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The view from 30-- where to go from here
luigi Offline
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The view from 30-- where to go from here
I've never posted on any PUA/seduction/game forum, but after recently turning 30 I find myself wanting some sort of feedback on where I've been and where I should be headed. Any and all comments are encouraged, from "shut up and keep going" to "give up," to "get to the point." I'll try and give an objective, detailed description of myself and my experience, though I may ramble a bit.
I think I'm like many guys on this website in that I've had real success in several areas of my life-- though never with women. Today I live in Washington DC and write for one of the biggest news providers in the world-- a dream of mine since I was in high school. When I'm not writing and reporting I play in a local band that has played most of the big clubs around town opening for national touring acts. Another dream since I was a kid. If you had told me when I was 20 that this would be my life at 30, I would have been thrilled.
And yet I've always felt that my success with women wasn't even on the same planet as the rest of my life. Some background ...
I grew up with two loving, though culturally conservative, parents who are still together. My sister and I were both brought up to be religious and I think to some degree this made life tougher for both of us. Basically we were raised to be honest, hardworking, obedient children who didn't bother anyone. When it came time to learn about sex, my parents sent us to church, where we were told again and again all the risks of premarital sex. For years as a teenager I truly believed I wouldn't have sex until I was married.
At school I had some friends, but was never popular by any means. My interests were mainly weird books, movies and music, which of course don't lend themselves to a lot of socializing.
Then when I was 17, something incredible happened: I got a hot girlfriend. In some ways this was the great blessing and curse of my life. She was a tiny, gorgeous latina, a straight-A, overachieving dynamo who played in jazz band with me. For reasons I'll never fully understand, she fell head-over-heels for me. Where others might have seen me as weird and aloof, she saw me as cool, intellecual, dark. We dated for the next two years, until college pulled us apart. She was the only girl I've ever loved. The only girl I've ever been with who I was truly sexually attracted to. We should have lost our virginity to each other (she asked me for this many times), but I was still so brainwashed from church that I never had sex with her. Probably the biggest regret of my life.
When the relationship finally ended during my sophomore year in college and figured I'd just move on to the next hot, smart, sexy girl. I don't need to tell you that things didn't work out that way. My love life since then has seemed like one long, dull, bad dream. I would make out with a girl or two in college, but spent my prime college years completely celibate.
It was only when I turned 23 that I discovered "game." I read David DeAngelo's stuff, picked up the basics of Myster Method, even perused some Ross Jefferies (ugh). I guess I can't consider myself a total game failure. Within a few months of getting into this stuff I went out to a bar, met a girl and lost my virginity. She was ugly, the kind of girl you wouldn't want your friends to see you with, but I finally popped my cherry.
I hoped that from there my results would build, steadily getting more girls, better girls etc. Instead, I'd lay a few more bar girls over the years, but without ever being able to consistently open and build attraction. After two or three years of striking out at the bars, I gravitated toward online dating. The girls weren't cute, but then neither were the ones who would talk to me at bars. If nothing else, the online girls were intelligent and interesting. So when I was 27 I chose my second girlfriend: a super intellectual asian grad student. If you saw her on the right day, in the right outfit, you would call her cute, but right on the borderline. I learned from that relationship the perils of settling.
She was never comfortable in the relationship because she claimed to loved me, and I never returned that sentiment. One night after about six months of dating she got angry, got drunk and fucked one of her friends on the couch. End of relationship number 2.
So now I'm 30. I've laid 11 women and passed on possible lays with about that many more. I'm not ashamed of the women I've been with, but it eats me up inside to admit that I've never had sex with a genuinely cute girl. I've had two or three "serious" relationships, and the only one I enjoyed ended when I was 19.
I'm not one of these guys who has insane expectations. I never expected nor wanted two supermodels on my arm, or threesomes every weekend. In the end I'd just like to find a smart, cute, sexy girl that I'd be happy to settle down with. Ironically, I had that when I was a bumbling, awkward, clueless teenager-- but I've never been able get close to it again.
So... what say you pickup sages? Is it time to hit the bars again, mercillesly plowing through 2,000 sets until some untapped game synapse in my brain finally connects? Is it time to take a bootcamp (shudder) or get a private coach (actually considering this one)? Day game? Or am I just deluding myself?
Time to lower your expectations, chump. You're a good looking guy (8 on hotornot.com) but you'll always be short and skinny (5'7'' 135 lbs). Time to set your sites a little lower.
Any and all comments, criticisms welcome. Would love to hear from other guys about my age.
07-02-2012 05:33 PM
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Starsailor~ Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
There are a lot of 30 year old guys that are a lot worse off than you.

