Younger Women

[Oli]

So I'm reading Models and I have a question on the showing & assuming interest/playing games part. I'm twenty years old and all the girls that I hit on are of course around my age. Mark recommends in the book to be straight up, go for girls who are straight up, and to take a girls word at face value. The thing is, I don't know how much the book is geared towards people my age. Twenty year-old girls (or guys) aren't known for being especially mature and confident. In general, I'd say my age-group is pretty insecure. I'm pretty sure most girls my age play games or aren't super comfortable being forthright with their intentions, nor comfortable being shown direct interest as much. I feel like I would be letting a lot of "otherwise" decent girls walk if I use the logic in that part of the book, considering my demographic... or are there enough secure twenty year old chicks out there?

[Jon]

I'm 29 now and in my experience with dating girls in their early 20s, they respond really well to a guy who is straightforward. It's often the case that they play games because they are so used to dealing with guys in that age group, who pull a lot of nonsense. I might also benefit from the fact that because I am a bit older, a girl that age will assume she needs to act mature around me, but you can get the same effect if you just set that expectation. I don't think Mark's book is saying dump a girl the moment she plays games. It's more like, call her out on it, say "what's the point of playing games, let's be adults" and if you get a good response, great.

Obviously, there is some nonsense that is much, much more likely with girls who are a bit younger. For instance, a girl pulling the plug on sex at the last possible instant is way more likely with a girl in her early 20s. Girls in their late 20s are more in touch with their emotions and comfort levels and just won't let it get to that point (not always, but more often). But that's just an accidental side effect of having less confidence in what you want, and not a deliberate game.

[Mark]

You're right that younger women are more insecure and less comfortable with being straightforward. But a girl becoming uncomfortable isn't always a bad thing. Negative emotions can often be quite powerful. I've intimidated the hell out of girls at times with how forward I've been. Not because they felt unsafe, but because they were so unused to communicating their desires honestly and openly they became very self-conscious. The fact that you can create that level of emotion in a woman is actually an extremely powerful and attractive thing. I think you may actually find that being that confident and direct with girls your age might be even more powerful than other age groups. Going direct on a 19 year old usually blows her mind. Going direct on the 29 year old often doesn't even make them blink.

I date a lot of girls in the 19-22 age range, and I've never really had much trouble with them not accepting my honest communication. The problem is usually that they're incapable of communicating BACK to you in an honest and straightforward way. And if you get sucked into their drama and games, then it can be a real pain in the ass.

[Oli]

So the caveat would be: assume girls don't play games, unless they're in their early twenties or younger?

[Jon]

No, assume whatever girl you are with does not play games until she proves you wrong.

[Mark]

Jon Wrote:No, assume whatever girl you are with does not play games until she proves you wrong.

This.

If you think about it, the only thing from stopping you right now from walking out the door and telling hot girls you meet that you think they're hot are your assumptions about young women. Your assumptions are barriers you've invented to keep you from taking action. See Chapter 10 "What Are Your Stories"

[Leo]

Mark Wrote:I date a lot of girls in the 19-22 age range, and I've never really had much trouble with them not accepting my honest communication. The problem is usually that they're incapable of communicating BACK to you in an honest and straightforward way. And if you get sucked into their drama and games, then it can be a real pain in the ass.

Tell me about it. Sigh! Is there any way to make them communicate in an honest and straightforward way? The only thing that I've seen it works a little bit is alcohol. When a young girl gets drunk she relaxes a lot and shows her real intentions, but it's a pain in the ass because she goes back to be the same when she's sober. Obviously the lack of experience is a big factor when dealing with them. Not mentioning that I'm 39 y-o. Mark, have you found another way besides alcohol? I really think they don't have THE CAPACITY to communicate directly. It sucks, but I'm attracted to them.

[Mark]

In the short-term, not really, other than just calling them out on it. In the long-term, you can help them open themselves up and become more in touch with their emotions. Over the course of a few months you can help them quite a bit.

Or you can just date non-American women. Problem solved.

[Leo]

Mark Wrote:Over the course of a few months you can help them quite a bit.

