very "kinky" girl and I possibly think low self esteem

[crazyhorse]

So I went on a date with a girl that basically didn't went anywhere, she wasn't as hot as she used and had gotten a bit fat. Horrible.... Now when I returned and opened my facebook I got a message from a hot girl "hey Joost can I add you as a friend cause I think you're hot".

She was also a very hot girl. After ten minutes in the conversation she starts saying things such as "what do you like in sex", "what"s the craziest thing that you've ever done" and she also sended me a naked picture of her. So we started "sex chatting" and all that other horny stuff. The funny thing is, today I was going to meet her, and she doesn't show up. I ask her why and she tells me that she's sick. I tell her that the least she could have done was to let me know that she couldn't make it. We get in a bit of an argument about this and later she says "ok let's forget what just happened I'm horny".

So we start to sexchat even more and we put on our webcam. The funny thing is, that after our session she deleted me as a friend on facebook. LOL, her last words were "I wish you were here so that I could fuck you hard".

Now don't ge me wrong I don't mind a very sexual girl, but she's also a bit of a pervert. I remember her telling me that she just went to the toilet and then she asked me whether or not I wanted to eat her ass???? She has asked me whether or not I wanted to try "piss sex" once. Damm this girl is crazy! I couldn't stay turned on when she said that off course.

What do you think a bit of low self-esteem? Personally just like with all the other low self-esteem women, the best is to show as little interest as possible. I've noticed that when i start engaging them like I would do with a normal girl, they always back down.

This is probably what happenned with her? Your toughts?

My toughts:
- I think she definetly has got self esteem issues. My best bet if I want to fuck her is definetly to not add her on facebook again as a friend, and let her come to me again. What do you think?

But if there is one thing that I'm sure about, it's that I'm not going to try piss sex... Yuck.....

[Gill]

I'll rather think it was simply a way to validate herself to you, using sex as a means to assert her influence. In short, turning you on, appreciate the way things go, then back off to probably do it again to another guy.

Internet / webcams don't mean anything unless she's in front of you having sex with you. I'll rather say, that she seemed to be in some weird way, did "safe sex" .

But yeah, you're right, girls have wild fantasies and real sexual craziness. Probably wilder, and even gutsier than we guys can have (which is often limited to what porn can offer as a quality). I remember my first honest conversation on this subject with one of my best friend (a girl I know since kindergarden), who told me all the things she would do with her boyfriend (scenarios, hard sex, etc...), while appearing as the nice / perfect image girl you would present to your parents and also at the same time being a real great/genuine person in real life. It opened up a lot of things in my head at that time.

[crazyhorse]

Well on the "facebook" thing. Last time we were chatting she was having troubles with her account, it went on and off the entire time. Last time I checked her entire account was removed from facebook... Perhaps she did the same to Marck Zuckerberg . I also don't see her profile in any of my mutual friends anymore. So it could be possible that she got hacked.

I'm not having a problem with a sexual girl, we all went good, hard sex. But if you mention piss sex and shit sex to me, I will immediately place you into the pervert category. That's not normal, you're having mental issues. It's like those men who watch rape scenes. You do realize that "extreme" sexual behaviour is a way of dealing with emotional issues?

what you describe as turning you on, enjoying things, you show interest---> she backs off. That's exactly what happens with low self-esteemers.

And that kind of behavior in my opinion isn't part of enjoying a healthy sexuality, it's because you're having issues.

[Heisenberg]

"That's not normal, you're having mental issues. It's like those men who watch rape scenes. You do realize that "extreme" sexual behaviour is a way of dealing with emotional issues?"

You have any factual information to back that up? Different people have different fetishes, just like they have different tastes in music, foods, etc. I don't think you can label somebody as emotionally damaged based on some weird fantasies or fetish.

That being said, piss/shit sex sounds fucking revolting to me; but to each his (or her) own. And actually raping somebody is obviously a sign of some serious mental issues.

I never trusted trying to further things online... are you sure it's not a dude? He could loop videos of some other girl on a cam stream just so he can fuck with you in chat. And obviously anybody with an email can make a fake facebook page. Sounds like somebody could just screwing around. Insist on meeting in a public place and if the person doesn't show up, end it.

[Arikado]

I'd say move on.

[Halo Effect]

I am 80% (nah... Make it 90%) sure that you talked about sex with a dude. Been there, done that.