It doesn't really matter whether you do daygame or hit the bars - if you want to meet more cute girls you are going to have to talk to them. Sounds from the tone of the post that approaching girls seems like a chore for you - it really doesn't have to be.

Being skinny and short need not hold you back. Go meet some girls.
07-02-2012 08:57 PM
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luigi (07-02-2012)
don Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
Meeting women is about playing to your strengths. Personally I love the bar scene, it's a brutally efficient way to meet attractive women and i love nightlife. Others seem to have a lot of success with daygame and social circle, all equally good, just depends on your style i suppose.

As Starsailor says, the important thing is to not over think it and just get out there and start meeting women, you'll figure it out!
07-02-2012 10:58 PM
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Jack Sparrow Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
Read "Models". I am not advertising for the book, but it does answer your question.

I agree with the other guys though. Being with 11 girls is not bad. Your experience is very normal. Basically you are an average American guy. An average guys would have 1 or 2 sweet heart that they loved dearly (both emotionally and physically). Then they graduate from school, has a much smaller social circle, therefore has a smaller chance of "accidentally" bump into another cute girl who like him the way he is. So he tries online dating, hit some frumpy girls with mediocre personality when he's really horny. After doing that couple of time, feel emotionally and physically unfulfilled. And when he goes out with his buddies, once in awhile he gets lucky with a girl in the bar.

Question:

Do you run into a lot of attractive girls in your day to day activity (work, hobby, social)? If you do, then just continue what you are doing, but just make sure you chat up these girls. Eventually you'll run into another girl like you Latina sweetheart. It may take couple of years though.

If you do not run into a lot of attractive girls in you day to day activity, then you may have to pick-up a new hobby, or hit the bars, or do day game.

Nothing wrong with being an average American guy. I have many friends who join different clubs, organizations, use online dating, and eventually find a girl they really connect with and ended up marrying her.

- J-S


I agree with the other guys though. Being with 11 girls is not bad. Your experience is very normal. Basically you are an average American guy. An average guys would have 1 or 2 sweet heart that they loved dearly (both emotionally and physically). Then they graduate from school, has a much smaller social circle, therefore has a smaller chance of "accidentally" bump into another cute girl who like him the way he is. So he tries online dating, hit some frumpy girls with mediocre personality when he's really horny. After doing that couple of time, feel emotionally and physically unfulfilled. And when he goes out with his buddies, once in awhile he gets lucky with a girl in the bar.

Question:

Do you run into a lot of attractive girls in your day to day activity (work, hobby, social)? If you do, then just continue what you are doing, but just make sure you chat up these girls. Eventually you'll run into another girl like you Latina sweetheart. It may take couple of years though.

If you do not run into a lot of attractive girls in you day to day activity, then you may have to pick-up a new hobby, or hit the bars, or do day game.

Nothing wrong with being an average American guy. I have many friends who join different clubs, organizations, use online dating, and eventually find a girl they really connect with and ended up marrying her.

- J-S
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2012 11:52 PM by Jack Sparrow.)
07-02-2012 11:52 PM
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jimmy Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
I'm 30, too.

Some differences between you and I:

I was always too intelligent to allow myself to be brainwashed by a church.
I was always too stupid to make women feel attracted to me.

At least you have had girlfriends. At least you have had sex.

But I have never in my life been loved by anyone, other than perhaps my mother.

Oh, and my job is very humble. I don't hate it, but it's nothing to write home about. I'm **** next to a lawyer or a doctor.


Hope that makes you feel better.
07-03-2012 01:11 AM
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CartesianTheater Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
Same situation here. In many ways your in better position than me. I'm 31, just getting my first real job, by which I mean a job that actually pays enough for me to be self sufficient, not one that would be considered a career by any means. Only had a few girlfriends and slept with a handful girls. Approaching women seems like about the most terrifying thing I can think of, (but like you I'm really seeing where it's the only way to go, online is a joke) so your one up on me that you even have a little experience with it.
07-03-2012 02:25 AM
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Spikes Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
You don't have to go to bars if you don't want to. You can meet women doing things you like to do. The only trick is you meet women, mess up a bunch of opportunities until you see a pattern and correct yourself. The only issue with everyone is there anxieties. All you have to do is face your anxieties until you are comfortable with them. It's not easy but if you do that, eventually it gets better. It's the only way. You can definetly do it especially because you have the other aspects of your life sorted out.

