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Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Devilboy - 12-14-2011 12:50 AM
Hello everyone. Ive gotten so much out of Marks articles so I felt I had to contribute my own experiences in the game this far.
I got into this whole thing in 2007, by then I was 18 years old and had never kissed a girl, I spent my time playing computer-games, watching series and well yeah, going to school. Every weekend when other people went out socialising and partying I was home infront of my computer playing with my interent team-mates.
One day I stumpled upon the book you all probably know about, "The Game", I think I read thru it all in 1.5days and I just couldnt stop reading. FINALLY there was a system out there which I could learn so I could get a girlfriend, me, a virgin loner whos top skills in life was in counter-strike. The thing was, I wasnt really bullied around or some shit like that, from the first day at class 1 until I was about 14-15years old I had friends whom I hung out with every day so I wasnt a COMPLETE loser "from scratch", it was just that I basicly isolated myself for 3-4years playing games instead of developing my social skills like all my other friends. The-Game and later on the mystery method gave me some kind of "supreme self confidence", It was a feeling like "I had it", I knew the skills now, I knew what to do, how to do it and the reason behind why everything worked (Evolutionary psychology).
Within 6months I slept with 8 new girls, now this might not be alot to you, but coming from a guy who had never ever kissed a girl, this was literally crazyness for me. What I came to understand later on was that it wasnt especially the techniques and routines that gave me this success, but the feeling of confidence that I was the man. Damn, I didnt even have so many routines, just some basic stuff to get things going. Even when the girls rejected me I just told myself "its my game that needs practise, its not personal, its not me thats taking the rejection, its just a game", this mindset made me try stuff I never ever before even dared to think of.
Anyway, 6months and some more lays later I got my first girlfriend, this relationship lasted about 2 years and I can honestly say it was the best 2 years of my life. Game gave me motivation to change my style aswell, also taking up bodybuilding as a hobby. My life was way better by now, my self confidence was very good, I felt motivated, on fire, never second guessing myself.
However, I stumpled upon this company named "Real Social Dynamics" who was supposed to teach "natural game", this sounded great, cause I knew myself it wasnt the routines that gave me success but the confidence behind them, and RSD preached to teach guys "core confidence" which made you never ever have to get your confidence from external factors ever again.
I watched the blueprint, didnt get it at all, but Tyler promised that you should get more and more out of it every time you watched. Well, under a period of time I watched the shit like 3-4 times and ALL I got out of it was self consiousness, even tho I had previous success with girls and even from start wasnt totally fucked up, I was now in a period of my life where I was the MOST ANXIOUS EVER. Not even as a 10 year old I was this anxious and insecure. Literally, I second guessing myself in ALL social interactions, even with close friends.
My friends asked me what I had done, why I was so "Weird", so "quiet", so "stiff". I was completely unable to make new friends and my "pu skills" went to shit. I cannot put the finger on EXACTLY what it was, but it was this kind of weird feeling of not "knowing it all yet", so I couldnt give myself permission to be confident, to be the dude I knew I was capable of, it was like I was hooked into RSDs teachings in a never ending search for the "golden knowledge".
I remember going away 5 weeks on vacation and bartender eductaion in thailand with some friends (about 5000dollars total) and almost all the time down there I felt self consious and weird, a feeling I never ever had before, not even in my days as a computer games geek.
I got into some kind of weird obsessiveness where I continued to visit the rsd forum forum, read all the instructors articles, watch all the videos. Reading articles by Alex about "deep inner game" where he discussed how you had to be ego-less to be good with girls, that if you were ego driven you were basicly fucked. The advice was completely contradictional, from the one direction I heard "Narcissism! Extreme self love! Be fucking ruthless! Caveman!" and from the other end I heard "Kill your ego, have self esteem, self is always shining thru". I was literally confused as fuck.
It was like I had to get a completely new understanding of ALL social dynamics, even tho I already knew way more than the average person due to my pursuet into regular seduction material. Little did I understand that words like "unreactive", "be the gorilla", "beast bro", "masculine polarity", "self esteem instead of ego" were just other words for "dont seek validation from others", "framecontrol", "be dominant", "be a man" and "feel good about yourself insetad of always looking for others to determine who you are". Its obvious now, but back then I didnt see it, I didnt see the fact that RSD basicly had taken old school concepts and just put a new name on them to make them "theirs" and also making them slightly confusing so students would ALMOST get it but not completely, making them come to RSD for more advice and hopefully making them take a bootcamp to "sort things out".
