Setting Boundaries vs. Being "Controlling"

[trader4life]

Okay, I really haven’t seen anything on this but either way here it is. I attribute some of this to a particular girl in question that I like quite a bit now, but this applies in many other “relationships” I have had over the last few years. Keep in mind I am a bit older than most of you guys (38), but would appreciate any feedback or experiences you all may have in relation to the subject matter.

What is a healthy balance between being non-reactive, and still not allowing your boundaries to be crossed? I consider myself to be non-reactive, if not genuinely aloof about many things that would make a lot of guys flip out or get all pissy over some trivial stuff. Trust me when I say this is something that I worked on pretty hard and have made tremendous progress once I was able to realize that I am the only one that can control how things affect me emotionally (yeah, I know, sounds all touchy-feely). Seriously though, I have dated and slept with a fair amount of women in the last two years, to include a nine and three month relationship and a hand full of flings/one night stands, all of which I was definitely “less invested” than the women were. Not that this is a great accomplishment for any of us, but it is just the way it worked out.

What I am unsure of is it seems when a guy voices his displeasure over something that he feels crosses his boundaries it is often perceived as being jealous, needy or both. I understand that the very idea of expressing displeasure is in a way being vulnerable (in that she may tell you to pound sand) and is the also being non-needy, in that you are basically telling the woman what you are willing to tolerate and not tolerate, even if it means losing her or having to cut her loose.

I guess my real question is (and I know it depends on the situation or the “offense”) – when you lay it out there that there is something you don’t like how is that not being controlling, needy or jealous?

Again, I understand that when we do this it is 100% for us and our well-being and not for how it is perceived. However, it just seems like a double edged sword to me.

There is a girl now that I have been seeing for about 6 weeks or so and I catch myself “forcing” non-reaction over some things just not to seem controlling. Yeah, I know, bad move, but the “offenses” are actually pretty minor, but bug me a bit more than if they would have come from other girls in the past (because I like her more – I know, “more invested = bad). I think maybe it is tough because this girl is hot and cold. Nothing super crazy and she is never ice cold, but I am starting to think she has some issues and I might just cut her loose (as much as I don’t want to).

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[SeXyBaCk]

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand the full extent of your question but I'll give it a shot.

When "she" does something i disapprove of, I generally aim to:
- bring it up the next time we're both rested, sober, and in private. Could be say the morning or day after, she calls, you answer - I'm not saying you should act all cold and bitchy but don't make excuses why you're sounding distant. (example) say: I'm alright but I thought the way you behaved last night wasn't cool. If you want to go out and dance physically with other guys (or whatever else the offence was as you put it), that's your prerogative, but I'd appreciate it you not doing it while dating me and in my presence. It makes me look stupid in front of others, in particular my friends. More importantly it made me feel weird. A date of mine has never done that to me. --- that's it, let her react to it. If she says she was just having fun and defends herself, say that effectively ruined your evening/weekend. And you're now going to go and do something to cheer yourself up. Go, leave, hang up. Let her sit on that for a while. If she apologises (more likely) reiterate that you didn't like it at all. Let her think of a way to make it up to you.

I think it's important to come right out when your really don't like something. If you decide to swallow something you swallow it, you don't bring it up later as a string of offences. That's whiny and very unattractive in my book. As in "and last month you did..." / if you're having an emotional reaction to something she does, let it out. But do it in the right environment and in a fair setting, don't ambush her either. And don't retaliate, that's childish.

Since I presume this woman is near or over 30, I assumed she's not doing what she's doing on purpose to get a reaction of out you. But it's not unthinkable. From my experience, in nearly all relationships I've been in women have tried on occasion to make me jealous, as a sort of game or test. Which I think I failed at times, because I didn't get jealous or didn't show it accordingly. I'm rather calm and collected most of the time and only really get loud and pissed when something major is up. If something's making you jealous... i think the best thing to do is to say, look, that made me feel jealous. I really hate feeling jealous. It's a most unpleasant sensation, a negative feeling, one I absolutely refuse to allow to be part of my life. (your emotional well-being is your top priority).

One can totally over-do the non-reaction, just as much as one can overdo the jealousy control freak mannerism. You've been seeing this person for six weeks, she's probably starting to wonder how much you care. I think from what you've written you actually do care quite a bit. But if you are seriously considering cutting her loose over her being sometimes cold then maybe...there's your clue right there. Don't waste your and her time if you don't care. If you do care, it's time to express it, and discuss some framework within which your relationship will progress.

