Why are PUA techniques considered manipulation?

[Jean DeCuir]

The way PUA techniques are taught are a huge epic fail, leading to huge minsinterpretations from the public and frequently leading to narcissic behavior, sexism and stupidity in general.

But why do you consider PUA techniques manipulation and why? And if you don't consider them manipulation explain us too...

In my opinion, the reasons why PUA techniques ARE NOT manipulation:

- If you don't have a personality, you still won't get it. - By personality i mean having an opinion and life goals. Do you believe in God? What is your top 10 movie lists? What places you been to? What do you think of the middle east politcal crisis? What about Justin Biebers Sexuality? That's having an opinion. What about your goals? I wanna be a barman, run with the bulls, reaching my 20's with enough money to buy an house or a buisness, to mention some of them. This is the kind of things you talk on the conforth phase and you can only develop them by caring about yourself.

- You can't make someone feel attracted to you, just raise the probability. Anybody saying otherwise is lieing. Self-explanatory

- Manipulation = do this or bad things are gonna happen. When you see a gold digger the message she telegraphs is " Give me money or you are not getting any". That's manipulation. The message a thief with a knife telegraphs is " give me money or die". PUA is different. The message is " You take me and we both win". Just like marketeeing " you take my product and you win". One thing is " do this or bad things happen" the other is " do this and we win"

- Is make up and fancy dresses considered manipulation?

- EVERYBODY, the moment they realize they are attracted to someone, project a different self - This was first said by my social psychology teacher and i agree. A person changes their behavior when "trying to pick up". For example: it is very common to see the average joe teasing a woman he likes. It's because teasing is a basic flirting "technique". Now, does this means that "being a teaser" is a trait of the average joe? No! He doesn't really teases other people often. He's just trying to project another version of himself. A different self. So, if everybody projects a different self when picking up, it's okay to use PUA related techniques.

What's your cut?

I am trying to get PUA detoxed but i need to listen to you guys so i can get my beliefs handled lol

[Chaos]

Not all PUA techniques are manipulative. In fact most of them aren't. What you'll often read in this forum is mainly that they cover up who you are by teaching you different behaviors that are associated with attractive people. As I said in another topic, the treat how to behave instead of focusing on who you are, and so they treat the symptoms but not the main problem.

As time goes by, you go back to your usual self and all the attractive behaviors disappear, and with them your success with women or your girlfriend.

In addition, there're some PUA techniques who are manipulative in itself. Some examples are false time constraints, some forms of physical escalation, some negs, ignoring what the girls is saying (either verbally or non verbally) and just keep "plowing", etc. If you want a feminist perspective on the matter (one that changed my views and made me thing quite a bit about it) I'd recommend Clarisse Thorn book since she addresses a lot of those topics on it.

[Jean DeCuir]

(06-25-2012 09:36 PM)Chaos Wrote:  Not all PUA techniques are manipulative. In fact most of them aren't. What you'll often read in this forum is mainly that they cover up who you are by teaching you different behaviors that are associated with attractive people. As I said in another topic, the treat how to behave instead of focusing on who you are, and so they treat the symptoms but not the main problem.

As time goes by, you go back to your usual self and all the attractive behaviors disappear, and with them your success with women or your girlfriend.

Couldn't agree more, even tho i think it's 70% focusin on yourself and 30% on techniques.


But how can a False time constraint or plowing be manipulative?

[Chaos]

It's a False time constraint. How can it NOT be manipulative?? The way Clarisse put it. Imagine a girl who is reluctant to go to your place, she may be attracted but wants to take things slow. You know that or feel that, but instead of respecting that feeling, you use a FTC and say, "Wanna have the last drink at my place? But you'll have to leave early because I have to get up early in the morning".

Now your manipulating her to get her to your place, in the hopes that once there you cant put the moves and get her to bed. Yeah, she might agree and even have sex with you, but the fact remains that she was reluctant in the first place and you manipulated her with a straight lie to get her to come up.

Maybe plowing is NOT manipulative but it does still disregard consent from the girl. This is a little more subjective but keep in mind I said "ignoring what the girl is saying".