As I move forward with improving myself I've been stunned to discover that I've been completely wired for external approval as long as I can remember.
People say "Find your own happiness", or "motivate yourself, and don't look for approval from others", but as I try to find that I'm realizing that I seem to have no idea what that feels like, or how that works.
It may be sad to say, but as I examine myself I'm discovering that almost everything I do only feels valuable if other people notice it and respond to it. Maybe that's true, and maybe it isn't, but without context I'm having a hard time understanding what it would feel like to be that confident person who is responsible for their own happiness. And without that setting boundaries seems difficult or impossible.
Can I ask people describe the feeling of making yourself happy and confident. How do you find and maintain that state, and what was the transition into that like?
Drewid -
This is a very good question and it's a little like trying to describe the color "blue" to a person who has been blind all his life. It really is one of those things that you'll "get it" when you get there....which is really a shitty answer I'm giving you at the moment.
I'm not sure how old you are so I'll assume you're at least college age. But let me give you 2 scenarios:
Scenario 1
Remember those times when you had an important presentation you had to do for school? In this scenario you really prepare for it properly. You did the research, you studied, you ran the presentation by teachers or fellow students, and you practiced the presentation out loud and got feedback.
Now even despite all that, when you got in front of the class, you still didn't do as well as you thought you would. Maybe you got a "B" and you felt a little disappointed.
In this case you could be devasted because you allowed what your teachers or parents think to really get you down. Maybe you let that B really mess you up. In that case the advice, "You did your absolutely best, you shouldn't care what anyone says, be internally confident and just continue to improve" is very valid. You can walk around with your head held up high....you really did your best, just learn from what you did wrong and improve the next presentation.
Scenario 2
Same situation, but this time you didn't really prepare and you know it. You procrastinated, you tried to take short cuts, you barely got your presenation together so you didn't get a chance to make corrections or rehearse your verbal presentation. So you get in front of the class and you totally blow it. Maybe you got a "D" for the presentation.
Now if you took the advice above and said, "Yeah, screw what anyone thinks, I know deep down I did great....it was just because the teacher had it out for me, my parents are too tough, whatever....I'm confident internally that I did my best".....well in that case that would be a situation where you SHOULD care about what people think because they're telling you what you already know; you didn't do your best.
So how does this relate to your original question? Well, when every man lays his head down to sleep at night, he knows if he has done his best or not. He knows whether he took shortcuts or if he did the hard thing in life. He knows if he let his fears get the best of him for yet another day. When you go to sleep at night, the denials and excuses melt away and you're left with the truth.
If you can tell yourself honestly that you pushed yourself to the limit of your current boundaries and you're not taking the shortcuts....then you should be and CAN BE at peace with your internal confidence. Then you've earned the right to say, "Fuck what anyone thinks....I know I'm getting to where I need to be even if I'm not there just yet."
However, if deep down inside you know that you've wasted yet another week or another month and didn't do the hard tasks of pushing past your limiting beliefs, excuses, and fears, then you will care a lot about what everyone thinks....no matter how much you try to tell yourself you don't.
We can only mind fuck ourselves for so long. Reality always comes knocking. So after this very long post, the answer to your question is only something you can give yourself.
Thanks for the examples. I think those are interesting, and I get some of what you're going for.
(04-25-2012 05:31 PM)baller08 Wrote: [ -> ]We can only mind fuck ourselves for so long. Reality always comes knocking. So after this very long post, the answer to your question is only something you can give yourself.
I've heard those kinds of aphorisms a lot, but to me this isn't about the color blue. I don't think that you're having an entirely unique emotion that I've never in my life experienced before. I get satisfaction, happiness, and confidence. I've felt all those before, but I'm clearly got them wired to trigger in some way that is causing a negative effect.
What I'm struggling with is the disconnect from the idea of connecting with other people while simultaneously being uncaring of the result. What I'm trying to understand is how the better satisfaction is wired. Is that truly impossible to describe?
Let me take a stab at my thoughts here and maybe folks can comment:
If you never cared what other people thought of you, you'd fit the definition of a psychopath, so that's clearly not the goal here. And if what you're doing isn't working, but it makes you think you're happy, that would be a problem too.
So it's clearly about more than just not caring, but I don't get where the line gets drawn, or how.
Is it about valuing the connection more than the outcome? IE, the things I do that inspire me and push me are the the things worth sharing only with the people who understand and value them as well, and if you don't that's your problem?
I think you're misunderstanding the whole "don't care what people think of you" thing. We are human beings. Unless you've got some huge psychological defects, of course you care what people think of you. If you didn't you'd walk around in your boxers and slap everyone in the ass on the streets.