Grant me the serenity to accept that some women are uninterested,
Courage to change the ones that are neutral,
And wisdom to know the difference.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 02:48 AM by Spikes.)
07-03-2012 02:40 AM
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Mountainman Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
I don't know how much advice I can give you, so I'll just give you some background about myself. I'm 34, 6'1", 240, blue eyes, been told many times I'm good looking. I had four girls ask me to the prom my senior year in high school. Throughout my twenties I have had many bartending jobs in upscale places where I met many many beautiful women. How many women have I slept with? 0. How many relationships? 0.

Like you I grew up in a very religious environment. My parents told me when they got married in the Catholic church in the early 70's, they were required to go through counseling. The priest they met with told them that in the Catholic church they're only supposed to have sex to reproduce, and get this, even then you weren't supposed to enjoy it. All types of contraception were and still are banned in the church. My parents never completely shared those beliefs but subconsciously I think that type of thinking was passed on to me. I definitely was never expected to have sex until marriage and for a long time I thought that's the only way I was ever going to have sex.

For most of my adolescence I was terrified of girls. My last two years of high school I found myself with lots of friends who were girls and in situations where I was alone with them. But things never got serious because of the amount of anxiety I had when it came to get physical with them. Even till now I've only kissed a few girls and that's the farthest I've even been.

Now I find myself at 34 with no experience with women. I always figured I wasn't good looking enough, too fat etc. A little while back I had some anxiety problems and am currently dealing with them. It wasn't until recently I could look in the mirror and see a good looking guy. Six months ago I met someone I really liked and for the first time ever I told her how I felt. It didn't work out but am slowly pushing myself toward going after women I want, not settling for women that want me.

So basically what I am saying, no matter how bad you feel, your situation is much better than mine. And I'm sure there are guys out there who situation is worse then mine. So we basically have to forget the past and move forward.

Sometimes I think its better for a man to be in his 30's than 20's. For one you can date a woman in their 40's or a college age girl and its really not that far of an age difference. I have known many people who were married for years that had a 10+ difference in years. My grandparents were married 40+ years and my grandfather was 11 years older. Joe Paterno was 33, when he met his wife she was around 20. They were married for a long time. Not to mention all the beautiful women in their 30's that are out there. Plus there are no shortage of younger women that like guys our age.

(07-02-2012 05:33 PM)luigi Wrote:  Time to lower your expectations, chump. You're a good looking guy (8 on hotornot.com) but you'll always be short and skinny (5'7'' 135 lbs). Time to set your sites a little lower.

I know guys that are built like you that have been with women I would have killed to be with. Like I said before I'm not the guy to give advice but having the attitude that you need to lower your expectations is the wrong way to go about this. Go after the women you want acting like you deserve the women that you want and deal with however they react to you and eventually you'll be where you want to be.
07-03-2012 04:08 AM
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luigi (07-05-2012)
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
I feel your pain man.
My situation is somewhat similar. I'm 32, professional with good things going carreer-wise and strong social circle of friends.
I was cheated and dumped badly by my high-school sweetheart in my early 20s and since then till my 30s I more often than not settled for mediocre relationships with mediocre girls. Also had a dry-spell of almost 2 years when I was hooked on Warcraft (nothing to be proud of). Things are way better now Smile

Your life sounds really cool to me!!
You seem to have your shit together. Basically, you rock now! Attractiveness-wise men are in their prime-time during 30-35. You can easily date women 10 years younger or older your age. It seems to me, your issue is, that somewhere deep-down your heart you feel unworthy to have a beautiful, sexy and loving girlfriend in your life. Like you have too little to offer her in return. Basically, you have too high expectations for yourself. I am no guru in, but here are a few tips that worked for me:

1. Lower your expectations for yourself. Don't become less ambitious, but just admit to yourself that you already have everything needed to have a great girl in your life. You may not believe it for yourself, but I am sure, there are atleast few hundred single and hot women in Washington DC that would consider you a great boyfriend material.

