Not sure if this is the right place to post this so feel free to move or delete this.
Anyways, I live in the US and I think that if prostitution was legal, there would be a sizable change in dating dynamics between men and women.
Here are some reasons.
1. Access to sex would eliminate one of women's largest bargaining chips. If a guy can get sex by paying for it, he would be less inclined to pursue a girl that may not be right for him just so that he can get laid.
2. Women would be mindful of this and would not have as much of an entitled attitude regarding sex.
3. Men will have more access to sex and will be able to focus on things other than getting laid, thus making them more attractive in the long run.
Now I know some guys can get laid whenever they want but they are in the minority. I assume this would not affect them as much as other guys.
Anyways, let me know what you all think, regardless of if you agree with me or disagree with me!
No way. I live in a country of legalized prostitution and it has done very little (aka nothing) to change mainstream dating. I don't know why you assume legalization is the biggest reason guys don't indulge in prostitution. For most guys it's an issue of morality and sex, with a prostitute not being able to provide most of the things guys are looking for when they go out to 'score', namely; some sort of connection, the thrill of the chase, and a form of validation from being desired by another woman. I can't imagine going to a prostitute for sex, and I think all my male friends feel the same.
The only way prostitution would change mainstream dating society is if it became completely morally acceptable by society, but even then the majority of guys would never go to a prostitute in their lifetime. Most would still find it didn't provide the needs that they are truly looking for when they go out with the intention of getting laid.
Thanks for your international perspective, Tim. I do agree that prostitution is at best, a temporary bandaid to the larger problem of not being desired by a woman.
I personally, do not have a moral problem with prostitution, but I think it can often be an unhealthy substitute for the love of a real woman, like watching porn or going to the strip club.
Looks like I may be wrong on this one!
It won't solve anything. Prostitution has been around since the dawn of time and it doesn't affect men/women dynamics much, if at all.
From a woman's perspective, knowing you can pay for it doesn't lessen their power, it simply just makes you more pathetic and desperate.
From a man's perspective, knowing you had to pay for it just makes you feel more pathetic and desperate. Instead of paying for a prostitute a man would be much better of spending that money to improve his wardrobe, his looks, and his interest/hobbies.
Men have a ton of power....the age of feminization have simply convinced men to be ashamed of it. It's completely false. Men have a ton of power; biologically, sexually, and socially. Men and women have different forms of power that needs to be combined to form strong bonds, unions, and families. The "you don't need no man" mantra have hurt both men and women equally.
As for men who can get laid when they want being in the minority - yes, in this day and age of brain washing and feminization of men, it does make it the minority. HOWEVER, it doesn't have to be. Men that can laid with attractive women on a consistent basis are not any more special than the guys who can't. The differences are in the way they think, the actions they take, and their willingness to fail. That doesn't make them special it just means there are skills and concepts that can be learned and applied to make your life positive, healthy, and desirable.
Read the no-more-porn thread for this forum's view on porn Vytas... Honestly, anyone who claims porn has had either no effect or a huge effect on men's sexuality makes me roll my eyes. Sure, it's definitely made a lot of guys less realistic in their expectations in what women 'should' look like, and it can lower your sex drive, but I don't think it's been ruinous for modern dating. The majority of my sexual anxieties and unrealistic expectations came more from pop culture as a whole, and from my own issues that existed for a variety of reasons. Porn probably made them worse, but it seems like a lot of writers' personal agenda against porn blows its effects out of proportion.
Thanks guys for sharing you perspectives on this. I think you all make really good points and I am now inclined to change my opinion on this.
As for porn, I think it definitely had a detrimental effect on my sexuality. But I stopped and things are getting better!
(03-22-2012 06:57 PM)Creatine Dreams Wrote: [ -> ]2. Women would be mindful of this and would not have as much of an entitled attitude regarding sex.
They're not!! Please review that preconception, they generally DO NOT feel that way, no matter what you might believe. More to the point, if you think they have that attitude you'll project it into them then making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You are your own worst enemy.
