Questions about beginning approaching

[CartesianTheater]

Thanks for all the responses everybody. There's too many to respond to every one. I think a big first step is just to accept and get used to the idea that women are actually even open to this. It's kind of outside of paradigm right now (though quickly changing thanks in part to this thread, a conversation with my therapist, and a pretty in depth conversation with one of co-workers, she was basically complaining that guys won't just approach her in public and asking me how she can get them to, because she doesn't like to go out bars. )

I have a specific belief and associated behavior that this brought up for me that I would like to address in the this thread but don't have to time to post it at this exact second.

[CartesianTheater]

(12-19-2012 09:05 PM)Jon Wrote:  2) if you can't maintain 5 minutes of chit chat during the first meeting, what do you expect will happen on the date?

I re-read this thread and this stuck out at me. I seems like the difference is once someone has agreed to meet me there has already been the inner decision of acceptance made, I feel more open to truly show myself. Not that anything is guaranteed, but that at least I have someone who for a few minutes is going to sit and give me the time of day and make an honest decision based on real experience. Whereas when I walk up to a stranger at a bar or store there is going to be skepticism. It feels like to me that a womans natural inclination is always to reject any guy outright. She has a self identity built and it seems with most women it's largely based around how shitty guys are, they all angry and bitter , it's your job to just obliterate all those beliefs to the point that she can't help but drop them, but she's gonna fight tooth and nail not to. It seems like an almost superhuman feat. It may or may not be true but this is how it feels to me. It is written on many of their faces if you go out. It seems like the most important thing is to not show any emotion, to be hard, to be aloof, to be to good for in order to prove desirability and ultimately not get hurt. To not get that resistance you have to be such a safe bet that it's just unreal. But once your out, even if it's just for 15 minutes getting coffee, that stage has already been surpassed. You talking to someone is who is starting to, or is at least saying they may be prepared to drop all that. I think that's the same thing with approaching girls who have already indicated (even in a small way) interest, they are being vulnerable enough that they are showing that they are capable of it. There is a genuine openness there.

I recognize that this whole belief system isn't helping me, but it doesn't feel safe to drop. I've been an open person, outspoken about who I am, and it just invites a lot of criticism and rejection, and maybe I'm being too sensitive, but that hurts, it feels like deep down at some point I've made the decision that it's better to be closed off and to defend myself. It's like I want I see it's not serving me, and I want to drop it, I don't how, I'm not convinced the alternative is any better. So maybe when you approach and you don't show yourself, it doesn't feel like a reflection on you to get rejected. It seems like I have an awareness of all this, but I don't know what to do with it.

[The Notorious PhD]

@CartesianTheater:

I see two problems that you should work on, and I will try to dissect and discuss them both:

1. You're projecting too many of your negative beliefs and attitudes, and it turns into a vicious self-fulfilling prophecy which is hurting you. Before talking to someone if you think they're just a callous, indifferent person who isn't open and will reject you anyway, how can you expect your interaction to go smoothly?

2. You're putting WAY too much stock into other people's opinion of you. You say it hurts when you open yourself up and get rejected. It only hurts because you think their opinion of you is valid, that it contains some truth, that it is more important than your own opinion of yourself.

Now, regarding your first problem of projection.

The fix is quite simple, though not so easy to implement. You have to force yourself to believe that human beings are beautiful and lovable. Just as, right now, you've forced yourself to believe they're not.

When you do this, you'll find that people will respond differently to you. Most of them will open up to you. Some will still be belligerent and catty, and you simply ignore these ones and move on. But you never let any single interaction take away your capacity for compassion and love. Ever.

For your second problem:

Let's take an extreme example. Say you're talking to a girl she says "you know, I don't like you because you have two eyes. Poke one eye out and only then I'll talk to you. I only like one-eyed guys, so if you want shot with me buddy, poke out your left eye."

Would you do it?

Of course not! You'd tell the crazy bitch to step away.

That was an extreme example, but my point is that you should feel the same way for EVERYTHING about yourself - good and bad. You fully accept yourself. Once you do that, you'll never be hurt over what someone else says. There will still be disappointment and sadness, but it won't keep you down; you'll brush it off and try again.

You can build this kind of confidence if you're willing to put in a LOT of effort over a long time. You do this in two ways:

(1) You invest in yourself. You do things that make you happy and make you proud, regardless of what anyone thinks. You make a commitment to improve yourself everyday, so that YOU FEEL that you're a better person. And you do all this with the full understanding that you're only doing it for YOU. That even if no one else is impressed, you'll still be happy because you did these things.

