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crazyhorse · 12-17-2011 04:47 PM

it's definetly not 100% positive, lol. But that is because he's from the "I don't believe in game" crowd, off course those discussion often go nowhere due to the fact that x thinks game is that and y thinks something else.

for me game is just the removal of you're anti-seducer qualities. Once those are removed, it's all about looks, money, fame, popularity, status etc...

Feel free to comment in his comment section, it could a very interesting discussion.

http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/

Alvar · 12-17-2011 05:37 PM

Sounds like Aaron has very strong ideas about women/feminism and attraction.
Then again, he may have a case about height and fitness. I read part of his lay report book a couple of months ago and didn't find much there that I haven't done myself in the last 2 years, other than public sex. I'm 1,89 (~ 6 3") and reasonably fit and consider myself to be in the intermediate stage.

***Mark*** · 12-17-2011 05:52 PM

I was going to post this. Yeah, he was actually really cool about sending me the review before he posted it. There are some things he and I will have to simply agree to disagree about, but there are some criticisms that are valid.

I found his tone in general to be condescending. But hey, I guess a review from a guy who hates ALL pick up material saying, "Well, this one actually doesn't suck," is some kind of compliment... I guess... haha.

http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2011/12/...anson.html

crazyhorse · 12-17-2011 06:34 PM

I also find his views to be very black and white. He can also be very cynical. On the other hand I read his session of Q&A on reddit.com and he comes across as a totally different person. Far more plessant if you ask me.

http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.com/2011/12/...ughts.html

Leo · 12-17-2011 07:11 PM

He has a good question though, why your book is called Models? I don't get it.

crazyhorse · 12-17-2011 07:32 PM

Leo Wrote:He has a good question though, why your book is called Models? I don't get it.

haha my first thought as well when I read the title!

***Mark*** · 12-17-2011 07:59 PM

Models = Male role models
Models = Models of attracting women
Models = Banging HB10's bro!

Come on guys, most people I've talked to at least got two of the three. Wink

sledgehammer · 12-17-2011 08:17 PM

Seems to me like Aaron has submitted to the social conditioned brainwashing that its all about your looks height and money. Funny enough I know some tall good looking guys myself who have a very hard time hooking up with girls while their short average-looking friends seems to get all the attention in the bar.

Sleazy is absolutely overestamating the value height or looks is for a girl, a hot girl is so damn used to that shit its just "usual stuff".

Behaviour is way way way more important than having some supreme good looks as a guy, seems to me Aaron doesnt know what he is talking about, or he is just trying to be condesending, dont know which.

crazyhorse · 12-17-2011 08:32 PM

sledgehammer Wrote:Seems to me like Aaron has submitted to the social conditioned brainwashing that its all about your looks height and money. Funny enough I know some tall good looking guys myself who have a very hard time hooking up with girls while their short average-looking friends seems to get all the attention in the bar.

Sleazy is absolutely overestamating the value height or looks is for a girl, a hot girl is so damn used to that shit its just "usual stuff".

Behaviour is way way way more important than having some supreme good looks as a guy, seems to me Aaron doesnt know what he is talking about, or he is just trying to be condesending, dont know which.

His opinions are very black or white. But on the other hand if these tall, good looking men would be able to sort through their issues, they will always have it easier to get laid. That's just the way it is.

What I dislike about Aaron is that although he can give great advice, alot of times he's just soooo cynical. It really gets annoying to read.

statements such as height beat every category sound quite ridiculous to me (sort of like "looks don't matter"). Same with the Tom cruise example. Katie Holmes can just decide to go for a taller guy, after all she's also wealthy and famous. I'm 5f10 the last girl that approached me was at least 5f11. On average I'll probably hook up with a girl that's shorter then me, true, but there are always outliers. Second that with the fact that most women don't even get close to 5f10.I actually feel pretty safe.

While behavior is also important, your best investment is always going to be your looks. An ugly guy that is funny, is a funny guy. A good looking guy that is funny, is a great catch.

sledgehammer · 12-17-2011 09:50 PM

crazyhorse Wrote:His opinions are very black or white. But on the other hand if these tall, good looking men would be able to sort through their issues, they will always have it easier to get laid. That's just the way it is.