I am actually pretty refreshed that people disagree with my initial post. This is useful towards me evolving as a person.
My sexual anxieties (and issues in general) are almost entirely caused by popular culture (or issues with Indian culture), and porn has literally nothing to do with them. Therefore, I have a pretty low opinion of this "no-porn" stuff. I honestly think that it's just the latest manifestation of religious vilification of pornography. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
Regarding the topic, I don't think much would change. We're not in the 1800s anymore, when seeing prostitutes was a normal part of every man's life. Men would still be societally shamed for it.
(03-22-2012 09:10 PM)Tim Wrote: [ -> ]That would be a bit strong, don't you think? There is always intimiacy, which can't be faked.
Read the no-more-porn thread for this forum's view on porn Vytas... Honestly, anyone who claims porn has had either no effect or a huge effect on men's sexuality makes me roll my eyes. Sure, it's definitely made a lot of guys less realistic in their expectations in what women 'should' look like, and it can lower your sex drive, but I don't think it's been ruinous for modern dating. The majority of my sexual anxieties and unrealistic expectations came more from pop culture as a whole, and from my own issues that existed for a variety of reasons. Porn probably made them worse, but it seems like a lot of writers' personal agenda against porn blows its effects out of proportion.
Pop culture and the effects of porn on your brain, are two totally different things. For me, porn was entirely responsible for my anxieties. It's simple, anxiety is caused by numbed D2 dopamine receptors. This in itself, is a consequence of overconsumption of porn (or any other dopamine elevating substance). Pop culture really can't do that.
Porn is capable of rewiring your brain.
I wished you made that clear in your post though.
I think porn also rewires how we relate to sex, as we start to associate sex as a visual experience rather than a kinesetic one. Porn definitely has the ability to rewire your brain.
Porn affects your attitudes and perceptions of sex. But sex is not the same thing as dating.
Hmm. Quite some "theory-crafting" going on here lately. Prostitution, legal or illegal is readily available and anyone who wants to use the services of a sex worker, cam, bar maybe in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and some smaller muslim states. Making prostitution legal just helps get rid of the pimps and women are less likely to get exploited.
Much more significant I feel is - why do you feel women use sex as a bargaining chip? To bargain for what exactly? From all the women I've been with I never perceived this to be the case. Certainly, often playful talk comes up about sex being offered as a reward but that is purely banter between men and women. Women don't reward you with sex for being a good boy mate. They just have sex with you when they're turned on, or better yet when you turn them on and they can't help but fuck you.
Chaos basically points you in the right direction, you're holding misconceptions out of which you're trying to come up with an external solution to fix your individual issue. You will benefit more from rationalising where your misconceptions originated from rather than pondering about wider society.
in regard to porn... just opened that article, I'll read it shortly. I can easily fathom heavy porn consumption having lasting effects on ones psychology. If you watch porn for prolonged periods of time or say more than 5 times a week I think it needs addressing. If you watch porn once or twice a week while you're bored and aren't very successful with women, i think other areas deserve more focus. Lastly, the last 2 women i've been in relatonships with watched significantly more porn than i do. Porn definitely has made society kinkier... is that all bad though? What does porn do to women? From my experience women watching porn doesn't sabotage your sex life with them, quite the opposite.
If men are less interested in women nowadays then they were 50 years ago, from the top of my head i can think of a few other reasons aside from porn, like long work hours behind computer screens, more worries, more stress generally, and last not but least the role of the woman has greatly changed. Women and men are regarded as equal, yet women wonder when men aren't chasing after them constantly?
Having more/constant sex or completely foregoing sex/masturbation will not solve a lack of connection/intimacy with women. It's just not that simple. What is going on in your head, how you feel about yourself, them, how you think, what you have to say is way more important than what goes on or doesn't go on in your pants.
In my opinion little has to do porn with real sex that we are talking here.I am also in a country where prostitution is legal,and I used it in the past.Now it doesn't make me feel so good admitting it.But I believe it can help some guys.