(2) You remove negative, irrational thought-patterns. A lot of us (myself included) have these anxieties and hang-ups because we have extremely unrealistic beliefs about the world. To combat these negative beliefs, look into Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy. There are many books/handbooks on it, pick one and work through it (and I mean really put an honest effort in). If books don't help, get a therapist.

Hope this makes sense.

[CartesianTheater]

Thanks. I was a little afraid to even check the responses. I was kind of afraid it would just be a bunch of people calling me a victim. It was nice to log on and find this response that you clearly took some time and an objective look to make. I appreciate it.

I get really frustrated because, you know, I'm trying to improve, and I'm doing a good job, I've improved my life immensely over the past couple of years but it gets really hard, and starts to feel like I'm chasing my tail, and nobody cares if I make it or not. Sometimes I need some support and there's nobody there, I don't really know how to stay motivated. It just seems like it's always been a certain way for me and it's hard to imagine it being different. Which is what I would say to the solutions you give. I don't really have a reference of people being beautiful or kind to me, quite the opposite really, so the thought patterns don't seem irrational. It kind of seems irrational to believe something that's contrary to my experience. I want to change, I want to see things different but it kind of feels like lying to myself and setting myself up to be blindsided at some point in the future.

[Cosmo]

"I get really frustrated because, you know, I'm trying to improve, and I'm doing a good job, I've improved my life immensely over the past couple of years but it gets really hard, and starts to feel like I'm chasing my tail, and nobody cares if I make it or not. Sometimes I need some support and there's nobody there, I don't really know how to stay motivated."

I know the feeling dude! Its great to have a supportive person or two to give us a helping hand when we need it. I've been working on this shit a lot and sometimes I get down or depressed but then something always happens to give me an omen that I'm meant to keep pushing myself and fighting the good fight! Like the little engine that could just keep on rollin!

[The Notorious PhD]

(12-23-2012 03:28 AM)CartesianTheater Wrote:  I get really frustrated because, you know, I'm trying to improve, and I'm doing a good job, I've improved my life immensely over the past couple of years but it gets really hard, and starts to feel like I'm chasing my tail, and nobody cares if I make it or not. Sometimes I need some support and there's nobody there, I don't really know how to stay motivated. It just seems like it's always been a certain way for me and it's hard to imagine it being different. Which is what I would say to the solutions you give. I don't really have a reference of people being beautiful or kind to me, quite the opposite really, so the thought patterns don't seem irrational. It kind of seems irrational to believe something that's contrary to my experience. I want to change, I want to see things different but it kind of feels like lying to myself and setting myself up to be blindsided at some point in the future.

1. It's not that "nobody cares". In fact, the most important person in the world cares: YOU. That's the only person who needs to care. Your happiness and success are YOUR responsibility. That's how it is for everyone. If you keep needing others to care for you, you'll always remain enslaved to their whims. You'll be happy only when they allow you to be happy.

2. The belief that people are beautiful and wonderful must come first. The belief has to precede the evidence. And I don't fully buy your "people have never been kind to me" thing. I think you're only focusing on the times when people were unkind, rather than focusing on the times they were kind. Whether or not you realize it, you're making a choice on which aspect of this complex world you should focus on. I'm telling you to choose to focus on the beautiful - even if, right now, it seems there's no evidence for it. The evidence comes later (credit: Steve Pavlina)

3. You used the word "feels like" and it's correct. Because all this negative stuff you're experiencing, that's all it is: a feeling. Your mind, however, takes this feeling and makes you think that feelings have some objectivity tied to them. Not at all. The same exact event can happen to two people, a pessimist and an optimist, they'll both interpret it vastly differently. Do you see?

4. Right now: even if you don't believe me, even if everything I've said seems hard and silly to practice, I encourage to just try it for the next 6 months. That's a minuscule fraction of your life. Just try, with every ounce of willpower you've got, (1) to believe the world is 100% on your side, (2) to understand that your happiness is your responsibility, and no matter what, you're going to try everyday to make it happen. Do this for 6 months and tell us how it goes.

You're at the beginning of a great journey.

[TheoJ]

Where are the fucking likes?

[CartesianTheater]

PhD, Thank you, again.

(12-23-2012 11:00 PM)TheoJ Wrote:  Where are the fucking likes?

Where are the likes?