[trader4life]

I hear ya man and pretty much all of what you said is in-line with the way I operate. This was a general question, but I used a specific and current example as well. For the general aspect, the women I have dated or had relationships with were normally 5 years either side of me. And yes, women over 30 and even 40 will still try to play the jealousy card in some way, shape or form at times. Granted, I generally chalk this up to their own insecurities, coupled with seeing if my non-re-activeness is genuine or contrived (again, their issue not mine).

Unfortunately in the past this has almost always been a HUGE turnoff for me when they do this, hence one of the reasons for me ending things. For my specific example of this girl, she is 27 and definitely on the ‘low-end’ of my dating range (age wise).

As for her wondering if I care, she has definitely expressed how much she likes me and I have reciprocated too and my actions with her have not given her any reason to doubt me. I think she has been hurt by a couple of guys and even in her own words is “scared of me hurting her”, so in a way this would appear as a manifestation of some of her insecurities as well. Maybe this is a red-flag and maybe not. As far as the hot and cold thing I think that might just be her pulling back at times because of this.

It is not like she flirts with other guys (that I’m aware of) or anything that most would consider intolerable actions. More so it just seems she will go from professing how much she likes me to seeming a bit aloof herself for a day or two at a time. Not so much to the point of being a “flake” but maybe that somewhat is what it feels like (which is possibly my perception issue to deal with, not hers).

I know firsthand how annoying it is when someone asks “is everything okay?” or “are your feelings changing?” or some crap like that. Huge turnoff and I want to avoid going down that road with her – as in me being the one saying that to her.

Whether any of us like it or not issues our past relationships end up being a sum of where we are at now as people and what our expectations are in dating and in a relationship. The problem is that some never deal with their “issues”, so negative behavior and habits tend to repeat for those people and sometimes even worsen.

[Alvar]

When trying to decide how to deal with a behavior they have deemed unacceptable, I encourage Nice Guys to apply the Healthy Male Rule. Following this rule of thumb, they simply ask themselves, "How would a healthy male handle this situation?" For some reason, just asking this question connects them with their intuitive wisdom and helps them access the power they need to respond appropriately.
Once the Nice Guy knows he can set a boundary any time he needs to, he can let people move toward him, get close, have feelings, be sexual, and so on. He can let these things happen because he is confident that at any point, if he begins to feel uncomfortable, he can say "stop," "no," or "slow down," or can remove himself. He can do whatever he needs to do to take care of himself.

Read chapter 7 of Glover's No More M.Nice Guy for more. However, from your example it sounds like you may be taking too much responsibility for her emotions and actions. Unless you have reason to believe that she is provoking you, you must accept that some days she will feel cold towards you, she may want to distance herself; and your job there is to respect her, as she is.

[SeXyBaCk]

Sounds pretty much like she's just a reserved girl. I've dated such a person for a while and there's nothing positive you can do apart from giving them their space, don't attempt to get them to open up about reasons (there's usually a reason, a reminder, memory etc, often ver ylame), they'll feel cornered and shitty for feeling currently how they feel if you hold an inquest, because they do know they like you or even love you but can't help feeling currently cold. One doesn't have to be lovey dovey all the time to have a good, healthy relationship.

IF it feels awkward at these times, you could point out that you don't have to hang out all the time, if she needs her space she should communicate it straight out.. that would avoid those kind of evening where you both sit there and it's kinda awkward. Because I know as a guy just sitting there looking at the girl you're with with... well, the natural desire to do stuff surfaces sooner rather than later. And then you make your move and their off in their head somewhere, you get rejection, and that will lead to an argument.

Whatever it is that makes her this way, it's not up to you to "fix" her or "solve" her. Best you can do is accept it and let her know you like her for the way she is. Some people just are independent and need a lot of personal space and don't always enjoy the feeling of being dependent on or (emotionally) under the influence of a man. It's a sort of rebel reaction and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it apart from accepting it.

The woman I know who is like this, its never going to change, it's just how she's wired, she'll always be this way, it's become a source of humour for us. I can imagine though that the closer the two of you get, the less her need becomes for her "my space".