What Actually IS Game?

[Alvar]

(05-05-2012 11:18 AM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  The guy himself has never brought it up - I heard from other girls . And I'm not doubting your skills, just remember that hot guys don't have the monopoly on good sex.

Haha. It's like they say, guys who actually are rich don't usually go around advertising that they are rich

(05-04-2012 04:38 PM)crazyhorse Wrote:  Game for me is usually just being able to express yourself (communicating well) and being able to go after what you want (being in control of your fear). That's really it.

This.

[playmaker001]

@Alvar: Yes, but if he decides to advertise it, doesn't make him any less rich. Besides, I'm in the Ayn Rand camp when it comes to humility. It's usually phony and if you've achieved something there's nothing wrong with saying it. Especially here in the U.S, a lot of guys repress their feelings and it's like a sign of strength to do this. Total BS

To answer JAMES' question though:

Quote:Girl sitting by herself during the day (in a mall, park bench etc)

I did this a number of times when doing Mark's approach program. I slept with a cute blonde girl from it.

Quote:Girl walking by herself during the day

I can do this automatic now, and have slept with several girls from this.

Quote:Girl with a friend or 2 during the day

I rarely bother with this one because I don't like to entertain.

Quote:Girl with a group of friends in a club

Done this a handful of times. Usually on or around the dance floor. Or sometimes the girls will start talking louder when we come around which I take as an IOI. I've laid girls from groups before, no big difference from her being alone really. Just more cock blocks.

Quote:Another, asked a girl what she was reading on the bus

I've done this when I used to practice being social. Never hooked up with a girl from the bus though.

Quote:Then a bunch of direct approaches in clubs/bars

Of course I've done this. Clubs and house parties are the main places I get laid. Usually same night lays.

Quote:through social circles/status or girls opening me

I've been noticing girls opening me quite a lot lately. They'll come up to me and touch my chest. This is the easiest way to get laid, but not as fun because there is not as much having to chase the girl. Some of the hottest girls I've been with were from social circle though.

[James]

Hey Playmaker,

Cool. I guess I was giving those examples to see what has worked best for your guys in those situations.

So, in your approaches, what did you do? (direct, situational, opinion etc)

Just curious

[playmaker001]

Direct or situational, i don't bother with opinion openers really. I think you're focusing on the wrong things though. Once you get better at the game, you'll develop certain "instincts" and learn which girls are eye fucking you, horny, think you're cute, are receptive, etc. before even having to talk to them (or only having to chat with them for a little). It's really quite comforting because when I first started out, I always used to worry about what I was going to say. Now I use the 70% non-verbal part of human communication to my advantage and it's like me and the girl's little secret. I've said some pretty dumb things to girls before, but most of the time if they're into you, it's really HARD to fuck it up with them. Until you get to that non-verbal place with women, you'll remain in the dark when it comes to game. Now it's to the point where I'll have interactions with a girl where the first thing to come out of my mouth is "so romantic" to her. Even if it's something simple like "you have pretty eyes". Your words become more important to her if you speak less until after you've slept with her (at least in my case).

[James]

That's what I mean. I'm dating my "10" now and have been doing really well for the past while now and all I've done is basically hit on girls and talked to them normally. So that makes me wonder if I actually understand "game" or not. But I guess it doesn't matter if I'm getting results.

[Mace]

(05-06-2012 08:23 AM)James Wrote:  That's what I mean. I'm dating my "10" now and have been doing really well for the past while now and all I've done is basically hit on girls and talked to them normally. So that makes me wonder if I actually understand "game" or not. But I guess it doesn't matter if I'm getting results.

You sound like a natural. There are other guys here who attempt the same things you do only and get nowhere.

My point is that the guys that are getting the hot chicks without this community are naturals. The guys who developed these points studied how the naturals communicate with women and then put it in writing.

If you are conscious of what you do wrong then you can move towards self improvement.

I have a friend who is a natural. he knows nothing of this community, but if you see his interactions with women you will notice he subconsciously adhears to many of these points.

I played football in high school and college. We had cheer leaders there to motivate us and encourage us which was great, but it was the coaches who actually taught us the skills that we needed suceed in our sport.