What I dislike about Aaron is that although he can give great advice, alot of times he's just soooo cynical. It really gets annoying to read.

statements such as height beat every category sound quite ridiculous to me (sort of like "looks don't matter"). Same with the Tom cruise example. Katie Holmes can just decide to go for a taller guy, after all she's also wealthy and famous. I'm 5f10 the last girl that approached me was at least 5f11. On average I'll probably hook up with a girl that's shorter then me, true, but there are always outliers. Second that with the fact that most women don't even get close to 5f10.I actually feel pretty safe.

While behavior is also important, your best investment is always going to be your looks. An ugly guy that is funny, is a funny guy. A good looking guy that is funny, is a great catch.

An ugly guy who is funny might aswell be a sexy guy, based on his behaviour. Aswell as a good looking guy that is funny can be an entertainer monkey without sexual presence at all.

TheBoss · 12-17-2011 09:52 PM

How do we know this guy is actually good lol?

***Mark*** · 12-17-2011 10:33 PM

I've worked with way too many tall, good-looking clients who were total headcases to give much credit to height and looks. I've also hung out with too many short guys who absolutely killed it too... Give me a short, ugly guy who is non-needy, assertive, has an awesome personality and lifestyle, over a tall, good-looking guy who's horribly needy, insecure and awkward any day. The short ugly guy would mop the floor with him.

Chaos · 12-17-2011 10:41 PM

Nonetheless, all things being equal height and looks do really help... So a non-needy, assertive tall good-looking guy would have the advantage over a non-needy assertive short average looking guy... That's just nature and not at all that important. Since there are so much girls and so little non-needy guys, the competition is just scarce so by being non-needy (something you can actually change) you do actually improve your chances... I don't think I can really do anything to grow 5 inches at my age... Tongue

sledgehammer · 12-17-2011 10:48 PM

Mark Wrote:I've worked with way too many tall, good-looking clients who were total headcases to give much credit to height and looks. I've also hung out with too many short guys who absolutely killed it too... Give me a short, ugly guy who is non-needy, assertive, has an awesome personality and lifestyle, over a tall, good-looking guy who's horribly needy, insecure and awkward any day. The short ugly guy would mop the floor with him.

Completely agree. Me myself is very muscular due to several years of weight training, Im good looking (Yes, in the classical sense as well developed jaw, eyebrows and good symmetry), I have dark eyes and dark hair, very easy to getting that sexy tan look. Yet Ive struggled like a mother fucker all my life cause of social insecurities and sexual anxiety, too many times when Ive "had it going" with a girl and ALMOST got it, some other douchebag short ugly asshole guy have stole her from me.

While I would say looks do make a difference, like any other shit like money or whatever, it aint even NEARLY as important as guys make it. Average looking dude who is very confident and assertive will KILL any good looking guy who is even half-insecure anyday.

Ive read a shit ton of seduction bullshit litterature but whats 100% legit in my experience is that girls are turned on primarly by DOMINANCE and all the shit that comes with it, being none needy, having your own shit going on, doing what you want when you want without looking for validation, having that "masculine presence". THATS whats turning women on, physical looks have a very minimal impact on the majority of chicks.

Funny thing is that the more experience I get, the more I start to realise this is true. Just some years ago I was absolutely convinced it was 100% looks and money, then after seduction I was like "well maybe its not everything but its very important!", now its like "nah, doesnt fucking matter, yeah sure you might have some advantage as a good looking guy but thats about it, nothing important".

Matt T · 12-17-2011 11:52 PM

Aaron Sleazy mentions height so much that he could pass for a Miscer.

I don't see why it should matter. I'm over 6 feet tall, but I'm here, aren't I?

crazyhorse · 12-18-2011 12:18 AM

sledgehammer Wrote:An ugly guy who is funny might aswell be a sexy guy, based on his behaviour. Aswell as a good looking guy that is funny can be an entertainer monkey without sexual presence at all.

sledgehammer Wrote:Completely agree. Me myself is very muscular due to several years of weight training, Im good looking (Yes, in the classical sense as well developed jaw, eyebrows and good symmetry), I have dark eyes and dark hair, very easy to getting that sexy tan look. Yet Ive struggled like a mother fucker all my life cause of social insecurities and sexual anxiety, too many times when Ive "had it going" with a girl and ALMOST got it, some other douchebag short ugly asshole guy have stole her from me.