2. Allow high quality women to notice and choose you. Men do the picking part, women do the choosing part. Women choose men from the ones they have on their radar. It seems that medium quality women are already quite likely to choose you. So the more high quality women have you on their radar, the greater are your chances to be chosen. It is entirely up to you, how do you get on womens' radar. Play it to your strenghts. Daygame, bargame, online (for me personally its 'meh...'), art galleries, networking events, traveling, salsa dancing, fitness training. It doesn't matter really as long as you just walk to a woman you like and say "hello, my name is luigi..."

3. Unleash the wild-man inside you. I dont know how you look and what are your character attributes, but I feel that your religious upbringing has caged the man inside you. Religion by itself does no good for men. It teaches people to be obedient, modest, submissive, powerless and supressed - absolutely opposite of true masculinity. I would recommend you a book "The way of the superior man" by David Deida. According to this book, people end up together with partners who are their sexual reciprocal. Basically it says, that less feminine women (not so hot) choose less masculine men and vice versa - more feminine women (hot and sexy) choose more masculine men. My life experience has proven this statement to be true. What you can personally do - is to become a better man on a deep-core level of your heart. Is your appearance, posture and clothing manly enough? Do you pursue manly hobbies like sports and outdoor activities? Do you speak your truth without shame? Do you accept responsiblity not only for yourself but other people also? Do you make big decisions? Do you challenge yourself? Do you live a life full of passion and adventure? Do you defend your world view? Its not PUA stuff, but once you improve your core masculinity, you will naturally attract hotter women.
I have once spent 14 days in the wilderness of Russia with a small group of guys and then I was back home, I felt so top of the world that approaching hot girls was a breeze. And I had stories to tell

Hope this helps you Smile
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 03:31 PM by Vytas80.)
07-03-2012 03:27 PM
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elderado (07-05-2012)
SeXyBaCk Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
Might be a bit random, but I think it'll do you good to google your teenage sweetheart and give her a ring. You're still - not emotionally but in your ideas and ideals about women hung up on her. She's probably married with 2 children now. Would probably do you good to see she's a woman like any other. BTW what is it about DC, seems like it's renouned for having mean women or something? Guys always complaining about DC.
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 05:05 PM by SeXyBaCk.)
07-03-2012 05:03 PM
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luigi Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
Thanks man,

Each of these points really hit home for me.

1.) I think you're absolutely right about "lowering your expectations for yourself," or maybe I'd call it "accepting that you're good enough." I feel like I've spent so much time on the PUA/self-help treadmill that I never really stopped to look around and see what's changed. Namely me. My circumstances, lifestyle and confidence (in some areas) have come a long way since I was a fucktard 20-year old adrift in college. I keep waiting to learn some new skill or conquer some old fear so that I can approach women. Everything I need I've got at this point. What's that saying "We are the heroes we've been waiting for?"

2.) This point really dovetails with the last one. I don't put myself in nearly enough situations to be able to meet attractive women. In some ways I'm still living the social life of a 22-year old. Many of my closest friends go back to college, and I love them dearly, but they're never going to be the guy to chat up the cutest girl at the happy hour, club night, gallery opening etc. The people I work with are mainly older, married types who go straight home from the office. So I'm clearly missing the boat on getting out there and meeting other youngish, attractice professionals.

3.) I've read Deida's book (one of the best I've come across on this trip) and I completely agree with the masculine-feminine polarity thing. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen a truly smoking hot girl with a guy like myself: skinny, soft spoken, artistically inclined. I've never been terribly masculine, and I'd even go so far to say it's nothing I'm totally comfortable with. I'd always be the guy making fun of the jocks behind their backs, rather than getting out on the field and getting dirty myself.

This one is going to be a tough nut to crack, because it will basically mean trading in a big piece of who I am for a more masculine persona. I'm not even convined one can do that when they're 30 or older, but what choice do I have? I recently did a 5-day hike through the Peruvian Andes that left me feeling like more of a man. And of course girls just eat up stories about international travel and adventure. Maybe I need to keep following that impulse.

