what's the point of dating / marrying?

[jimmy]

Here's probably the stupidest question you've heard in a while, but I had to ask it because I'm kind of confused.

1. I've been told by "relationships experts" that I should not date until I am 100% satisfied with myself and happy even if alone.

2. I've also been told that a relationship is not about receiving validation, it's about giving and receiving love. By love I understand "wishing good to another person".

3. I've also been criticized for wanting to date attractive women, since there are plenty of plain Janes out there who supposedly are superior human beings.

So with those 3 ideas in my mind, I have a hard time understanding what then is the point of a relationship, be it dating or marriage.

1. If I am 100% satisfied with myself and don't mind being alone, why bother bringing another person into my life? That's like saying that I can't eat pizza until I'm stuffed up with hamburgers.

2. If wanting to be desired and validated is bad, then why is wanting to be loved any better? Why do I need another brain to root for me, especially given that I'm supposed to be completely satisfied with myself and not needy? What do I get - other than someone rooting for me - by rooting for somebody else?

3. If I don't feel sexually attracted to someone, what's the point of entering into a relationship where we are basically expected to have sex? (Refusing to have sex is grounds for divorce in many if not all jurisdictions.)

I just feel like there is one piece of the puzzle that I'm not getting. Is dating and marrying something that people are expected to do simply because it is imperative to preserve the human species? That's what it is about? If that's the case I'm not sure why anyone (especially a psychologist) would try to push another person into a relationship with someone; it's not like the human race is going to go extinct any time soon. Oh and please don't tell me that marriage is just about the tax breaks...

[Mark]

You're over thinking this.

There are these things called emotions. Dating/marrying makes us feel good and feel happy. That's why we do it.

[Leo]

(07-01-2012 03:16 AM)Mark Wrote:  You're over thinking this.

There are these things called emotions. Dating/marrying makes us feel good and feel happy. That's why we do it.

Supposedly! I'd like to think life is so easy.

[jimmy]

(07-01-2012 03:16 AM)Mark Wrote:  Dating/marrying makes us feel good and feel happy. That's why we do it.

But then that means that you are needy, which is bad.

[Tim]

Being needy is not desiring validation from another person altogether, it's about desiring validation before it's justified.

If someone can meet our emotional needs (and make us happy), then it's fine to invest in them and desire their validation (to a certain extent). If you've only just met them and there's no reason to believe they can meet your emotional needs, then investing in them and desiring their validation is needy.

[Matty]

Your thinking in binaries. Try thinking of it in terms of a spectrum. There's a grey area.

[Dragonslayer]

There is a difference between “need” and “want”, I don't think the latter is ever a problem. Not being needy means that you shouldn't get your validation from and make your self-worth dependent on any single thing, be it a girl or something completely different. That doesn't mean you can't desire something and try to achieve it.

Also I would stop listening to your “experts”. Being 100 % satisfied with yourself would mean, there is nothing left about you that you'd like to change or achieve - sounds very boring and either unrealistically perfect or like low standards. Also beauty and a good and interesting personality are not mutually exclusive. Why should you go for plain women that have a good character but to which you are not sexually attracted to, if you can find others that have both?

[jimmy]

(07-01-2012 04:14 AM)Tim Wrote:  If someone can meet our emotional needs (and make us happy),

i was told that nobody can alter our emotions because only we control them. so how can they make us happy?

[FirstAidKit]

(07-01-2012 01:25 PM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:14 AM)Tim Wrote:  If someone can meet our emotional needs (and make us happy),

i was told that nobody can alter our emotions because only we control them. so how can they make us happy?

If you think about this for a second you'll realise it's false though. Of course people can alter your emotions - someone can push you in front of a car and make you feel scared, someone can give you a promotion and make you feel accomplished, someone can make you your favourite meal and make you feel cared for. What you control is how you react and behave because of your emotions.

[Mark]

(07-01-2012 01:25 PM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:14 AM)Tim Wrote:  If someone can meet our emotional needs (and make us happy),

i was told that nobody can alter our emotions because only we control them. so how can they make us happy?

People can influence our emotions, but we are responsible for them.

