a hot girlfriend, have sex on a regular basis and are not alone any more, right?

Now to your questions, the first one I think I already answered in my posts above. The desire to have sex can be needy, too. Also here it comes down to your motives, do you do it because you want prove smth. to you or anybody else (seeking validation--> needy) or do you do it because you are attracted to the girl and wanna sleep with her. Just to make it clear: having sex is a human basic need, because humans need to reproduce themselves. Being in relationship is not, because a) it is not necessary to reproduce ourselves (and even counterproductive from the biological/evolutional point of view); and b) the social comfort, which is a basic need, we can get more or less from friends/ family/ casual dating

Tim Wrote:"Guys who are trying to bang 100 girls usually need to get a girlfriend. Guys who are trying to get a girlfriend usually need to bang 100 girls."-Mark Manson

Neediness in either of those situations is about whether you're willing to stick to your standards or not. If you get a girlfriend who you're not really attracted to, who mistreats you, or who you're just not compatible with, then you're needy. If you're willing to sleep with girls you're not really attracted to, who mistreat you, or who you're just not compatible with, then you're needy.

I disagree, because lets say you meet a girl which is ok. Unless you are not attracted at all to her (in this case it would be desperate), there is nothing wrong or needy about having sex with her. Why you HAVE to be compatible with her just for having a ONS? I prefer it, too, but this not something thats has to be. It´s not my style honestly, but I can understand when guys taking ok girls home just to have sex. `

[Tim]

I don't think we disagree that much, I think you've just slightly misinterpreted me.

"The desire to have sex can be needy, too. Also here it comes down to your motives, do you do it because you want prove smth. to you or anybody else (seeking validation--> needy) or do you do it because you are attracted to the girl and wanna sleep with her."

I agree with this, and what I mean by compatible is just that you enjoy whatever you spend your time discussing with her, that you enjoy the places you meet or date her at, and that you wouldn't feel like she was a complete waste of time and effort if you never ended up sleeping with her. If you don't have any of that compatibility, and you are still trying hard to sleep with her, then I'd suggest you're needy.

Sure, if she's only ok then you still might want to sleep with her without it being needy, but if you're willing to go through boring conversations and boring dates just to get it, I'd say that's not the case.

[Matty]

I actually have read the book, and i'm well aware of his articulation of neediness. There's a huge difference between desperately not wanting to be alone, and wanting a relationship, which is a very normal human desire. In an emotionally healthy person, who understands that jumping into a relationship with someone they're not even that good with is disastrous, going around with the intention of finding a girlfriend (if your at that point in your life) is fine. Just don't jump into one with the first girl you find, and you should be good. Big difference between being needy and having legitimate human needs.

[Leo]

8_Ball Wrote:Be more openminded to other relationsship forms, try them out with different women, and if you really feel after some time that one of them is special and makes you much more happy then the others, and that you lost any interest in other women, then go for it. But again, [b]take it slow![/b]

My problem is: how satisfactory is other relationship form with somebody I don't like that much? For example: I've had FBs that gave me some experience but the relationship per se wasn't very satisfactoy, after sex I didn't have a huge desire to be with them because they didn't give me a lot of satisfaction. But when I find a girl that COULD be GF material I'm more interested to get to know her better, yeah I can't put all my eggs in one basket but you know when a girl has the potential for something good. Maybe is at this point when I become needy, but who doesn't want to be with a girl that makes you feel great? It is easy to don't feel needy with a girl that doesn't elicit a lot of good emotions in you, but it's hard to don't be needy with a girl that you enjoy her company and make you happy. Dating multiple girls at the same time help you to control your neediness for that special girl? I've heard a lot of people out of the communicaty say: Yeah, for me it's easy to find a GF but I usually fail with the girl that I really like. Maybe what is key is to take thing slowly, let it grow, get to know each other little by little. But, when I meet women in their 30s they want to go out with me ASAP if they are interested, they make it clear. Are they needy or are they just being honest with their emotions?