While I would say looks do make a difference, like any other shit like money or whatever, it aint even NEARLY as important as guys make it. Average looking dude who is very confident and assertive will KILL any good looking guy who is even half-insecure anyday.

Ive read a shit ton of seduction bullshit litterature but whats 100% legit in my experience is that girls are turned on primarly by DOMINANCE and all the shit that comes with it, being none needy, having your own shit going on, doing what you want when you want without looking for validation, having that "masculine presence". THATS whats turning women on, physical looks have a very minimal impact on the majority of chicks.

Funny thing is that the more experience I get, the more I start to realise this is true. Just some years ago I was absolutely convinced it was 100% looks and money, then after seduction I was like "well maybe its not everything but its very important!", now its like "nah, doesnt fucking matter, yeah sure you might have some advantage as a good looking guy but thats about it, nothing important".

true but face it, if you're going to sort out you're self esteem issues, you will get more play due to your looks. Plus the mere fact that some women will gladly trade up with you after hooking up with some other guy. Off course if you're a headcase or a good looking guy with the personality of a sociopath, then off course it's not going to matter. Looks provide you with an amazing leverage effect, if you have the tools to use them wisely. I'll leave it at that.

What botters me is that his tone is very condescending. While he mentiones some positives, his review does leave you with a negative impression. Are you planning on writing a response back Mark in order to justify a few things? He left out a lot of of the positives from you're book, such as the 3 fundamentals.

***Mark*** · 12-18-2011 12:41 AM

Game is behavior. Looks are a multiplier. A great looking tall guy will have to put in less effort than a short guy, but he still has to put in effort and have his shit together.

Matty · 12-18-2011 12:47 PM

I'm convinced that height is nowhere near as important as some guys make it out to be. I've just known too many tall, good looking guys who don't get girls to buy into that one. And even if it was true, there's really nothing you can do. I'm just under 5'7, and aside from wearing boots and using certain wardrobe tricks, there's just not enough I can do about it to warrant me caring.

crazyhorse · 12-18-2011 01:49 PM

To be honest, I was quite surprised by his condescending attitude. Really a statement that "height overrides any criteria", that's the Tyler Durden's "looks don't matter" equivalent for the "its's all about looks crowd". I can still remember the thread were General G was complaining about his 5f10 height and telling everybody that it was the cause of his low succes rate. A couple of days later a tall guy came in and telling him that it isn't so much of an advantage and that your looks will always thrump youre height. The guy gave an example of his Highschool where it always was a shorter guy who also happenned to be very good looking that was very popular with the ladies. This is also my experience.

Sometimes I wonder whether men make up these statements just to make themselves look better. They think to themselves "oh I'm tall", I'm going to proclaim that only tall guys can get hot women and that height is by far the most important criteria.
- My first issue with this is that men generally suck at evaluating other men's level of physical attractiveness. I have a friend who all my female friends say is very good looking, yet all my male friends wonder why. I guess this is a competition aspect.
- From a scientific perspective height is by far the most easiest thing that you can measure, specially if you compare it with looks. While guys over 6 foot are objectively speaking easier to be classified as being tall, the same can't be said for facial symmetry. Having facial symmetry doesn't guarantee a women having attraction towards you. Just ask any of you're female friends about the opinion of two attractive men, you'll be amazed at how different their responses will be. You can do the same for you're male friends.
- If that statement would be true then 6f6 rowan atkinson would be able to compete in the looks department with 5f10 Orland Bloom and Johnny Depp. please don't tell me that you actually believe that? Oh did I mention Richard Gere?

I'm actually quite critical of the "behavior thrumps looks", since I find it to be very vague, leaving too much room for criticism. In my opinion it doesn't stand the test of reality, since I highly doubt that these women really think these guys are short and ugly. It also leaves out the fact that when you have to compete against a guy who's far better looking then you, he would have to make a lot of mistakes and screw up, while you probably arn't on her radar. But having such a negative attitude is just beyond my belief.

What annoys me the most is that he didn't even mention anything about the 3 fundamentals, something that is probably the best heuristic for dating that I've ever seen.