Being happy is not the same as seeking validation.

Humans are social creatures, if we do not make regular social contact and feel appreciated by people around us, then we become depressed. This has been shown repeatedly cross-culturally.

[Chaos]

I found this for you Mark

[jimmy]

(07-01-2012 04:23 PM)Mark Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 01:25 PM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:14 AM)Tim Wrote:  If someone can meet our emotional needs (and make us happy),

i was told that nobody can alter our emotions because only we control them. so how can they make us happy?

People can influence our emotions, but we are responsible for them.

Being happy is not the same as seeking validation.

Humans are social creatures, if we do not make regular social contact and feel appreciated by people around us, then we become depressed. This has been shown repeatedly cross-culturally.

I guess I can't argue that humans are social creatures, but if nobody appreciates me, I can still choose not to become depressed. who knows why they don't appreciate me, maybe they don't like me because I remind them of someone or something they don't like, but that doesn't mean I have to conclude there is something "wrong" with me. I can still choose not to internalize their feelings and find happiness elsewhere. Or maybe they don't appreciate me because they haven't noticed I exist.

And by the way, where did you read that this is true cross-culturally?

[Mark]

It's one of the most commonly-known psychological facts: if people are cut off from human contact, they become depressed, get sick more often, live shorter, suffer mental illnesses more often, etc. Babies die if they're not held. Even if you feed them and give them water, they will die if nobody holds them.

I've read this stuff in probably 10 different places. Do some googling, not hard to find.

[Matty]

(07-02-2012 01:26 AM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:23 PM)Mark Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 01:25 PM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 04:14 AM)Tim Wrote:  If someone can meet our emotional needs (and make us happy),

i was told that nobody can alter our emotions because only we control them. so how can they make us happy?

People can influence our emotions, but we are responsible for them.

Being happy is not the same as seeking validation.

Humans are social creatures, if we do not make regular social contact and feel appreciated by people around us, then we become depressed. This has been shown repeatedly cross-culturally.

I guess I can't argue that humans are social creatures, but if nobody appreciates me, I can still choose not to become depressed. who knows why they don't appreciate me, maybe they don't like me because I remind them of someone or something they don't like, but that doesn't mean I have to conclude there is something "wrong" with me. I can still choose not to internalize their feelings and find happiness elsewhere. Or maybe they don't appreciate me because they haven't noticed I exist.

And by the way, where did you read that this is true cross-culturally?

It kind of sounds like your just arguing for the sake of arguing. Human beings need love and contact with others. It's a fact. Certain people (codependents, insecure people) take this too far and constantly need approval and validation from others. I'm not quite sure how this is complicated. Understand and accept that you need people in your life, and also understand that you sometimes need time alone, and that not EVERYBODY on Earth is going to love and accept you. But certain people will, and these are the people you should invest in.

[jimmy]

(07-02-2012 03:09 PM)Matty Wrote:  It kind of sounds like your just arguing for the sake of arguing. Human beings need love and contact with others. It's a fact.

Contact? Maybe. Without other human beings I would be naked and living in a cave, and chances are I'd be dead by now. But love? I don't even know what "love" means, but I don't think it's necessary.

Quote: But certain people will, and these are the people you should invest in.

I don't know what you mean by "invest in". Invest in them how?

[Mark]

Quote:But love? I don't even know what "love" means, but I don't think it's necessary.

This explains a lot.

[jimmy]

(07-04-2012 03:38 AM)Mark Wrote:  

Quote:But love? I don't even know what "love" means, but I don't think it's necessary.

This explains a lot.

my understanding is that "love" means that you selflessly wish good to another person. But that emotion doesn't compute too well with me, because one I don't believe in selflessness and two, why would I want another person to do well just for the sake of their doing well? No, I don't want them to fail at life, I just can't think of a reason why I would want them to do well, unless there's something in it for me. so either "true love" doesn't exist, since the only emotion that resembles it is based on self-interest, or I am incapable of feeling "love".

[Tim]

(07-04-2012 03:52 AM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 03:38 AM)Mark Wrote:  

Quote:But love? I don't even know what "love" means, but I don't think it's necessary.