Thanks again for the insights, very useful

(07-03-2012 03:27 PM)Vytas80 Wrote:  I feel your pain man.
My situation is somewhat similar. I'm 32, professional with good things going carreer-wise and strong social circle of friends.
I was cheated and dumped badly by my high-school sweetheart in my early 20s and since then till my 30s I more often than not settled for mediocre relationships with mediocre girls. Also had a dry-spell of almost 2 years when I was hooked on Warcraft (nothing to be proud of). Things are way better now Smile

Your life sounds really cool to me!!
You seem to have your shit together. Basically, you rock now! Attractiveness-wise men are in their prime-time during 30-35. You can easily date women 10 years younger or older your age. It seems to me, your issue is, that somewhere deep-down your heart you feel unworthy to have a beautiful, sexy and loving girlfriend in your life. Like you have too little to offer her in return. Basically, you have too high expectations for yourself. I am no guru in, but here are a few tips that worked for me:

1. Lower your expectations for yourself. Don't become less ambitious, but just admit to yourself that you already have everything needed to have a great girl in your life. You may not believe it for yourself, but I am sure, there are atleast few hundred single and hot women in Washington DC that would consider you a great boyfriend material.

2. Allow high quality women to notice and choose you. Men do the picking part, women do the choosing part. Women choose men from the ones they have on their radar. It seems that medium quality women are already quite likely to choose you. So the more high quality women have you on their radar, the greater are your chances to be chosen. It is entirely up to you, how do you get on womens' radar. Play it to your strenghts. Daygame, bargame, online (for me personally its 'meh...'), art galleries, networking events, traveling, salsa dancing, fitness training. It doesn't matter really as long as you just walk to a woman you like and say "hello, my name is luigi..."

3. Unleash the wild-man inside you. I dont know how you look and what are your character attributes, but I feel that your religious upbringing has caged the man inside you. Religion by itself does no good for men. It teaches people to be obedient, modest, submissive, powerless and supressed - absolutely opposite of true masculinity. I would recommend you a book "The way of the superior man" by David Deida. According to this book, people end up together with partners who are their sexual reciprocal. Basically it says, that less feminine women (not so hot) choose less masculine men and vice versa - more feminine women (hot and sexy) choose more masculine men. My life experience has proven this statement to be true. What you can personally do - is to become a better man on a deep-core level of your heart. Is your appearance, posture and clothing manly enough? Do you pursue manly hobbies like sports and outdoor activities? Do you speak your truth without shame? Do you accept responsiblity not only for yourself but other people also? Do you make big decisions? Do you challenge yourself? Do you live a life full of passion and adventure? Do you defend your world view? Its not PUA stuff, but once you improve your core masculinity, you will naturally attract hotter women.
I have once spent 14 days in the wilderness of Russia with a small group of guys and then I was back home, I felt so top of the world that approaching hot girls was a breeze. And I had stories to tell

Hope this helps you Smile


Funny you mention that... she moved to DC two years ago. We wound up hooking up the night of her birthday and for a few days I really believed it was going to be a fairytake happy ending.

But after that things immediately went South. We proceeded to go on a series of increasingly awkward, stiff, boring dates. When it finally became clear that it wasn't going to work out I took it pretty badly. I balled my eyes out and was depressed for weeks. I felt like even after everything I'd done, after all I'd learned about game/women/pickup etc., I still couldn't figure out how to keep a quality woman.

Looking back now I have a lot more perspective. The truth was that we both changed, and didn't have that much in common anymore. She was still beautiful, but the things she's really passionate about now (fitness and food) don't really excite me.

In some ways I should be grateful that she moved here. I got my second chance with her, and it was a complete, utter flop. I never have to wonder if maybe she was "the one" for me, because she definitely isn't. I learned that the hard way, the only way
(07-03-2012 05:03 PM)SeXyBaCk Wrote:  Might be a bit random, but I think it'll do you good to google your teenage sweetheart and give her a ring. You're still - not emotionally but in your ideas and ideals about women hung up on her. She's probably married with 2 children now. Would probably do you good to see she's a woman like any other. BTW what is it about DC, seems like it's renouned for having mean women or something? Guys always complaining about DC.
(This post was last modified: 07-05-2012 09:15 PM by luigi.)
07-05-2012 09:03 PM
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SeXyBaCk Offline
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RE: The view from 30-- where to go from here
Good. Now you've got that down, there's no sense in ever thinking or mentioning her ever again.

I don't think you need to change who you are one bit. What you need to do is to go to some after work parties and meet like minded people. And if that doesnt suit you, there are endless bars down by the universities area no? I'm not too familiar with DC but I've been, I know there are plenty of women about. Have some fun, let your hair down. Join in on activities. In essence you need to get out of the house ASAP.
07-06-2012 07:21 AM
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