IF they let me help them.

Quote:Or you can just date non-American women. Problem solved.

Gotcha. I'm considering to hit on young cambodian girls and/or latin girls. A lot more open, nice, outgoing, they show their emotions, etc. It's nice to see we are on the same page. Americans suck big time.

[Tim]

Mark Wrote:Or you can just date non-American women. Problem solved.

I love American women. They're not afraid to let you know how much of a bitch it is that they didn't get work off to see Lady GaGa.

Anyway Gabe I think there are big advantages to being direct with girls in their early 20s. I'm 22 and the majority of girls I hit on are 20-25. They often seem really taken aback and intrigued when you openly compliment them. I think it's actually made up for a lot of other little mistakes I make, because they're kind of like 'well this guy clearly must have his shit together over all'.

I think it actually comes down to maturity a lot. Studies show that beginning in your early teens, and lasting until your mid 20s, guys are less mature and responsible than girls. So often girls in those ages go for older guys. I think a lot of girls respond to directness because in their mind they're not just casually flirting with another guy in their classes, but they're talking to someone who's on to the next stage in life. Regardless of the fact that I might be their age or even younger.

Yeah there might be some girls who can't handle it, but unless you're specifically interested in girls who are not very emotionally mature (no judgment), overall I think it will help you.

[Oli]

Mark Wrote:This.

If you think about it, the only thing from stopping you right now from walking out the door and telling hot girls you meet that you think they're hot are your assumptions about young women. Your assumptions are barriers you've invented to keep you from taking action. See Chapter 10 "What Are Your Stories"

I know what you're talking about, and how my post would make it sound like that, but I'm not using it as an excuse. More just trying to gauge how much interest I can expect a girl my age to show me. I guess experience will tell. And (thankfully?), I'm dealing with German chicks, not Americans.

[Jon]

There is no way you can date somebody half your age and not find them immature. It's a matter of perspective. There are things that seem totally reasonable at 20 that, from a perspective of 10 years later (me) strike me as ridiculous and immature.

Leo Wrote:Tell me about it. Sigh! Is there any way to make them communicate in an honest and straightforward way? The only thing that I've seen it works a little bit is alcohol. When a young girl gets drunk she relaxes a lot and shows her real intentions, but it's a pain in the ass because she goes back to be the same when she's sober. Obviously the lack of experience is a big factor when dealing with them. Not mentioning that I'm 39 y-o. Mark, have you found another way besides alcohol? I really think they don't have THE CAPACITY to communicate directly. It sucks, but I'm attracted to them.

[Leo]

I don't have to date a woman half my age to find her immature. At least they look good. I've dated women around my age that are immature: playing hard to get, not answering the phone, teasing me IN BED, etc. Unfortunately this kind of behavior is not islolated solely to young girls in the USA. I've dated americans in their 30s acting like this. Oh, I forgot to mention that they feel a huge need to act sassy. IDK why.

Jon Wrote:There is no way you can date somebody half your age and not find them immature. It's a matter of perspective. There are things that seem totally reasonable at 20 that, from a perspective of 10 years later (me) strike me as ridiculous and immature.

[Oli]

@Mark: But lol, now that you've mentioned it, I realize that my story is usually "she's probably dumb or lacks depth." Which in and of itself is kind of ironic. I actually read your article ages ago and have been digging for "my stories" for a while, but just realized this now. Took a while to wrap my head around. "What are your stories" basically equates to "how am I being shallow and disregarding people that could otherwise make my life a much more meaningful and enriching experience." The only thing causing people to lack depth is that I tell myself they lack depth. The only thing causing me to see people as stupid is because I only value their intelligence (even though that's not even true, just what I tell myself). I've been asking myself for sooo long why I don't find most people interesting, I think realizing this has made me much more motivated to get to know people. I have a feeling this could be a very important realization. Thanks a lot for the help.

[Mark]

Yes, yes, YES!

One thing I tell guys often is that it's your responsibility to find something interesting in each person you talk to. It's not their responsibility to show it to you. If you don't find anyone interesting, then you're not looking hard enough.