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Daygame a Big Lie - freiheitlich - 03-05-2012 10:37 AM
Hello,
Daygame is so useless. I do it right now 1,5 years, and i did almost 400 or more approaches and i have still no girlfriend, the only positive thing i get of this are a solid super confidence. I can not understand why some people have success with daygame (maybe they have not). Maybe it is a Lie and daygame do not work?
Daygame a Big Lie - Swimmer - 03-05-2012 11:11 AM
A lot of succesful "daygamres" are tall, good looking and worked out.
Daygame a Big Lie - freiheitlich - 03-05-2012 11:53 AM
Swimmer Wrote:A lot of succesful "daygamres" are tall, good looking and worked out.
I know a lot of "daygamers" (me included) they are also tall, good looking and worked out. but have no success with it. Where you see the pattern, because you sees like you have a lot of experiance with daygaming.
Daygame a Big Lie - Lyze - 03-05-2012 12:22 PM
That's Bullshit.
Daygame works, from Daygame I've picked up the most beautiful women, IMO it's easier than Clubgame. Also I don't think that it's so much about looking good. For instance I'm not tall (174cm, I think it's 5f 8) and all in all average looking.
Sure, if you're good looking it's a bonus, but it is much more about being confident, especially leading etc.
What do you do when you approach a women?
Lyze
Daygame a Big Lie - freiheitlich - 03-05-2012 12:26 PM
Lyze, how much daygame approachs you already did?
Daygame a Big Lie - Lyze - 03-05-2012 12:49 PM
I think about 600 or less, why?
Daygame a Big Lie - SeXyBaCk - 03-05-2012 02:58 PM
I never took notice when I approached someone i was interested in but I'm curious what the reasoning behind this classfication in day-game and night-game or club-game?
Your chance should be better when there's alcohol involved and women dress up hoping to meet guys, as opposed to just being out and about minding their business?
To me it seems natural the mood is different, in a club its dark, you dance, loud music, conversation is less important. What you say in broad daylight is perceived much more closely and maybe critically than in loud bar.
Hence what you're saying is more important. At the same time, meeting and connecting with someone on a cognitive mental or emotional level should definitely be easier to do outside of a club or bar, in a more private setting, like a café. That's my experience. Physically connecting easier at night while partying, because people just look better. Booze, lights and make up along with party clothes take care of that.
From my last 3 serious relationship all of them I met during the day.
Daygame a Big Lie - Chaos - 03-05-2012 03:51 PM
The bold statement "day game sucks" is completely unjustified. "Day game sucks for me " would be a much better one, or I suck at day game, since there's people who simply rock at day game... and they can be good looking or not, does not make a difference.
Daygame a Big Lie - Schmechti - 03-05-2012 03:55 PM
SeXyBaCk Wrote:From my last 3 serious relationship all of them I met during the day.
And that's the main difference and why so many people want to become good at daygame. The chance to find a girlfriend in daygame seems to be much higher. A lot of intelligent girls don't even go to parties.
Daygame a Big Lie - Peanut - 03-05-2012 04:04 PM
Chaos Wrote:they can be good looking or not, does not make a difference.
Yes it does.
The thing with daygame is that it's a more even balance between physical attraction and a social connection that needs to exist. I've never approached during the day, but I intend to because I think the odds of meeting someone I really want (as opposed to the best one that I can get that happens to be around) is much higher if you can approach in a decent fashion during the day than if you can only game at night or social circle (unless your social circle is very big). I wouldn't approach in the streets though unless a very clear signal is given. However at public transportation (stations and/or vehicle), (coffee)shops or basically anywhere that is either inside or forces someone to be stationary it should be just as easy as in a club.
Also, bear in mind that in a club you get compared (mainly physically) to all the other guys that have ever made themselves available to the girl in question. Even if she is attracted to you in the club, there is a decent chance there is a guy she is even more attracted to nearby that she knows she could probably get. During the day, you get compared to all the other guys that have approached her during the day which is either none or very few (it depends mainly on where you are, in some places it is more common than others). Guys that approach in a club don't show above-average personality per se, guys that approach during the day do, as long as they are not creepy/ugly. Therefore it is "easier" and as an additional plus you filter out people quicker who wouldn't like you for your personality which is probably why people who met each other during the day tend to stay together longer than those who meet in the nighttime.
Daygame a Big Lie - Chaos - 03-05-2012 04:16 PM
Yeah Peanut, that's what I meant when I said looks do not matter much in day game... you're actually making my point...
Daygame a Big Lie - Guyintheback - 03-05-2012 04:22 PM
Peanut Wrote:I wouldn't approach in the streets though unless a very clear signal is given. However at public transportation (stations and/or vehicle), (coffee)shops or basically anywhere that is either inside or forces someone to be stationary it should be just as easy as in a club.
