Perception on looks

[slowhands]

Hello, I'm new here, was linked through aaron sleazy's blog roll. Look him up if you don't know him, pretty solid stuff.

Anyways. Something I noticed and wanted other's thoughts on....it seems as though White guys perceive asian girls to be REALLY attractive but the same can't be said the other way around. That is - white girls finding asian men REALLY attractive.

Whats with that? I don't understand how this works (to an extent) in only one way.

I know there are inter-racial couples with asian guys and white girls BUT it isn't as prevelant as white guys with asian girls.

It isn't talked about in the same way either. If you hear white guys talking about asian chicks they salivate at the thought of getting them....you don't hear that kinda talk from white girls....from my experience anyways.


Thoughts, opinions???

[Mark]

Asian culture tends to be more passive and less confrontational -- traits which typically make women more attractive and men less so.

There's a similar dynamic with black men and women with white men and women. I think it has much more to do with culture than skin color though.

[sledgehammer]

Asian men doesnt have as manly features as white men for example, they are not as aggressive, not as assertive and doesnt have the "dominant look" to them. And we all know that girls dig that shit.

Asian men generally look more feminine and come off as more "submissive", they also have less testosterone.

Thats probably one of the reasons.

[NDO]

Is there any empirical evidence on lower testosterone levels in asian men sledgehammer?

[Jon]

also asian women are way less likely to be fat than most other ethnic groups, in my unscientific observation. Big plus. I definitely think the stereotype of submissive asian women is attractive to some men, although I question how valid it is.

[sledgehammer]

NDO Wrote:Is there any empirical evidence on lower testosterone levels in asian men sledgehammer?

Im not 100%, but I do think there is, look it up on the net.

I can remember reading afro american having the highest, and asian the lowest, or something like that.

[Jon]

this sounds made up

[sledgehammer]

Jon Wrote:this sounds made up

Nah man, Im sure u can find studies on the internet. Think about it, its pretty logical.

Asian men tend to be of lesser height, weight, muscle-mass, body-hair (but on the head), less aggressive, less "manly", not having these typical chiseled features that communicate high testosterone, not as deep and dark of a voice.

[Jon]

"I'm sure you can find studies on the internet" is not a rebuttal to "this sounds made up."

[sledgehammer]

oh well

[crazyhorse]

are you sure this isn't jkxy with a different nickname? LOL

I can't wait till Brian is going to read this thread.

[slowhands]

Mark Wrote:Asian culture tends to be more passive and less confrontational -- traits which typically make women more attractive and men less so.

There's a similar dynamic with black men and women with white men and women. I think it has much more to do with culture than skin color though.

Hmm...interesting, so you think its a cultural thing rather based on physical features. Like some poster above said, asian men tend to have softer features, more fuller faces. Whether that has anything to do with testosterone, i'm not sure. I definately have a round baby face.

What your saying Mark makes sense in a way, both asian men and women have similiar features yet only one is seen as more attractive than the other by white folks.

[TheBoss]

On average, white men are more physically attractive than Asian men. No homo.

[Mark]

Physical features may have something to do with it. But I guarantee you that if Asian culture produced highly dominant men who could express themselves well, then the stereotype would be that Asian guys get all the girls. And if Asian culture produced women who were pushy, ungrateful and bitchy, then the stereotype would be nobody dates them.

Behavior trumps looks. We shouldn't have to review that.

[Jon]

Mark Wrote:And if Asian culture produced women who were pushy, ungrateful and bitchy, then the stereotype would be nobody dates them.

Then how do you explain russian women?

[Mark]

Jon Wrote:Then how do you explain russian women?

They're retardedly hot. They can get away with whatever they want.

And hey, don't hate on my babushkas. I fucking <3 Russian women.

[Jon]

so in sum: behavior trumps looks, unless you are retardedly hot, then you can get away with anything.

Actually, that's about right.

[Mark]

Pretty much.

[IdEngager]

I'm an Asian guy and I definitely think it's more of a cultural thing than anything. There's going to be obvious genetic differences between different groups of people but how much of it can be blamed on solely that? I've known Asian guys who were taller (6 foot plus, mostly Chinese or Korean) who've had the same dating insecurities as shorter Asian dudes.

There were definitely times when I heard discouraging things growing up - it was sorta sad in college how many times I'd talk to an Asian girl and they'd mention how'd they'd only date white guys or something like that - but I've noticed a change in attitudes as I've matured and the people I deal with have matured. Probably the biggest challenge you have as an Asian guy (or any other minority, really), is you don't get to define yourself at first. Sorta like how for a long time intelligent black guys would get knocked cause they weren't "thuggish". When people first meet you, you can't just be a "jock" or a "frat guy" or a "musician", you're that "Asian jock" or "Asian musician" or whatever. But once people get to know you better as an individual, you get over that. From personal experience, it seems like the less traditional a girl is herself, the less of an issue it is, whether it's by upbringing or self-identification. The hipster and punk girls love me. Latinas and Persians. Even black girls. Really, it seems to come up most with the "young professional" type, but I have enough other options where I don't bother fighting it usually.

So I don't deny race or looks are a thing, else PUA communities wouldn't have a disproportionate amount of Asian men in it. But like Mark says, behavior trumps looks, and honestly a lot of Asian guys could do themselves better on the looks department as well.