Also, the brainwashing going on at their forum is really evil. Basicly they are deleting almost all threads where members are questioning their teachings, their skills or negative bootcamp reviews. The fanboyerism is huge, if you for one second dont agree with one of the instructors you will get FLAMED LIKE CRAZY. They also literally flame everyone who post normal down to earth practical advice and instead they worship everyone who make posts including things like "ego", "deep philosophy of outcome dependance", "being in the now", "Tyler is so cool", "I love jeffys mullet" etc etc.
The thing that got me out of all that crazyness was actually stumpling upon some articles my Mark one evening some months ago doing some random search on google. Some article by state being overrated and some other very cool articles. Also one thing that saved me out of the RSD hole was (And I know people on here wont like this, I dont like the place neither but atleast reading on there got me thinking about the bullshit going on at rsdnation) the pua hate forum. Seeing people on there nagging about them being fucked up by RSD got me thinking that "yeah, thats EXACTLY what happened to me", also some posts from some psychology dude with NLP skills breaking down alot of the instructor posts into manipulation techniques set my mind straight that this shit was really unhealthy.
Anyway, after gotten my mind straight again I deleted ALL material from RSD, I made mods ban my account and the only things I had left on my PC was: 1. Magic bullets by lovesystems as a structure to have in mind internalising while socialising so I knew what to do, and also 2. Lots of articles by mark, thats it. And those 2 things together made my game and mindset way better than anything from RSD ever, after some months I was back on track and I could finally feel I was "myself" again but with just some extra skills and basic knowledge of game and how to be better socially. Now my life is good again, I have a new girlfriend and a bigger circle of friends than ever.
I do really believe that inner-game is extremely over-rated, you dont need supreme inner game or super self confidence to get alot of girls, in fact, some girls ive been with I got cause of NOT being that super confident cocky guy and just more chill so they could relate to me. I also think that the mindset you get of inner game is that you NEED very good inner game to pull shit off, and that belief completely fucks you up. Also knowledge about factors you dont really have control over (Like who is reacting to more or state) can absolutely fuck you up.
I also do think that outer-game is overrated, BUT atleast its practical and if you just take some nuggets here and there and apply to your own personality, combined with going out alot socialising you will good much faster than getting stuck in that inner game circle jerk.
The thing that helped me was some basic knowledge about female psychology and biology, why they go for guys who they perceive as having higher status than them, that you shouldnt qualify yourself, why you should be shameless about your sexuality, how to behave like a man, how to stand out and being a challange getting girls to chase you and invest in you instead of you always being the pursuer, how to start conversations with people and fastly making them comfortable with your presence, how to be a better conversationalist and also knowledge how to be better in bed.
The things that fucked me up the most was concepts like no-ego, state, entitlement, extreme self love, nimbuz, the claw, dont give a shit, acting like a drunk fratboy, acting like a sexual predator making people believe im fucking weird, apocalypse opener, who is reacting more than the other amongs with lots of others from RSD.
Well thats what I had to say, maybe someone can relate to my experience, or maybe someone could take my story into account before getting to deep into that RSD shit. Thankyou for your time.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Brian - 12-14-2011 04:43 AM
Absolutely man. I felt the most self conscious was back when i listen to some of rsd concepts. I start to place importance on bullshits like state and start to believe if i'm not in state, girls would not find me attractive. After 6 months of that shit, i got out and felt it's the biggest waste of time mindfuck ever.
RSD was absolute garbage. Hell, I joined puahate and even became a mod there JUST because of my dislike of rsd alone(of course later on, i found out about other scammers like Brent Smith, Johnny soporno etc). Hell, ironically, the first time i heard of Mark's materials was from that site. He used to post in barry kirkey's site and some of the stuff he said actually made sense so i took a look further of his materials lol. So yeah, promoting on puahate works
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Guyintheback - 12-14-2011 10:05 AM
I read so many bad things here about RSD: Is that the company that was founded by Tyler Durden from "The Game"?
I don't think I know any of there products.