For me it's quite the opposite. I don't think it is that hard to make a totally cold approach in the street. It maybe hard to hook the conversation, but it is a lot easier on my nerves, cause in case I get blown out I just keep on walking.
On the other hand I used to travel by train and bus a lot in the last year and actually got quite a few approach invitations, but almost never could get myself to act on them. The handful of cases I did turned into nice conversations though (no follow up due to logistics).
I realize that not acting is my own problem, but in a bus/train car I always feel that everybody else is listening in and just waiting for you to fail, with nowhere to go for you.
Daygame a Big Lie - playmaker001 - 03-05-2012 05:06 PM
@ Peanut: you sound very educated on the topic, but have yet to approach during the day soo...
@Freiheitlich: Out of 400 approaches, how many numbers have you gotten? how many rejections? lays? just curious. Also, would you mind posting a picture of yourself.
Curious to know step by step how you approach a girl also, be specific.
Daygame a Big Lie - TheBoss - 03-05-2012 05:24 PM
I've never had fun with day game. Walking around, approaching women, seems so tedious to me. Not to mention that you get so much anxiety and pretty much every number you get flakes. The best guy on our lair that does day game is 6'3, good looking, does coaching. I was going through his journal, his success rate is about 1.67%.
At least when you get shot down in a bar or a club, you can drink, play some pool, listen to music, etc. Day game, you just keep walking around, chasing after girls.
Daygame a Big Lie - playmaker001 - 03-05-2012 05:38 PM
@TheBoss: Ever heard the expression "speak for yourself ". Pretty much every number YOU get flakes. Doesn't mean it happens to everyone.
Did you ever think you might get so many flakes BECAUSE you're so anxious. Try Mark's approach program, it deals with that and focuses on both day game and night game. I'm hearing a lot of excuses from you.
Daygame a Big Lie - freiheitlich - 03-05-2012 05:39 PM
playmaker001 Wrote:@ Peanut: you sound very educated on the topic, but have yet to approach during the day soo...
@Freiheitlich: Out of 400 approaches, how many numbers have you gotten? how many rejections? lays? just curious. Also, would you mind posting a picture of yourself.
Curious to know step by step how you approach a girl also, be specific.
I do not know how many numbers. But i have ZERO lays.
Daygame a Big Lie - Lyze - 03-05-2012 05:47 PM
So how do you approach the girls?
Daygame a Big Lie - playmaker001 - 03-05-2012 05:59 PM
Yeah after 400 approaches or so, something's wrong if you have not one lay in my opinion. I wish I had a video or something of you approaching so we could see you in action. Maybe Mark can help you out...
Daygame a Big Lie - TheBoss - 03-05-2012 06:05 PM
playmaker001 Wrote:@TheBoss: Ever heard the expression "speak for yourself ". Pretty much every number YOU get flakes. Doesn't mean it happens to everyone.
Did you ever think you might get so many flakes BECAUSE you're so anxious. Try Mark's approach program, it deals with that and focuses on both day game and night game. I'm hearing a lot of excuses from you.
It's not just me. I haven't done too many day game approaches, but I've done enough to know that I don't enjoy doing them. And I'm not too anxious. I'm speaking in general terms. I have gone out solo during the day on a few occasions, and done a good amount of approaches. It's just I never enjoyed it.
I know a few guys that I have done a ton of approaches, and the effort to reward ratio is ridiculously low. There was one guy I knew, he did about 1500 approaches, and only had 2 lays. There was almost no hesitation on his part when it came to approaching, most of the girls he approached would seem to be into him, but at the end of the day he would still get a ton of flakes.
Even Paul Janka has admitted that he converts only 11% of the numbers he gets into lays. Put that together with the amount of approaches he does, and you can see that it takes a lot of work to get laid during the day.
Now I know, the same can be said for night time. But in my opinion, you at least get to something fun along with approaching women.
Daygame a Big Lie - Mark - 03-05-2012 06:10 PM
Your success in day game is basically determined 90% by how normal and casual you come across... if you never have success in day game, then it means you're socially not very calibrated and not coming across as normal and casual.
And btw, that 11% number is from total approaches, not just numbers.
Daygame a Big Lie - TheBoss - 03-05-2012 06:23 PM
Mark Wrote:Your success in day game is basically determined 90% by how normal and casual you come across... if you never have success in day game, then it means you're socially not very calibrated and not coming across as normal and casual.
And btw, that 11% number is from total approaches, not just numbers.
"I’ve found that I sleep with 11% of the women whose
numbers I get (more on this later). That breaks down to two girls for every three days of
numbers, more-or-less."
From: http://www.pauljanka.com/formula/sample.pdf
If we do the math, this means it's 2 girls per 18 numbers. 2/18=0.11 . I have no idea what his number close rate is, but he does seem to be doing a lot of approaches in rapid fire basis.