[Justin]

Asian guy here too. Thought I'd chime in because this is a hot issue in the asian american community.

It is most definitely a cultural thing. It's not like we're unattractive at all. Many of my asian guy friends have dated white girls, persian girls (me), hispanic girls etc. Growing up there is a lot of cultural pressure to do well in school and your career (more specifically chinese/japanese). We're constantly judged based on what school we went to, what kind of career we have by not only our family but other asians as well. We size each other up by comparing what schools we went to, its a subconcious thing and even I catch myself doing.

so naturally, this puts our love lives on the backburner. So, its not until after college we're like "So... it's probably time to get a girlfriend now" and a lot of us scratch our heads and say "wtf am I suppose to do?". I didn't really think about seriously dating or dating at all until after college. We missed out a lot of the making out behind the bleachers in high school stuff.

A lot of my friends are like that, some are still clueless. Since we kind of missed the memo in high school and college, we're stuck playing catch up in our mid 20s (I know I am for sure). For the girls, its easy because you can sit back and let the guys do all the work. For us guys, we gotta figure that shit out on ourselves.

It also doesn't help that a lot of us grew up playing video games in addition to school either which will stunt our social skills...

[Brian]

Hey, if you wonder can you be attractive enough to get girls, just post your picture on hotornot. I've seen white guys on it who gets 6.0 while asian guy gets 9.9...guess which one gets more chicks base on looks alone. Maximize your fitness and you'll maximize your looks. When it comes down to it, women are attracted to good looking attractive men with game from all races.

[Matt T]

Can't find any proof for Asian men having low Test.

Anyways, I think it's all cultural. Asian cultures (East and South) value excellence in school/work and deference to authority. They completely disregard an individual's personal issues, assuming they will work themselves out. Except they don't. Our cultural upbringing has failed us. That's why we're here.

If Indian and Chinese cultures placed a greater value on fake tans, working out, and looking fashionable rather than Ritalin-fueled study sessions, PUA communities wouldn't have disproportionate amounts of Asians and Indians.

Is it any surprise that successful Asian PUAs distance themselves from traditional cultural values? Matador was an amateur bodybuilder, and used the name "Jason" in field. DJ Fuji peacocks like it's 2005. I'm sure Mark can give you more examples.

[IdEngager]

So I looked up a picture of this Matador guy, and he looks hilariously like an Indian friend of mine in college who got attention from all the girls (all races, too). When he felt like dressing up, he looked like he walked off a Bollywood set or something. Despite all the natural attention, he was about the biggest pansy around girls I've ever met (even I, as a meek introvert who rarely got laid in college, could see that). It's like he wanted his relationships with girls to resemble something out of The Notebook. By contrast, I had another Indian roommate, who looked something like The Situation, if he decided to stop working out after the age of 16, so like a brown, somewhat soft looking Situation (he wasn't fat or anything, just not cut), but got laid all the time cause he was damn good at talking to people. He wouldn't try and out-alpha anyone or anything, or constantly dominate conversations or situations, but he just knew how to make people trust him and open up to him (figuratively and literally). It helped that he was the one who got along and knew everybody and was the one constantly dragging my ass to parties.

If those two guys didn't provide a contrast in behavior versus looks...

Quote:If Indian and Chinese cultures placed a greater value on fake tans, working out, and looking fashionable rather than Ritalin-fueled study sessions, PUA communities wouldn't have disproportionate amounts of Asians and Indians.

I don't think this is completely true, or at least mutually exclusive. How would this explain bleaching and the premium on light skinned actors in Bollywood or Philippine entertainment (I think this also holds true for a lot of other Asian countries)? Or Asians getting eyelid surgery to look more white? And when I ran into Korean tourists in Asia, they look liked they just walked out of some hipster fashion show. I don't think Asian societies are necessarily any more or less image conscious than Western ones, they just do so in different ways.

I'm not sure how those guys are supposed to represent themselves with traditional cultural values? Like start meeting girls in basketball shorts and a ratty t-shirt and a bad haircut like guys from my engineering class, or as a samurai, or what? Personally I'm happy whenever we can break through some archetypes... even if I think the guys in Far East Movement are lame, I can at least think of them as "lame rappers" instead of "lame Asian dudes".

[slowhands]

I like the discussion, so far.

My main problem is that I don't find myself attractive because I don't match that north american ideal of what good looking is "supposed" to be. I find myself to be kinda ugly in comparison to be honest. What I'm grappling with is...am I actually not attractive or do I see myself this way because I don't fit that model of what a good looking guy should look like??

Comparitively I look very distinct from the typical "white male"... I've also found that the asians guys who are considered good looking also happen to be very "white looking" hence the popularity of surgeries and skin lighteners in asian that try to make asian people look more euro-centric.

Am I ugly cuz Im asian or ugly cuz Im ugly...thats the question - hard for me to say that but I had to put it out there.

Funny someone mentioned far east movement because I really do look like one of those guys. lol.

[Mark]

Looks have a little to do with it. Race has even less to do with it. The fact that you feel ugly affects your results 5x more than whether you're actually ugly or not.

There are tons of physically ugly men or totally unconventional men who women find irresistible.