I think you should write a reply back Mark, just to make some things clear or to elaborate a bit more on certain key aspects.

Halo Effect · 12-18-2011 01:53 PM

I'm 6'4" and I've been told by quite a few girls that I look good. I had no experience with girls at all until I was 20, and not much of a social life to speak of. Plenty of social anxiety. When I was 20 years old, I got my first kiss, under the influence of a lot of alcohol and a very assertive girl. The next kiss was more than a year later.
Now that I'm more out of my shell, less anxious and more comfortable with my sexuality, I get results easier, but it's still only if I put myself out there.

Overall I thought that Sleazy guy was positive about the book. He just keeps saying that it's all about looks and money, but if you ignore that, the rest is very positive.

crazyhorse · 12-18-2011 01:58 PM

Halo Effect Wrote:I'm 6'4" and I've been told by quite a few girls that I look good. I had no experience with girls at all until I was 20, and not much of a social life to speak of. Plenty of social anxiety. When I was 20 years old, I got my first kiss, under the influence of a lot of alcohol and a very assertive girl. The next kiss was more than a year later.
Now that I'm more out of my shell, less anxious and more comfortable with my sexuality, I get results easier, but it's still only if I put myself out there.

Overall I thought that Sleazy guy was positive about the book. He just keeps saying that it's all about looks and money, but if you ignore that, the rest is very positive.

haha maybe within a few days I'll delete my post. Feeling a bit cranky today, lol

***Mark*** · 12-18-2011 02:44 PM

Eh, honestly I don't care enough crazyhorse. The guy is obviously pretty set in his opinions, and the condescending tone is expected from another coach in the industry, especially one who is trying to make a name for himself. And from a business point of view, his blog gets such little traffic, it's not really worth my time.

Like I said, considering this is a guy who shits on everything the industry puts out, I'm fine with his take on my book. A couple of his criticisms I even agree with (I want to re-write parts of Chapter 1 at some point; and the book is unnecessarily long in places).

I learned years ago that you can't please everyone and that there are always going to be a lot of haters in this industry. It's easy to get caught up in meaningless drama (ie., Sinn's 10-part video series shitting on Neil Strauss). I just stay focused on what I'm doing and trust that if I do good work the right people will find me.

crazyhorse · 12-18-2011 02:48 PM

Mark Wrote:Eh, honestly I don't care enough crazyhorse. The guy is obviously pretty set in his opinions, and the condescending tone is expected from another coach in the industry, especially one who is trying to make a name for himself. And from a business point of view, his blog gets such little traffic, it's not really worth my time.

Like I said, considering this is a guy who shits on everything the industry puts out, I'm fine with his take on my book. I learned years ago that you can't please everyone and that there are always going to be a lot of haters in this industry. It's easy to get caught up in meaningless drama (ie., Sinn's like 10-part video series bashing Neil Strauss). I stay focused on what I'm doing and trust that if I do good work people will find me.

You're definetly right about meaningless drama. Another pro at this is Ross Jeffries.

I can definetly understand that.

I just found that he left out a lot of great of stuff from you're book which left me feeling unsatisfied.

Matt T · 12-19-2011 02:19 AM

Halo Effect Wrote:Overall I thought that Sleazy guy was positive about the book. He just keeps saying that it's all about looks and money, but if you ignore that, the rest is very positive.

Most reviewers make broad positive statements to bookend otherwise negative reviews of books. It makes them appear more impartial to the eyes of a time-pressed copyeditor. You see this technique used all the time in academic journals like the American Historical Review.

In this case, I wouldn't characterize Sleazy's review as totally "negative", but it's worth noting that he gives specific examples for his "negative" points while not giving specific examples when praising the book.

Guess pickup is no different...

Edmond Dantès · 12-19-2011 11:52 AM

You can't please everyone and what kind of man are you if you're affected by a negative critique and and burst out in tears when in fact most of the reviews about this book were positive :o

I don't really like Sleazy's way of bashing the industry even though he is right in most of the things he criticises about the other coaches/companies..

Hey, I mean seriously, I wouldn't care so much about other people and their failures or their work or the things they do wrong. Just notice their weaknesses, do it better and the way you think it could work and success will come naturally.

Postmasculine