"That's not normal, you're having mental issues. It's like those men who watch rape scenes. You do realize that "extreme" sexual behaviour is a way of dealing with emotional issues?"

Not too many decades ago oral sex was considered perverse and taboo by many. Thats not to say that I expect poop sex to be in vogue any time soon. But you can't take your own norms and values and make them into absolute moral values for all.

[crazyhorse]

I can see my comment on the "piss sex", "shit sex" thing, has ruffled some feathers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxUq_zzvAaA

"That's not normal, you're having mental issues. It's like those men who watch rape scenes. You do realize that "extreme" sexual behaviour is a way of dealing with emotional issues?"

I still stand by this. How is "piss sex" enjoying your sexuality and please don't give me the "you can't generalize your own tastes and preferences". We all do that, and "piss sex" is just not normal. Perhaps some people on this forum are very eager to try it out. Same with the rape fantasies. Sorry to burst through your bubble of political correctness, but I judge others on their preferences. So do you....

See my links on the tyra banks show. She's a teenage pornstar (17-18) who decided to do porn. Later a former porn star comes on the show almost in tears where she is saying things that "she was doing it to get validation" and because she was having "low self esteem". There are even former pornstars who help other pornstars with emotional issues.

check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bc-8lIBk...re=related

she's a former pornstar who said that when having sex with all those men all she wanted to hear from a guy was "i love you just the way you are". She was using sex as a way to get validation from men. She is also the one who runs a company where she helps other pornstars who are dealing with this issue.

Lately I've been reading up a lot on dopamine and how sexual stimulation (porn, over-use of porn and extreme variantes of porn) affect this. It's really interesting to note that people who are hardcore into porn always need more extreme doses of porn (see the rape porn analogy). That is because you always get a dose of dopamine whenever you get confronted with something new, but if you keep exposing yourself to the same stuff (hardcore porn), it won't be a novelty anymore and you won't get a dopamine rush. Meaning it will leave you unsatisfied and you'll crave more.

- Can we leave the dude thing alone, haha. This could be a possibility... Damm men are really easy to catch when it comes to sex. Remember that US politician who get caught with his dick on twitter . Let's keep it on the topic of sexuality. Those links I posted are really interesting stuff. Especially since it shreds another light on the porn business.

[Halo Effect]

crazyhorse,

you're now saying several things.

You say that porn actresses are often in porn for very wrong reasons, that porn actresses are sometimes mistreated or abused, and that porn actresses are often emotionally damaged. This was not what we were talking about, and I and probably everybody else here will agree with you on these points.

You also say:

Quote:I still stand by this. How is "piss sex" enjoying your sexuality

Piss sex is enjoying your sexuality when you do it and it stimulates you sexually and it is highly enjoyable. That's obvious. That you think it's BAD or DIRTY does not mean that people don't enjoy it.

Then you say:

Quote:and "piss sex" is just not normal

Absolutely true. Only a very small minority likes the idea of "piss sex", and probably a much smaller percentage actually does it. Therefore, it is far from normal. It's highly unusual. This is no proof that it is bad though. Only 1-2% of the population has red hair, but you can't use that as an argument to say that red-haired people are evil.

Quote:Lately I've been reading up a lot on dopamine and how sexual stimulation (porn, over-use of porn and extreme variantes of porn) affect this. It's really interesting to note that people who are hardcore into porn always need more extreme doses of porn (see the rape porn analogy). That is because you always get a dose of dopamine whenever you get confronted with something new, but if you keep exposing yourself to the same stuff (hardcore porn), it won't be a novelty anymore and you won't get a dopamine rush. Meaning it will leave you unsatisfied and you'll crave more.

Yes, men who frequently watch porn slowly get desensitized to it and look for more and more extreme material to satisfy them. Happened to me, too. It seems like this is becoming more and more common in men nowadays. The problem is probably vastly underestimated, because almost all men watch porn, and people simply do not confess to watching extreme porn in real life.

This goes against your earlier argument that extreme desires are evidence of emotional issues. If a normal man can watch porn frequently and then get "extreme desires" as a result, while he is otherwise emotionally healthy, and while he didn't have those desires BEFORE porn, then the desires can be independent of emotional issues. Also, fetishes can develop because of random occurences, especially in childhood, as far as I know, which also has nothing to do with emotional issues.

[crazyhorse]

As far as I'm concerned both arguments have their value and don't contradict each other.