Then again, while I read the "Venusian Arts Handbook" and "Magic Bullets", the things that help(ed) me the most are "Double Your Dating", "Attraction" and some of Mark's articles. Probably due to the fact that I have never been comfortable learning routines and structures.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Matty - 12-14-2011 10:19 AM
Isn't it ironic that a system based on the idea of being confident and relaxed actually makes you self-concious and awkward. I had a similar experience, although I remained too skeptical to fully jump on the RSD bandwagon. And thankfully I never tried the claw! When it comes to woman, i've started to take an Occam's Razor approach, and I find that usually the simplest thing to do or say is usually the one you should go with. My biggest challenge is really to turn my fucking brain off when talking to woman, and reading a shit ton of inner game theory is extremely counter productive. That's what I like about Mark's ideas, because a.) he's not a misogynist, overcompensating douchebag like a lot of the RSD instructors, and b.) he really just keeps it simple. After years of reading all this pickup shit, I think he was the first guy I ever heard who said that all you really had to do was relax, go up and say "hi", rather than the RSD "step up like a bomb going off", which really just puts huge pressure on you.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Chaos - 12-14-2011 11:45 AM
Devilboy Wrote:Hello everyone. Ive gotten so much out of Marks articles so I felt I had to contribute my own experiences in the game this far. The-Game and later on the mystery method gave me some kind of "supreme self confidence", It was a feeling like "I had it", I knew the skills now, I knew what to do, how to do it and the reason behind why everything worked (Evolutionary psychology).Exactly the same happened to me, then after 6 months it started fading out because it just stopped being "something new" and the same lines, the same routines, would fail miserably... Later I would realized that the lines and routines in themselves didn't matter a bit, but kept the openers for it was easier to approach that way and seemed to ease the interaction... basically I was rejected a lot less... which does not mean I was laid a lot more...
Another 6 months I realized two things... indirect openers would normally just be a waste of time... it was the way you approached, your confidence, how you were feeling and of course if the girl was already into you that helped a lot... so basically the indirect opener would just make me lost time while I gather the balls to actually kiss the girl or express my intentions...
The other thing I noticed is that I was uncomfortable with indirect openers... specially with opinion openers... they will seem out of place and I couldn't be congruent with them... so only already attracted girls will fall for them anyway...
By that time I was in a mood where all PUA material I found sounded simply like assholes thinking I was stupid, things like:
In this program you'll get:
- An infalible method that works with every women.
- The means to get laid FAST
- A FIELD-TESTED routine based garbage collected problem free method to approach and fuck every women you meet...
all this in long pages with bright colors (seriously, is 1990 all over again)... RSD is included there but I could also cite Style Academy, Gamble products and some other...
And then I found this blog... well I found the old one but anyway it was kind of refreshing... Like Mark does not treats you like you're stupid or isn't unrealistic ...Like if you see the Models page... simple, and clear... two days later I bought the book (one of the best buys I've ever made)
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Devilboy - 12-14-2011 01:07 PM
Matty Wrote:Isn't it ironic that a system based on the idea of being confident and relaxed actually makes you self-concious and awkward. I had a similar experience, although I remained too skeptical to fully jump on the RSD bandwagon. And thankfully I never tried the claw! When it comes to woman, i've started to take an Occam's Razor approach, and I find that usually the simplest thing to do or say is usually the one you should go with. My biggest challenge is really to turn my fucking brain off when talking to woman, and reading a shit ton of inner game theory is extremely counter productive. That's what I like about Mark's ideas, because a.) he's not a misogynist, overcompensating douchebag like a lot of the RSD instructors, and b.) he really just keeps it simple. After years of reading all this pickup shit, I think he was the first guy I ever heard who said that all you really had to do was relax, go up and say "hi", rather than the RSD "step up like a bomb going off", which really just puts huge pressure on you.
Hi man. Yeah I think the idea has 100% truth in it, I mean, duh! Ofcourse girls respond better when you are confident and relaxed, enjoying yourself! But, I really think RSD do a shit job teaching it, they're saying you should be confident and relaxed, but they way they are teaching the concepts to you are fucked up. They say shit like state is the key, then 1 week after you have another instructor saying state is bullshit, then in another article you see Tyler writing about state again. I actually start to believe they do that on purpose to keep their students slightly confused and from a marketing standpoint it seems to work out pretty fucking good, I mean, they suck people in making them become fanboys very effecetively.
I dont think theres no company out there that are as damaging as RSD. I mean, with love systems and venusian arts you might get a little bit weird if youre totally fucked up from the get go and doesnt take the advice with a grain of salt, I mean, you could be a social robot running around asking girls opinion all night or whatever, but thats pretty easy to get by. With RSD, you essentialy alot of times have to change your whole psychology, you have to learn new concepts, alot of concepts which you probably already know of if u have studied even a grain of salt of psychology or eastern philosophy or self help but with different names this time. You get the mindset you have to "change your whole personality" AKA deep identity level change, you think you have to be in a super good state all the time, so on and so forth.
