What is the difference between neediness and being lovesick?

[isis22]

What is the difference between neediness and being lovesick? I’m sure most men here have been lovesick, and I’m sure most men here have been in love. I certainly have, and have found that when I am, my neediness level rises. It seems to me that the two go hand in hand. I can’t conceive how a man can be lovesick and not be needy—unless he is lying to himself.

I can understand how a woman would be attracted to a non-needy man initially, but does there come a point after that initial attraction when the non-neediness of the man has to become just a little needy to make the woman feel wanted for more than just sex.

I’ve read that needy men are unattractive to women because women see it as a sign that these men would avoid conflict to protect the woman if the need arose. But does this logically follow? I know that when I’m in love, any neediness I have automatically translates into wanting to do anything I can to protect the woman I love. And I know non-needy men who wouldn’t lift a finger to protect a woman they say they love.

[Trickster]

Mark wrote a blog post about misunderstanding the concept of neediness, which you should read.

http://postmasculine.com/understanding-neediness

More succinctly, in models he talks about how healthy relationships develop when both parties mirror their emotional investment. It's okay to be needy, as long as it's reciprocated by your partner and you're neediness has progressed in a natural way.

For instance, if you're feeling "lovesick" after one date or so, you're bound to scare a girl off with your neediness since, well, she hardly knows you and vice versa and she hasn't done anything to earn that kind of investment from you yet. However, if you've been with a lady for 6 months and a year and you both love eachother, okay, that's a different story. Then she's probably emotionally invested in you too and, I should hope, you her.

[isis22]

Thanks for the link. It makes sense regarding the initial interactions with a woman, but my concern is with the concept of “non-neediness” itself. I can’t seen to understand how being non-needy is avoidable when a man falls in love, which to me is something beyond most men’s control.

Obviously, a man should hide his neediness in this situation, for the reasons Mark spells out in his article, but is the man not supposed to have loving feelings for a woman at all, until he’s been in a relationship with her for a long time? That seems to be the implication behind the concept of “non-neediness” being used here.

As I say, I’ve fallen in love (as every man has) and my experience of it has always included a level of neediness, or perhaps a better word would be “longing”, in the sense that, although I don’t fawn over the woman and buy her things etc., I do miss her and want her company when she’s not there. To me, this is natural and healthy for a man, no matter how long he’s been in love with a woman. This can be seen in all the love songs, poems and plays written by men about being in love with women.

Of course, I’m not suggesting a man should be this way after only knowing a woman a few minutes, as that would be strange, but I do think it’s appropriate after knowing her a few months. After all, men do fall in love quicker than women, according to some studies.

[Trickster]

(06-23-2012 04:58 PM)isis22 Wrote:  Thanks for the link. It makes sense regarding the initial interactions with a woman, but my concern is with the concept of “non-neediness” itself. I can’t seen to understand how being non-needy is avoidable when a man falls in love, which to me is something beyond most men’s control.

Obviously, a man should hide his neediness in this situation, for the reasons Mark spells out in his article, but is the man not supposed to have loving feelings for a woman at all, until he’s been in a relationship with her for a long time? That seems to be the implication behind the concept of “non-neediness” being used here.

As I say, I’ve fallen in love (as every man has) and my experience of it has always included a level of neediness, or perhaps a better word would be “longing”, in the sense that, although I don’t fawn over the woman and buy her things etc., I do miss her and want her company when she’s not there. To me, this is natural and healthy for a man, no matter how long he’s been in love with a woman. This can be seen in all the love songs, poems and plays written by men about being in love with women.

Of course, I’m not suggesting a man should be this way after only knowing a woman a few minutes, as that would be strange, but I do think it’s appropriate after knowing her a few months. After all, men do fall in love quicker than women, according to some studies.

I still think you're misunderstanding the concept of neediness. The point isn't to get rid of neediness - doing so is in fact impossible, and trying to do so artificially will only mess you up. We all need a certain degree of validation, be it from ourselves or from our partners. The point is to make whatever neediness you do have reciprocal to the person you're with. When neediness becomes unattractive is when one person's level of neediness far outstrips the other party.

[isis22]

I accept that you shouldn’t get rid of neediness but to try to make it reciprocal to the person you're with. The problem with that, though, is if you do feel needy (or have “longing”—as I prefer to call it) making it reciprocal would be “dishonest”, unless you genuinely felt it to the same extent the woman did.

[Trickster]

Neediness being reciprocal is more of a natural outcome after having invested in yourself (through lifestyle improvement) and repeated interactions with women rather than a behavior that you should strive for. As you increase your self-esteem and increase your interactions with women, you naturally move towards healthier emotional investment levels with women.

[Dragonslayer]

I think we all have "fallen for" a girl who didn't reciprocate our feelings. Of course, you can't force someone to feel the same way towards you that you feel towards them, so in this case in my opinion there's nothing else to do than to accept your and her emotions and get over it and on with your life.

But I don't think that's very common. Because for me and in my personal experience falling in love requires that I already know someone quite good, and feel accepted and liked. I guess it isn't any different for girls, so in my world falling in love is a mutual process most of the time anyways.

Obviously I don't believe in love at first sight (anymore). If you get totally invested in a girl you just met recently, that's not love. That is having a crush. And, luckily, I stopped having them since Junior High.

[isis22]

Trickster, I agree.

Another question on my mind is this: When is it “safe” to tell a woman you love her? Are we never to tell them this until after many years of being in a relationship with them?

I knew a man who told me never ever tell a woman you love her, not even if she’s your wife. He said it’s ok to demonstrate it to her in little ways but never say the words “I love you”, or she will lose attraction for you.

---

Dragonslayer, yes, unrequited love is something I’ve felt a few times.

I do, though, believe in love at first sight... or at least after the first few sightings of the same woman. A study was done about how quickly men fall in love compared to women, and the conclusion was that men fall in love much quicker, usually after the first few meetings with a woman. This makes sense in evolutionary terms, as the man has to decide on a suitable woman by her looks alone, and in primitive times didn't have the time or luxury of the courting process to do this in.

[Trickster]

(06-25-2012 10:15 AM)isis22 Wrote:  Another question on my mind is this: When is it “safe” to tell a woman you love her? Are we never to tell them this until after many years of being in a relationship with them?

I knew a man who told me never ever tell a woman you love her, not even if she’s your wife. He said it’s ok to demonstrate it to her in little ways but never say the words “I love you”, or she will lose attraction for you.

You tell a woman you love her when it's genuine. The answer to this question is complicated because the feeling is complicated, but I also know that when you feel it's right, it'll be right. Telling someone you love them is one of the ultimate acts of vulnerability.

Whoever told you to never tell a woman you love them is an idiot. Any normal woman who values intimacy would be put off by the never ending delay eventually.

[Zelazny]

Just make sure that you don't mistake "I love you" for "I need you". Some people say "I love you" when they truly feel it. I blurt it out when I just get that feeling, made my partners go mad. But There's also people saying "I love you" because they come from a situation of neediness, where it means "Please love me back?". Don't do that.

[isis22]

Thanks for both your responses. They’ve been helpful to me. I’m new to all this.

[Salaam]

(06-26-2012 10:21 AM)Zelazny Wrote:  But There's also people saying "I love you" because they come from a situation of neediness, where it means "Please love me back?". Don't do that.

For real. Never be the person that says I love you, just to hear it back. Love is a gift, its not a bartering tool.