This thread should not be argumentative. We all know that without a solid inner game (self confidence) nothing that is taught here or on other website will help. But once you are happy with your self these and other tactics will help you.

Are you saying that once you work on your internal beliefs all your external mannerisms magically shape themselves up? Why not work on both at the same time and see a greater improvement? Also, I believe that working on your external game with techniques and body language pointers is conducive to more immediate, short term successes, which give the positive mental reinforcement necessary for you to improve your internal beliefs. You can go around chanting mantras on what to believe all day, but without physical results you're going to get discouraged pretty quickly.

There is a saying that changing your beliefs can help you to achieve your goals. Similary it is also possible to take certain types of action (even on blind faith) and still achieve the same goal. Once the goal is achieved, the persons beliefs then change and the cycle is moving in the positive direction.

Having said all of that the point is that if you can make some 'external' event or strategy work well, then odds are that will change your belief system and hence affect you internally also.

I find this hard to describe, but if you change every single thing perfectly on the outside and you get good results, then that changes yourself interenally also and then you suddenly have the confidence (internally) that you were looking for all along.

On the other hand, what others have said is that you must only change yourself on the inside and all things will go well once you've settled the interal issues.

I think both points of view are correct only that they are different ways to get to the same position or state. I think that if you practiced this external stuff over and and over again, it will damn well change you internally.

Similarly, if you work hard on youself internally, it may or may not take longer but you will gradually get more confidence etc and you well get the same great results.

I guess one thing is clear though...there are certain internal things you got to get straightened out before you can have any success at all.

[Halo Effect]

Quote:Having said all of that the point is that if you can make some 'external' event or strategy work well, then odds are that will change your belief system and hence affect you internally also.

I find this hard to describe, but if you change every single thing perfectly on the outside and you get good results, then that changes yourself interenally also and then you suddenly have the confidence (internally) that you were looking for all along.

Mace, what you say sounds good in theory.

You are saying that perfecting everything on the outside (what you look like, what you do, etc.) will also give you great inner game/confidence.

If we look at what happens in reality, then first of all there are men like Mark who have gone down the road of PUA, and found that even though they might pick up a chick every now and then using techniques, their inner lives suffered. It was not until after they abandoned the outer techniques and routines that they became truly happy with themselves, their lives and their relationships.

Then there are the hardcore PUA's who are still going at it. If perfecting outer game made perfect inner game, then the best PUA's with the best routines and techniques who stay in the world of pick up would have flawless inner game. But in reality many PUA's have fucked up inner lives. They possess traits like emotional instability, anger and bitterness, validation seeking, negative views towards women and life in general, low self-esteem. I am no expert on the PUA community, but from the few big name hardcore PUA's I know, I think multiple of these traits apply.

I have to say that I do believe doing things like fixing posture and improving vocal projection and dressing better and so on all help. But I don't think going full-PUA has the effects you says it has on inner game.

[Mark]

My "inner game" did not get good until I left the community. I *thought* I was confident when I was successful at PUA, but in hindsight I was just covering up my issues with pussy. My girlfriend did as much for my self esteem and confidence by herself as my first 50 lays.

Let's not forget that Mystery tried to kill himself (twice), Sinn tried to kill himself, and Gunwitch shot a woman in the face.

[Mace]

(05-06-2012 05:37 PM)Mark Wrote:  My "inner game" did not get good until I left the community. I *thought* I was confident when I was successful at PUA, but in hindsight I was just covering up my issues with pussy. My girlfriend did as much for my self esteem and confidence by herself as my first 50 lays.

Let's not forget that Mystery tried to kill himself (twice), Sinn tried to kill himself, and Gunwitch shot a woman in the face.

That's because you and the guys you mentioned became way too immersed into the PUA lifestyle. Spending 5 nights a week in nightclubs would be toxic to anyone's psyche. As with any pursuit, moderation is key. But to use your experience and that of a handful of others who chose to make this a living to dismiss PUA tactics and techniques outright is fallacious. For every guy like you, there are many once hopeless guys whose romantic lives have improved markedly and directly as a result of PUA (including myself).

[shadow]

(05-06-2012 09:37 PM)Mace Wrote:  

(05-06-2012 05:37 PM)Mark Wrote:  My "inner game" did not get good until I left the community. I *thought* I was confident when I was successful at PUA, but in hindsight I was just covering up my issues with pussy. My girlfriend did as much for my self esteem and confidence by herself as my first 50 lays.

