Should I Do the Approach Program if I'm Already Dating Girls?

[James]

I'm really interested in doing Mark's approach program but it came out right as I've been in a good situation. I was seeing 3 girls and now it looks like it's getting kinda serious with one who is basically my ideal type.

The thing is, I know that I'm still not totally confident approaching girls etc so I know it would be a really important thing to get handled. Having the girl kinda takes away from the urge to handle that issue though. At least I recognize it. I could see it getting a little confusing and messy if I started meeting lots of girls right now. Should I just wait till I'm single again? Any thoughts? Thanks

[Mark]

Wait until you're single again.

Beating approach anxiety is kind of like running. If you spend a month working on it really hard, you'll develop really good endurance. But then if you go and don't do it for 3-6 months, when you come back, you're out of shape. Granted, it always comes back much easier the next time, you still have to overcome it again.

There's no such thing as getting AA handled "permanently." You kind of just get better and better at overcoming it the more you do it.

[zkelvin]

Mark Wrote:Wait until you're single again.

Beating approach anxiety is kind of like running. If you spend a month working on it really hard, you'll develop really good endurance. But then if you go and don't do it for 3-6 months, when you come back, you're out of shape. Granted, it always comes back much easier the next time, you still have to overcome it again.

There's no such thing as getting AA handled "permanently." You kind of just get better and better at overcoming it the more you do it.

How would you compare approach anxiety with other forms of social anxiety? I feel like I have almost entirely overcome anxiety from sexual escalation-- even if I go 3-6 months without really doing it (for a new girl). I've also never really had especially bad fear of public speaking. But it seems like no matter how many approaches I do, it only becomes marginally more bearable.

[Mark]

Sexual anxiety has a lot to do with the girl and your relationship with her as well. A lot of sexual anxiety is overcome by becoming more comfortable with girls before you sleep with them. With approach anxiety, it's very rare you can ever become more comfortable with a person before speaking to them.

With public speaking, you're essentially performing. So I think your unconscious treats it a little differently. If you fuck up public speaking, it was a flaw in your delivery or your material or your performance, not your identity. When a hot girl tells you to get away from her, it's hard to not take it as a rejection of your identity.

I had horrible, horrible, horrible AA when I started. It didn't really become manageable a year or two, and even then it was still a very stressful experience for me, even though I could more or less do it on command. It took another two years to get to the point where it didn't feel stressful to do it, just a little uncomfortable. That's around when I discovered a lot of the stuff the program is based on and went out and tried that along with a friend of mine who had also always had AA. I did it more than him, but we both benefited a lot.

Strangely enough, I feel that traveling and living abroad has really affected my AA a lot. It's only now, after over six years that approaching doesn't really bother me much anymore, just some nerves and jitters -- in fact, I often find it fun and exciting now.

That's not to say that it will take everyone six years of going out. My guess is if I had known in 2005 what I know now, I could have more or less gotten to this point in a year or two.

[Schmechti]

Mark Wrote:That's not to say that it will take everyone six years of going out. My guess is if I had known in 2005 what I know now, I could have more or less gotten to this point in a year or two.

I guess you mean if you have heard about CBT and how to apply it with women.

It really took you three months to approach the first girl? So, you went out for three months alone (mainly daygame I guess), but never had the nerve to approach one, until three months later. That is interesting.

[Halo Effect]

I'm kind of in the same boat as some of the others in this thread. I am dating three girls currently, with other girls interested. I have it prety good.

Still, I very rarely approach, and I'm improving at everything pick up related except for approaching (although my anxiety is less, but I still don't approach on my own). I've had a bootcamp with a PUA coach and had 1-on-1 coaching from Mark, and both times I approached. With Mark I approached 15 times in a night and it seemed unreal how easy it was to approach girls at the end of that night. But then, afterwards, I didn't approach on my own. I have never gotten to the point where I would just approach more than 1 girl in a night by myself, or at least without being pushed to do it.