I used the pornstar analogy (extreme form of sex) to illustrate it as an example that extreme behavior (in any field of life), has got a lot do with hiding or not dealing with underlying emotional issues. I afterwards made a connection with people who are watching or enjoying extreme forms of sex or internet porn. I don't see how one excludes the other.... Both are very interconnected.

What I'm getting at it is that people who are showing off extreme forms of behavior are highly addicted to the dopmaine rush. Meaning you need more and more of it to satisfy you.

to sum it up:
extreme form of behavior ----> not dealing with certain emotional issues.
extreme form of behavior ----> wanting more extremes to satisfy and maintain levels of dopamine.
That's my argument in a nutshell.

The red haired analogy: If 2% of the people of a population are rapists and pedophiles, that doesn't make them weird to you then?

I agree with your argument that nothing in itself is bad per se. But let's say that you meet someone and he or she mentions to enjoy "shit or piss sex", are you now telling me that you arn't going to judge that behavior one bit?

On the issue of porn

I'm actually convinced that porn does far more damage then good. I've banned porn out of my life for good. It's now day 8 and while I never considered myself a severe addict, I did get some withdrawal symptions and I must say that I definetly felt apathy towards women that I saw in my every day life. It explains a lot of the problems I was facing. I'm planning to write a topic on it after day 21 or so and share my experiences.

[Brian]

I'll post in half a year to see if you havent watch any porn during that time haha. The temptation is too strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUojtbMt0...re=related

[Mark]

I'd just like to note that there's a large gap between being aroused from watching extreme porn and actually enjoying and being turned on by extreme sex itself. The need for extreme porn is often more a function of porn addiction (dopamine receptors). When guys are put in that actual situation, they often have no interest or are turned off. Two different biological functions. Don't mix them up.

[Halo Effect]

Quote:I'd just like to note that there's a large gap between being aroused from watching extreme porn and actually enjoying and being turned on by extreme sex itself. The need for extreme porn is often more a function of porn addiction (dopamine receptors). When guys are put in that actual situation, they often have no interest or are turned off. Two different biological functions. Don't mix them up.

Definitely true. It's really about the novelty-seeking, and probably also about taboo-breaking (which can lead to even more arousal) when watching porn. They say that if you fantasize about something, it doesn't mean that you actually want to do it. A lot of stuff in the porn I've watched, I didn't even (want to) fantasize about. It's even further removed from reality.

Btw, Brain has more posts than you Mark. That's just not right.

crazyhorse,
I don't like the porn star analogy. Being in porn is an extreme form of behavior, and you could say the same about watching a rape scene (although the latter is far more common than the former). But women being in porn doesn't have anything to do with that dopamine response. And the reason they do porn is not because they have an almost irresistable sexual desire to do those things. (If they wanted to have crazy sex they could have it off cameras, after all). It has more to do with either money or stuff like validation like you mentioned.


Good luck with your goal of not watching porn btw! I did two months without it earlier this year. I've done ~20 days several times. After the two months, my perception of hardcore porn changed quite a bit. It wasn't arousing anymore, and just looked dirty. Pictures of normal women had a strong effect on me again. Pretty interesting!

Now I'm studying for an exam and it's just too hard to say no to porn at night after depleting my self-discipline all day long by studying... But after this I'll probably try and stop watching it again. I agree with you that it has numerous negative effects on men.

[crazyhorse]

Brian Wrote:I'll post in half a year to see if you havent watch any porn during that time haha. The temptation is too strong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUojtbMt0...re=related

My goal isn't to become a christian like one former practical pickup member. I'm just interested in the side effects of it. It's now day 8 and I don't feel any desire to watch it. Your analogy to see what happens in half a year doesn't quite match it. If you read responses from most people, they actually say that they felt disgusted by porn and some even felt asleep during an adult fillm. Think about that...

Halo Effect Wrote:crazyhorse,
I don't like the porn star analogy. Being in porn is an extreme form of behavior, and you could say the same about watching a rape scene (although the latter is far more common than the former). But women being in porn doesn't have anything to do with that dopamine response. And the reason they do porn is not because they have an almost irresistable sexual desire to do those things. (If they wanted to have crazy sex they could have it off cameras, after all). It has more to do with either money or stuff like validation like you mentioned.