Another thing that really opened my eyes were when I got some more understanding about how Tyler is teaching the blueprint, this is quoted from some psychology-dude who saw the program:
Random person wrote: actually he said there 'trust your own judgment, be your own guru, stop looking up to others'.
Psych dude answer: he also said you should always be thinking for yourself. it's all an illusion of control, really.
it's easy for him to say that, but 14 hours into a deeply immersive seminar the only things you're comparing new concepts to are the other new ones you just 'learned' since the beginning (and are equally unverified)
from Combatting Cult Mind Control:
Quote:Unfreezing
To ready a person for a radical change, his reality must first be shaken up. His indoctrinators must disorient him. His frames of reference for understanding himself and his surroundings must be challenged and broken down. Upsetting his view of reality disarms his natural defenses against concepts that challenge his reality.
then, after the blueprint is over you're left more confused about the world than ever before, looking to RSD and tyler for guidance (you're not going to get it from anyone in the 'real' world, because they don't understand this 'new knowledge' anyway) all the while actually believing this situation is a good thing.
there are logical and explainable mechanisms behind RSD and why it works (and subsequently goes off in your head like a bomb).
-------------
Then another quote from the same guy:
Psych dude: It's pretty scary, one of the cultiest things Tyler did in the blueprint was the first break they took in the seminar:
Quote:Let's slow it down, now when we go on this break, i'm gonna teach you guys a trick. It's a very important trick. Have you guys ever heard of the grey zone? On one level you have plugged in, focused, working, in the zone, focused. On the other hand you have unplugged, and relaxing. The grey zone is when you're half in one half in the other. You guys might wanna start going out and start talking about game and pickup and all this... why don't you guys go out and socialize and just talk about whatever. Just chat. Because you wanna know the truth? That's a lot closer to what pickup really is than talking about tactics.
On one hand, sure, he has a point. The concept itself isn't the problem, but how he's using it in the seminar is.
Essentially, he's just laid the foundation for RSD (this break was about 1-2 hours in) and everyone was about to walk outside and socialize with each other for the first time. You can imagine what the discussion was like "Oh blah blah blah basketball (lolol this grey zone thing is fucking cool lol) blah blah oh that's cool dude"
Now could you imagine what have went down without it? Any of Tyler's concepts would have been open to be shot down. "I don't get it.. where's he going with this social conditioning nonsense? This guy's retarded, what does any of this have to do with pickup? blah blah blah"
Even just the slightest doubt could have propagated throughout the whole group, leaving the success of the internalization pretty much up for grabs, and people could have walked away thinking RSD was just some other pseudoscientific garbage program.
But in grey zone, anyone even briefly mentioning the program could have easily been labeled as a dumbass 'chode', and expressed doubts could be chalked up to 'just not fully understanding it yet'
------------------
You see? All their programs are filled with shit like that. Ever noticed how in every RSD seminar the instructor tries to get compliance from you, very often from the start? Like in flawless natural, tim says "I want everyone to stand up and say YES!!". Or Tyler 20000 times in blueprint makes the guys shout "feel good!". Or in almost ALL videos Ive seen with RSD, free tour videos or seminars the instructors are ALWAYS asking the audience questions, engaging them, now thats all fine I guess, but RSD are doing this to make them compliant and "suck them in".
They're all about making the students get good feelings so they rationalise it as "being an awesome program/seminar/weekend", despite of many times bad practical advice. Just take a look at random comments from their videos they put up now and then, or articles, their mindcontrol in action:
"second video was the best shit ive ever watched IN MY LIFE. back to my todo-list which involves joining the lair tonight and going out. whadup"
"HOLY SHIT, TYLER. That story's fucked up haha. All of that video was awesome though."
"I loved the 2 video ! It was like a deja-vu, it was like watching FIGHT CLUB 2 lol !!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Owen aka Tyler"
"The second video made me realise I'm at a level that is too low, that I'm an ant right now, and it's a kind of nice realisation actually, it feels good, some weight lifted off my shoulder"
"just had to pause the second video to post this. i literally said: 'fuck this dude is amazing' "
"WOW THIS IS THE BEST THING IVE READ IN MY LIFE! My inner core literally went BAAM! btw could you elaborate on the concept of extreme congruence vs incongruent pua-behaviour?"