You care about how you dress, you care about what people think about your quality of work at the office, you care about what your family thinks, if your parents are proud of you. You care if women find you attractive. You care if women find you intesting and will respect you.
There is nothing wrong with caring about what people think. But you have to know when to draw boundaries.
People that have your best interest at heart who know you best, you should care about what they think of you. If more than one person has told you something negative, then take an honest look and see if it's true. It probably is. But what if there is one person in your family that has some really negative issues and is always negative? Then maybe their word doesn't hold as much credibility.
The second level is people around you, your co-workers, people you meet socially (including women). If you consistently get dates but sometimes women don't seem to like you, then you'd be wrong to really get bent out of shape about what those women think. However, if you hardly ever get numbers or dates, then it's not any one woman that is telling you something, it means that women in general is telling you that you have to improve yourself. So in the latter case you should care and in the former you shouldn't.
So that's what I mean by trying to describe the color blue. It isn't NEVER caring vs ALWAYS caring. You have to know when to care and when not to care and there is a balance when you just "get it".
I definitely care about what people think of my interactions with them. That is how I learn what I'm doing right and what I need to improve on. But my "caring" is purely from a self improvement point of view, I don't let it actually erode my self worth as a man. Now, if my best friends or my parents say that I'm doing something that is really negative, then I take a hard look at what I'm doing wrong and why I've gone down a particular path.
Thanks Baller. That's great stuff, and I think I'm starting to get it, I think.
It's not about the caring, it's about setting up proper boundaries with friends, strangers, etc. Moving the walls around, as it were. From what you said, it's also about putting people in proper places and understanding where they are relative to you instead of fantasizing about where they should be, and trying to stick them into places they don't belong.
God, I feel like Abed from Community right now, trying to intellectualize my emotional state. I'm going to think about this for a bit.
Drewid -
I've been thinking about your question a little bit this morning because I think its a very important distinction that every guy needs to make. I've been fortunate that this is an area that I've naturally been able to balance so I wanted to give you a better answer.
I think that you definitely should care what people think. After all the type of money we make, the women we get, the quality of life we lead is based on how people think about us. No man is happy who is poor, sexless, jobless, and is despised by everyone.
So this is the best "rule of thumb" (for the lack of a better term) that I can describe how I feel about the subject: Definitely care and pay attention to what people think about you and how they react to you, but evaluate it from an intellectual point of view, not an emotional one.
In other words, don't take it personally and don't let it erode your self worth. I'll give you an example, I'm a magician so I perform in front of a lot of people. The most important skill isn't a trick I do but how well I connect with my audience. When I try new illusions, what I think will work really well doesn't always translate in actual performance. I have to listen to my audience, they teach me what I'm doing right, what works, and what doesn't work. After each show I have to evaluate their reaction. If only one set of audience didn't like it and the majority does, I know I'm probably on the right track. However, if my last 5 audiences didn't like it and only 1 did, then I know that I have to either change the performance or maybe I just have an illusion that doesn't fit my style. However, in no case does any of this feedback make me feel like I'm a shitty magician or a worthless person. I'm thankful to get the feedback and it'll only make me better.
So in our personal life we have to look at it the same way. Don't get caught up in what any one individual thinks. That's where a lot of nice guys get screwed up because they care about what 1 girl thinks, which is where the "don't give a shit what anyone thinks" advice stems from. But pay attention to what people IN GENERAL thinks about you and be connected each time you talk to someone...really care about what they're saying and how they're reacting to you. Then go off and think about those conversations and see which area you would like to improve on and implement that change the next time and see how it goes.
Hope that helps you a little more. Since this isn't an area I've struggled with too much there's probably someone here better at crystalizing it.
Drewid, a big part in my journey of being happy and confident with myself, was actually finding out who I am. Searching for the nuance, between who I really was, and who I thought I was or trying to be. Some people spend so much of their lives wearing that social mask, that they forget what's underneath. Furthermore, when you
know who you are, people's opinion's of you don't automatically become accepted as fact and influence your self-image. You have an anchor within yourself, with which to navigate through the conflicting perceptions of who you are and who others imagine you to be... the difference between character and reputation.
In your second post you mention valuing connection over the outcome and wonder where you draw the line on caring. For me, I value my self-expression over the outcome. My happiness is derived from speaking my truths, from properly expressing myself in the best way I can, because that self-expression rather than the "other's" perception of that self-expression is what matters to me. And that truly reflects who I am (lol, for the most part, I'm not perfect). The way another person reacts to my self-expression is up to them, I have no control over that once I've said or done whatever I did. Now, I of course care what they think about it, but I don't care in such a way that their response will have any effect on my self-worth. In other words, I want them to like me and feel connected, but I don't need them to.