Good luck with your goal of not watching porn btw! I did two months without it earlier this year. I've done ~20 days several times. After the two months, my perception of hardcore porn changed quite a bit. It wasn't arousing anymore, and just looked dirty. Pictures of normal women had a strong effect on me again. Pretty interesting!

It's funny cause I decided to put it on (10 minutes ago) to see what would happen and I clicked it off . Weird actually. But the main reason I'm interested in this is because I'm having a strong background with apathy. I remember always having a happy normal social life, but there was period when I became more isolated and when I started watching it more. It was back then that I started feeling apathy for women. Hell I'll spare you the stories, but if I can count the number of times I got offered sex from random women, it would be a community guy's walhala. My background in this community was always very different, I came from a luxury position actually.

I posted my history on the "reuniting forum" and a lot of other men shared the same stories. They said the same thing "they were out and a girl was grinding her ass against them and they didn't feel anything". They said things such as "I felt I had to pursue this girl" or "I knew objectively that I was surrounded by hot women, but I didn't feel anything".

This series explains why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQHLF5BL9...r_embedded

The story goes back to dopamine and it's a pretty interesting series. It's also the reason why people overeat but the difference is that you're stomach can only contain a certain ammount of food.


Now I'm studying for an exam and it's just too hard to say no to porn at night after depleting my self-discipline all day long by studying... But after this I'll probably try and stop watching it again. I agree with you that it has numerous negative effects on men.

I think that a lot of men are somewhat blind to the fact that they are somewhat addicted to it. I'm not going to preach morals, but it's definetly worht to look into it. It seems like Brian would be a perfext example lol. Also they are a lot of other addictions as well: work, sports. But porn seems so useless actually. Well anyway I'll keep you guys updated.

This link is also very interesting:
http://yourbrainonporn.com/what-does-wit...-look-like

[Mark]

I agree about porn addiction and I agree that most guys benefit a lot by limiting it as much as possible.

[Guyintheback]

Well, if nothing else, it still is a big waste of time.

But I do believe watching (too much) porn has detrimental effects on one's psyche.

[Alvar]

Halo Effect Wrote:Now I'm studying for an exam and it's just too hard to say no to porn at night after depleting my self-discipline all day long by studying... But after this I'll probably try and stop watching it again. I agree with you that it has numerous negative effects on men.

Funny how our minds use this knowledge to trick us. I went through the same mental pattern a couple of weeks ago, after you(?)'ve posted about some study.
"Just complete a major task, my self discipline is depleted, resisting is futile, I'll go straight to the ice cream. I'll get a brandy too..."

[Brian]

Guyintheback Wrote:Well, if nothing else, it still is a big waste of time.

But I do believe watching (too much) porn has detrimental effects on one's psyche.

It also give guys unrealistic expectation of female's beauty too lol. If you go on a porn diet for at least a month, then just flirting with a girl will give you a hardon. On the other hand, sometime, a naked cute girl is not good enough for a hardon because frankly, she's not as hot as the pornstar lol.

[Halo Effect]

Alvar Wrote:Funny how our minds use this knowledge to trick us. I went through the same mental pattern a couple of weeks ago, after you(?)'ve posted about some study.
"Just complete a major task, my self discipline is depleted, resisting is futile, I'll go straight to the ice cream. I'll get a brandy too..."

I may have posted some studies about self-control and ego-depletion on the old forum. It's true that it may be a self-fulfilling prophecy by now, like you say. But the effect is still real! Using self-discipine all day makes it harder to exercise self-control at the end of the day. I wonder, though, if masturbation and orgasm have their own effects on productivity and energy... Sure seems like it for me.

The porn issue really makes me think. New generations of men are growing up with easily accessible, extremely varied, unlimited, high definition porn. Most will see it at a very young age. This just can't be good.

[Mark]

The discipline depletion thing is true. But I don't use that as an excuse. It's like a muscle you have to keep working on.

[Guyintheback]

Brian Wrote:It also give guys unrealistic expectation of female's beauty too lol. If you go on a porn diet for at least a month, then just flirting with a girl will give you a hardon. On the other hand, sometime, a naked cute girl is not good enough for a hardon because frankly, she's not as hot as the pornstar lol.

I agree.
Although, on a slightly different topic, I have never been turned on by "perfect" beauty. Maybe it is because I think that those women are out of my league, I don't know, but I always find "cute" girls much more attractive than women most people would label a 9 or a 10.