Thats the result of RSDs brainwashing. You also see students post shit like this, rationalising their fucked up behaviours:
Quote:SirKonstantine Wrote:
Saturday:
Pulled the hottest chick I ever talked to. She looks like Jesica Alba. Powerhouse took the fat friend. We go to their place. Powerhouse is fucking the friend. My girl gives me LMR. She won't take dress off. She would only pull it up to her stomach. She won't take panties off. I finger her threw her panties. She comes. I try to push farther, she doesnt let me. I take a step back. Go back in.
an hour and a half later and she still has her dress on and her panties on. FUCK THIS ....... She falls asleep. Like, she is snoring asleep. I just jacked off on her sheet to prevent blue balls. Me and powerhouse went threw their wallets and took their money. Give me LMR bitch? I'm gonna mug you.
We leave the room and counted the money in the hallway. Ha! Its $120. We walk towards the exit and realized that they have free continental breakfast here. We sit down and eat breakfast. Then we leave.
I realized that I'm gonna do this Fuck'n Mug more often now. Its fucking genius.
So yeah, theres alot of shit going on there which you dont see before uve actually "broken free from the net".
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Halo Effect - 12-14-2011 02:54 PM
I googled that last quote by SirKonstantine to check if it was real.
I found it. The guy has an active journal on the RSD board. There were multiple guys saying he was awesome or hilarious for stealing the money (of course more guys telling him he was scum, but that's to be expected)! His game is basically borderline rape all the time. It's interesting, because he gets results. Being an extremely sexually agressive, fearless, extremely dominant asshole gets you laid. But he also frequently has women literally running away from him. Sometimes even after sex or sexual acts with him. He creates absolutely zero connection. As one drunk girl apparently told him "No I don't know why I keep on following you but I know you are not a good man". She followed him, but then she'd run away from him because he gave her evil vibes.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Guyintheback - 12-14-2011 09:41 PM
That Konstantine guy reads borderline sociopath to me.
Yeah, he has better results than I do. But I'd never want to switch personalities with him. Call me a nice guy if you want to, but that's no way to treat women. Or humans at all.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Mark - 12-14-2011 10:27 PM
Thanks for sharing. Back in 2007, before I started coaching, I posted an LR with a question on RSDNation. It was a pretty advanced question and I hadn't gotten many decent answers anywhere else. The guys on RSDNation flamed me for "inventing" an LR and gave me the whole "lose your ego" spiel that they give everyone and tried to tell me that I had no self-esteem. When I replied that I didn't make anything up, this was a legitimate scenario where I wanted advice, albeit high-level advice, and then noted that I had no trouble with people believing me on any other forum, and that lecturing someone you don't know about their ego and self-esteem is about as egocentric and arrogant as it gets, I was immediately banned and my thread deleted. That was enough for me to know those guys were full of shit. And that's before I heard all of the countless bootcamp horror stories over the last four years.
Some people love it, but I found The Blueprint to be a mangled piece of ripped off self help gibberish... I've met some guys who got a lot out of it. But I've also met a number of guys like you who got fucked up by it. For what it's worth, I do like Natural Tim's stuff, although it's fairly common sense and straight forward (have fun, express yourself, touch a lot).
All in all, they're the only company I will openly talk badly about and go on record advising guys to NOT give them money. Not all of their content is bad. But their business practices are immoral imo. This is an industry where the consumers happen to be very vulnerable and easily manipulated, and RSD takes full of advantage of that for financial gain. Fuck those guys.
And glad to hear my stuff helped you get out of your hole.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Brian - 12-14-2011 10:41 PM
They do make quite a bit of money though. Back when i lived in the eastcoast, it's not uncommon for me to see tons of people taking rsd bootcamp. Consequently they're some of the most annoying human being i've ever met.
Corruption and immoral works. I heard newt grinrich made almost 70 millions lobbying and being a corrupted politicians. I gotta admit, this world do reward piece of shit stupid amount of money.
Why you should AVOID RSD, my story - Matt T - 12-14-2011 11:37 PM
Got a good laugh from the Konstantine story. Sounds like a pretty vindictive guy.
Also I found it amusing that some dude in the thread said "Real Burgler Dynamics" in response to Konstantine's "Fuck-and-Mug".