Let's be realistic.If a guy paying 3000 euros for two days out with a coach and with these could spend more than 60 fucks with hot women,what would be more beneficial for him?I don't advocate porn but despite the negative beliefs that can induce,I assume,without any information or evidence to support it,that can help a man on expressing his sexuality.
Prostitution does not help anyone with their issues.
The problem with men and the reason they have so many problems with women -- and in fact, the basis of this entire website -- is that they are unable to deal with their emotional problems. It has nothing to do with sex or even confidence having sex or even bragging to their friends that they had sex or whatever. It's their low self esteem and inability to handle their own emotions well and the fact that they've never been showed affection and don't know how to receive it.
A prostitute helps with none of these things and can possibly make some of them worse. So yeah, the guy may get a little ego boost for a few days because he had sex. But he's dismantling his self esteem even further to do so. If you perceive that small ego boost from actually having sex as "progress" then I suggest you re-read my book, Chapter 1-4 again.
I have no moral problem with prostitution. Don't particularly enjoy it myself. But I don't think guys should be pursuing it as a form of self-improvement. And I think it's no coincidence that the guys who always mention it as being a possible form of self-improvement, are always guys who are not satisfied with their dating and emotional lives.
As a guy who used to be really heavy into porn (home environment is now 100% free, I will write up a reboot journal perhaps within a month or so). I can honestly say that it doesn't just change your perception of sex, or dating, it changes everything related around women (and life!). Hot women become bland, nothing satisfies you, you have low energy and you just don't know why... Perhaps it's difficult for you guys to realte tot his, but for me, it was a huge eye opener.
Now I've been on both sides of the fence, but I can honestly conclude, that porn is not suited for me. It's simple, for me it's too addictive, I just can't watch it in moderation. haha
Sorry that I'm starting to sound like whiny bitch here, but most of you never had to deal with this stuff in such a manner as I have.
(03-22-2012 06:57 PM)Creatine Dreams Wrote: [ -> ]2. Women would be mindful of this and would not have as much of an entitled attitude regarding sex.
This really craws me for some reason. Entitled to what? Not have sex with people they are not attracted to?
I don't have any moral problems with prostitution personally so long as it's consensual on all sides. It's widely available anyway and it doesn't seem to have made much of a dent in people dating and having sex for free...
Yeah, I think my attitude towards prostitution is something that has definitely been changing in the past few months.
I used to have this fantasy that I could move to somewhere where prostitution was legal, get hookers all the time and get better at sex and women. Now, I think, that dream has been shattered.
It seems that the only solution for a tough life problem is actually working through it. And there are no shortcuts.
Easier said than done of course!
(03-23-2012 06:02 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote: [ -> ]This really craws me for some reason. Entitled to what? Not have sex with people they are not attracted to?
I don't have any moral problems with prostitution personally so long as it's consensual on all sides. It's widely available anyway and it doesn't seem to have made much of a dent in people dating and having sex for free...
But it's not free no matter how you look at it. Even if you're not investing money, you're still investing time.
Butters Wrote:Kyle, every boy pays for kisses. Do you know what I am saying? If you've got a girl, and she kisses you, sooner or later you're paying for it. You've gotta take her out to lunch, take her to a movie, and then spend time listenin' to all her stupid problems. Look, look at Stan right there. [Kyle turns to see Stan, who's listening to Wendy over at the merry-go-round] Why he's gotta sit there and listen to her stupid motherfuckin' problems 'cause she kisses him. If you ask me, that's a lot more than the five dollars my company charges.
(03-24-2012 08:49 PM)Matt T Wrote: [ -> ]But it's not free no matter how you look at it. Even if you're not investing money, you're still investing time.
Seriously? You're actually pursuing that argumentation?
(03-24-2012 08:53 PM)Chaos Wrote: [ -> ] (03-24-2012 08:49 PM)Matt T Wrote: [ -> ]But it's not free no matter how you look at it. Even if you're not investing money, you're still investing time.
Seriously? You're actually pursuing that argumentation?
No I just had to get a South Park reference back at Mark. I can't forgive him for the "piss out my ass" episode.