Let's not forget that Mystery tried to kill himself (twice), Sinn tried to kill himself, and Gunwitch shot a woman in the face.

That's because you and the guys you mentioned became way too immersed into the PUA lifestyle. Spending 5 nights a week in nightclubs would be toxic to anyone's psyche. As with any pursuit, moderation is key. But to use your experience and that of a handful of others who chose to make this a living to dismiss PUA tactics and techniques outright is fallacious. For every guy like you, there are many once hopeless guys whose romantic lives have improved markedly and directly as a result of PUA (including myself).

Mace, it depends on what you want. If all you want is to fuck, PUA is great. But most guys in the community are looking for intimacy. They buy into the idea of being a mad player because the community tells them so. But they'd be perfectly content having a nice steady girlfriend. So yes, PUA techniques work to fuck girls (though they take a hell a lot more effort than one should actually expend). But they don't really solve most guys' core needs of emotional intimacy. In fact, it espouses an unreal ideal of being an alpha guy who needs to fuck a ton of chicks to prove his masculinity.

The reason the guys above tried to kill themselves is due to the world view that PUA encourages. It encourages manipulation, tricks and tactics to snag a girl and coerce her into bed. This makes relationships seems empty and more of a power struggle than true, authentic connection. Any meaningful relationship is more than sex. After your 15 minutes of sex (more like 5 hours for me ), if you have nothing to exchange with your partner, life seems pretty empty. Atleast it does to most people. Some people may be perfectly fine with that and that's great. But most people need to feel loved, need a friend that they can bare their innermost feeling to. And a great girl provides you that.

Also, The kind of girls these kind of techniques work on are usually LSE girls. If some girl negged me, I would never try to prove myself. I'd just be like fuck off bitch. Why? Because I don't need any random girl to validate me. The same applies to high self esteem girls.

I admire your desire to learn things by yourself. That is a great attitude to have. But perhaps you'll realize the lessons that people who have trod the path before you have learnt.

[Jon]

(05-06-2012 09:52 PM)shadow Wrote:  Mace, it depends on what you want. If all you want is to fuck, PUA is great.

Even then, not really.

[SeXyBaCk]

Did Mace just take a sore one for the PUA team? Focus was off, should have spent more time chatting to the cheerleaders than listening to the coach. He was playing the wrong game. Looks like he's been scratched off the roster for the time being.

A healthy, mature and mutual intimate relationship will do way more for your "game" than getting a 1000 phone numbers (day or night, whatever the difference may be). There's also a bit of a difference between being good at chatting women up for a contact and being a great guy that women want to be around (for the longhaul). I'd rather improve and invest in the latter. The former is just being an approach machine.

Yeah, you have to be socially competent to have a satisfied love life, big surprise there. The debate on how to become socially competent though is ever recurring around the forum. There are many ways to become more social outside of PUA (which is flawed because it heavily concentrates on getting laid, not being social, they're two different things, it's really not hard to come to this conclusion if you sit down and thinka bout it). You absolutely don't have to go down the PUA path. But you do have to go out and interact with other human beings, more than half of which coincidentally happen to be female. And if we're honest here, for some of us it's easier to talk to a woman in the street and tell a bit of a story and come away with the number than to be there for a friend when they're having a rough time.

[Halo Effect]

It turns out something was off about Mace.

His post called "Day Game - Why are most closes Foreign Girls and not Local Girls?" in this subforum was cross-posted all over the internet, word for word.

Even his reply in this thread about the 'classic "tactics vs. value" dichotomy of game' was a direct copy/paste from some other post on some other forum. Copy the post and google it and see for yourself!

I wonder what his motive was.

[SeXyBaCk]

Maybe he enjoys arguing in favour of PUA stuff? In fairness people do way worse stuff to pass time on the i-net.

[Halo Effect]

Come to think of it... it's totally his style. He would also send the same text to 20 different girls.

Although if he copied other people's posts, then it's just plain weird. Although, I guess, still Mace's style.

[SeXyBaCk]

Yeah, you're right. Mace is quantity over quality every day of the week.