This explains a lot.

I just can't think of a reason why I would want them to do well, unless there's something in it for me.

I think that maybe you're currently incapable of love. I don't know if you always will be, but if the sentiment you described above is truly how you feel, I'd say that is the case now. If that's the case, I STRONGLY suggest you see a licensed professional about this.

[jimmy]

(07-04-2012 04:05 AM)Tim Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 03:52 AM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 03:38 AM)Mark Wrote:  

Quote:But love? I don't even know what "love" means, but I don't think it's necessary.

This explains a lot.

I just can't think of a reason why I would want them to do well, unless there's something in it for me.

I think that maybe you're currently incapable of love. I don't know if you always will be, but if the sentiment you described above is truly how you feel, I'd say that is the case now. If that's the case, I STRONGLY suggest you see a licensed professional about this.

oh boy. you want me to see a licensed professional? you missed my other thread didn't you?

[Matty]

(07-04-2012 03:52 AM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 03:38 AM)Mark Wrote:  

Quote:But love? I don't even know what "love" means, but I don't think it's necessary.

This explains a lot.

my understanding is that "love" means that you selflessly wish good to another person. But that emotion doesn't compute too well with me, because one I don't believe in selflessness and two, why would I want another person to do well just for the sake of their doing well? No, I don't want them to fail at life, I just can't think of a reason why I would want them to do well, unless there's something in it for me. so either "true love" doesn't exist, since the only emotion that resembles it is based on self-interest, or I am incapable of feeling "love".

It's called empathy, and like love, it's another one of those basic human emotions. The only people who can't feel it are sociopaths and narcissists.

I stand by what I said, I think your just arguing for the sake of arguing. It sounds to me like you asked a loaded question, and when you got an answer you didn't like (stop overanalyzing) you decided to take it further to prove your point. Either that, or, like Tim said, you're on the wrong forum and need to be seeing a psychiatrist.

[SeXyBaCk]

In fairness, I don't think autistic people feel love either. They're too much in their own head.

[nonsense]

Dating/marrying is pointless. Take it from Louis.

[Mark]

I think you need a psychiatrist jimmy, not a forum.

[jimmy]

(07-04-2012 10:13 AM)Matty Wrote:  my understanding is that "love" means that you selflessly wish good to another person. But that emotion doesn't compute too well with me, because one I don't believe in selflessness and two, why would I want another person to do well just for the sake of their doing well? No, I don't want them to fail at life, I just can't think of a reason why I would want them to do well, unless there's something in it for me. so either "true love" doesn't exist, since the only emotion that resembles it is based on self-interest, or I am incapable of feeling "love".

Quote:It's called empathy, and like love, it's another one of those basic human emotions. The only people who can't feel it are sociopaths and narcissists.

Empathy just means that you understand someone else's emotions. If I see someone who is obviously experiencing pain, my understanding of their emotions is likely to motivate me to try and stop whatever is causing them pain, but that's as far as I would go. I would feel no motivation to help them experience pleasure.

[Mark]

(07-04-2012 02:09 PM)jimmy Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 10:13 AM)Matty Wrote:  my understanding is that "love" means that you selflessly wish good to another person. But that emotion doesn't compute too well with me, because one I don't believe in selflessness and two, why would I want another person to do well just for the sake of their doing well? No, I don't want them to fail at life, I just can't think of a reason why I would want them to do well, unless there's something in it for me. so either "true love" doesn't exist, since the only emotion that resembles it is based on self-interest, or I am incapable of feeling "love".

Quote:It's called empathy, and like love, it's another one of those basic human emotions. The only people who can't feel it are sociopaths and narcissists.

Empathy just means that you understand someone else's emotions. If I see someone who is obviously experiencing pain, my understanding of their emotions is likely to motivate me to try and stop whatever is causing them pain, but that's as far as I would go. I would feel no motivation to help them experience pleasure.

No, empathy is actually FEELING the same emotions you observe in someone else. So if your friend's dog dies, you FEEL their same grief. If your brother gets a new job, you FEEL his excitement with him.