I know I'm a great person, so if a person reacts in a way that belies that fact than I have a history or knowledge of who I am to measure their response against and the requisite self-awareness to review the way I expressed myself and check to see if that showed who I really am.
Hopefully this helps in some way or at least makes sense... I want it to, but I don't need it to
Yeah....what Salaam said is better.
(04-25-2012 03:45 PM)Drewid Wrote: [ -> ]As I move forward with improving myself I've been stunned to discover that I've been completely wired for external approval as long as I can remember.
People say "Find your own happiness", or "motivate yourself, and don't look for approval from others", but as I try to find that I'm realizing that I seem to have no idea what that feels like, or how that works.
It may be sad to say, but as I examine myself I'm discovering that almost everything I do only feels valuable if other people notice it and respond to it. Maybe that's true, and maybe it isn't, but without context I'm having a hard time understanding what it would feel like to be that confident person who is responsible for their own happiness. And without that setting boundaries seems difficult or impossible.
Can I ask people describe the feeling of making yourself happy and confident. How do you find and maintain that state, and what was the transition into that like?
I everyone. This is my very first post. I am a bit lazy to browse the forum to find the good place to do it but I hope anyone reading it can share my greeting to every member hereby.
To be short in my answer I only want to emphazise saying that happiness for me is more directive than perfective knowing that every day someone has to deal with challenges. One of the best ways i use to keep myself positive is to always focus on my goal even if things seem to be difficult to be achieved. When it is about trails I just recieve, hembrass them with courage but also with hope that tomorrow will be better than the current one. I love my life. I keep fighting for good opportunities above all i stay in positive compagnie. This does not mean I do not feel the worries, not every day i have a good face nonetheless as long as I can I try to smile with my neighbowhood. Believe each time someone gets me s/he smiles to me instentlly my happiness grows.
So, thinking about this more, I think I've had an interesting realization:
What I'm striving for is the difference between being a mirror and a solar powered light.
My "nice guy" self is a mirror. He only believes that he can shine when others are shining their attention on him. That makes me desperate for attention, because unless I'm basking in the glow of someone else's praise I'm dark and lifeless.
BUT, If I'm solar-powered then I'm constantly gathering energy from others, whenever and wherever it occurs.
And I get to choose when I shine.
Storing up that power may mean that I never shine as brightly (although I can turn it up from time to time), but I can turn on my light wherever and whenever I want.
(04-26-2012 08:15 PM)baller08 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah....what Salaam said is better.
Thanks Baller. We don't always agree on things, but I respect the hell outta your efforts to help cats on here.
(04-30-2012 12:53 AM)Drewid Wrote: [ -> ]So, thinking about this more, I think I've had an interesting realization:
What I'm striving for is the difference between being a mirror and a solar powered light.
My "nice guy" self is a mirror. He only believes that he can shine when others are shining their attention on him. That makes me desperate for attention, because unless I'm basking in the glow of someone else's praise I'm dark and lifeless.
BUT, If I'm solar-powered then I'm constantly gathering energy from others, whenever and wherever it occurs.
And I get to choose when I shine.
Storing up that power may mean that I never shine as brightly (although I can turn it up from time to time), but I can turn on my light wherever and whenever I want.
What about your energy my dude? Wouldn't it make sense to shine with a primarily internal rather than just external energy source?
I'm starting to sound like a fanboy (T should pay me for all this plugging), but have you read this series?:
http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-5/
Seriously, it answers so many questions that pop up on this forum it's insane.
(04-30-2012 02:40 PM)Salaam Wrote: [ -> ]What about your energy my dude? Wouldn't it make sense to shine with a primarily internal rather than just external energy source?
Great feedback. As you can see, I'm still getting started with the idea of not relying on/needing external validation.
(04-25-2012 03:45 PM)Drewid Wrote: [ -> ]As I move forward with improving myself I've been stunned to discover that I've been completely wired for external approval as long as I can remember.
People say "Find your own happiness", or "motivate yourself, and don't look for approval from others", but as I try to find that I'm realizing that I seem to have no idea what that feels like, or how that works.
It may be sad to say, but as I examine myself I'm discovering that almost everything I do only feels valuable if other people notice it and respond to it. Maybe that's true, and maybe it isn't, but without context I'm having a hard time understanding what it would feel like to be that confident person who is responsible for their own happiness. And without that setting boundaries seems difficult or impossible.
Can I ask people describe the feeling of making yourself happy and confident. How do you find and maintain that state, and what was the transition into that like?
(04-30-2012 02:40 PM)Salaam Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks Baller. We don't always agree on things, but I respect the hell outta your efforts to help cats on here.
Thank you, I appreciate that. I enjoy learning a different perspective from men who have traveled a different path.