Btw, I'm not trying to say that day game is completely useless. It's just lot of people have the idea that it's easier than club game, which I don't think is true. Club game you can at least get makeouts easily. Maybe it's just a personal preference of mine, but w/e lol.
Daygame a Big Lie - Lyze - 03-05-2012 07:15 PM
TheBoss Wrote:Btw, I'm not trying to say that day game is completely useless. It's just lot of people have the idea that it's easier than club game, which I don't think is true. Club game you can at least get makeouts easily. Maybe it's just a personal preference of mine, but w/e lol.
Yeah you can get make outs easily but make outs is one thing, getting laid is another.
As Mark said it's all about coming across normal, so if you're approaching direct you have to mean it, if you're approaching indirect it should be a short question or something which you are really curious about/interested in. And if you are anxious the whole time you're definitely doing something wrong. Go out with some wingman, have fun, make dumb approaches to get over your AA and be "natural".
I think the only difficult thing is the leading and the most guys who I've met and weren't good at Daygame, had the problem that they weren't leading the conversation. But if you think about it, it's really important: Most of the girls never get approached on the street, so if you just ask something and milk the opener they will think "Oh okay he only has a question" and afterwards it will be creepy if you start to hit on her and if you approach her direct she will be thinking (if you say it confident and mean it) "Oh my god I've never been in such a situation, what should I say?"
So in both situations you have to lead the conversation.
And also it's important because of bouncing, get her to an instant date, exchanging numbers etc.
Btw a cool trick from a friend is (after talking to her about 5 minutes, if you are on the street) to ask her which way she was headed and then go along with her. His explanation:"If you approach a girl on the street, most of the time they have to do something, so if she's busy she probably be less open to talk to you because you are becoming an obstacle."
The next thing that many guys are doing wrong is that they start to hit on the girl, like they are in the club. If you approach indirect, a few teases are more than enough, rapport/comfort (whatever you call it) is much more important. When you approach direct it's anyway mostly just about comfort, because if you approach her this way she will be enough attracted just because you have such balls.
I don't get the arguments of the most guys here. Just because some coach isn't successful or you're not getting results it doesn't mean that it's not working or more difficult etc.
It's not working for you and it's more difficult for you.
For me and my friend for instance it's much easier and by now (after practicing) we mostly use it to talk to girls who we see when we're in the city and doing some stuff and we think are really hot.
Lyze
Daygame a Big Lie - Christian - 03-05-2012 07:31 PM
An Austrian journalist made the experiment of asking women during the day directly for sex and wrote about it in a later article.
If I recall correctly he got 4 lays for 100 approaches. He's also looking pretty average, but he's well-dressed and seems socially calibrated.
You can probably up this quite a bit if you're not THAT direct in stating your interest.
I had to complete a similar task in a program designed to reduce AA and his data seems plausible, got 1 lay from 30 approaches and I was a total beginner when I did this.
What I have to admit is that approaching walking people on the street never produced any results for me.
Gosh, this PU-language sounds weird!
@Mark: Do you really get a 10% quota on daytime approaches? How come that Janka only gets about 10% on numbers? What do you do differently in comparison to him?
Daygame a Big Lie - Lyze - 03-05-2012 07:43 PM
Christian Wrote:An Austrian journalist made the experiment of asking women during the day directly for sex and wrote about it in a later article.
If I recall correctly he got 4 lays for 100 approaches. He's also looking pretty average, but he's well-dressed and seems socially calibrated.
You can probably up this quite a bit if you're not THAT direct in stating your interest.
Gosh, this PU-language sounds weird!
Yep and also, before someone comes and says "Yeah but I think they were all ugly", one of them was a FHM model.
Daygame a Big Lie - Tim - 03-05-2012 07:44 PM
Christian Wrote:Gosh, this PU-language sounds weird!
Haha yep, and you mainly realise that when you talk to people with no PUA background. I don't even say daygame now. The only word I'm comfortable using is 'approach', because I know my friends wouldn't look at me confusedly if I used it.
And yeah, meeting women during the day isn't bullshit as a whole Freitlich, maybe it just doesn't work for you. Being socially aware and well adjusted is definitely the problem for most guys during the day. With a huge sample number eventually you're going to meet a woman who you're very compatible with, and then you just have to let your personality speak for itself. If that isn't happening then it's most likely due to an inability to communicate your personality, either because of anxiety, or because you're a bit socially unadjusted. Best way to fix the anxiety is with something like Mark's program. Best way to fix social awareness is to meet a lot of people, preferably those who are quite a different type from those already in your social circle, and by traveling away from your home city or country, and being observant. Then when you go look at your own friends and yourself again, you have a wider perspective to understand yourself with.