Now I wonder... should I just chill and enjoy my life now, or push myself to approach? A big part of me thinks that I would still really benefit from approaching, in overcoming anxiety and improving my dating/sex life. The other part of me thinks I'm a coward, and apparently accepts that I don't approach. It's easy to convince myself that I don't need to approach because I have an active sex life.

[Chaos]

Halo Effect Wrote:Now I wonder... should I just chill and enjoy my life now, or push myself to approach? A big part of me thinks that I would still really benefit from approaching, in overcoming anxiety and improving my dating/sex life. The other part of me thinks I'm a coward, and apparently accepts that I don't approach. It's easy to convince myself that I don't need to approach because I have an active sex life.

Enjoy... but if you don't have anything serious with any of those girls and you see a girl that you WANT to know, force yourself to approach... just be social. If you're dating girls then the whole concept of "practicing" makes no sense, but approaching the ones you really like and want to know makes all the sense in the world.

[Halo Effect]

Chaos Wrote:Enjoy... but if you don't have anything serious with any of those girls and you see a girl that you WANT to know, force yourself to approach... just be social. If you're dating girls then the whole concept of "practicing" makes no sense, but approaching the ones you really like and want to know makes all the sense in the world.

Good point. The idea of approaching for "practice" really doesn't connect with me. I want to be authentic when I approach. Also, I often see girls who I am attracted to and wouldn't mind sex with, but they are not so amazing that I would date them to "get in their pants". So that leaves the rare girls who look great and look at least a little interesting/intelligent. Which, I just realized, is a group that I'm very intimiated with before I approach.

So there's two groups: the "not worth the hassle to approach since I'm already dating girls at least as attractive" group and the "looks amazing so I'm too intimidated by her to approach" group. Interesting..

[Mark]

Halo, what you're describing is what I refer to "approach guilt" and a lot of guys have it, including myself for a long time. And that's this idea that you have to always be approaching, always be pushing yourself, always be achieving some goal, fucking every hot girl you see, etc.

This is unreasonable and completely impossible unless you give up your life. I mean, I went out 3-4 times one week here in Brazil and ended up hooking up with six girls. From there I literally didn't have enough time to see half of them again, nor did I want to. So why the hell would I force myself to go out and approach more?

This is why in Model sI define dating success as "maximizing happiness" and not defining it as achieving some mastery of some skill. Because you can always be "getting better" and at some point you have to decide you're satisfied with your results and just accept it.

For what it's worth, I often go weeks or months without approaching these days. It used to bother me and I used to feel guilty but now I don't give a shit. It's a tool I have, and just because you have a tool doesn't mean you go around and use it every day. You only use it when you need to.

[Halo Effect]

I think you're right. Like, last week I went out. Ended up making out for a while with the first and only girl I approached. She was playing games and she was not direct and honest the way I like it. I called her out on it. I asked if she wanted to come home with me. She kept being gamey. I said after a while that I would leave alone if she wasn't coming with. She wasn't coming so I left. Interestingly, the moment I chose to leave she grabbed my hand and placed it on her boob. But I didn't feel like playing games and she wasn't that hot anyway so I left.

I do not consider that a success, because I did only one approach (it was awful, like "I'm going to talk with you", I wasn't "smooth"), and I didn't get laid.

I also noticed the belief in myself that "every girl must find me attractive". Getting those things handled would give me a lot of peace of mind.

Edit: But I still want to approach the hot ones damnit! Or, more accurately: I want to date hotter girls and have sex with girls who just have amazing bodies. Besides the fact that I strongly desire that, I need to at least know what it's like because otherwise I can never settle down with a girl without wondering "am I missing out?".

[Chaos]

Mark Wrote:It's a tool I have, and just because you have a tool doesn't mean you go around and use it every day. You only use it when you need to.

I too have a tool, and I like to use all times and almost every day... that why I approach in the first place...

[Mark]

Approaching is the one area that I feel like I could be better at... but here's the thing, if you're going to go out to "work on approaching," then go out and work on approaching. Only approach girls who you find hot. Don't screw around with girls who play games, etc. Working on approaching is often counter-productive to getting laid.