Neuroenhancers

[Oli]

After reading somewhere that Ayn Rand was addicted to amphetamines (and watching the movie Limitless xD), I looked into "neuroenhancers" a bit. Looks like they're becoming more and more commonplace.

Fascinating article on the topic: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/...rentPage=1

[Matt T]

Yeah, pretty much every dude in a science class, except for me, is on amphetamines or methylphenidates. It's disgusting.

In a perfect world, schools would drug-test students before exams, but that's never going to happen.

At least I can take comfort in the fact that the drugs have serious side effects for some people, including vomiting, depression, and even hallucinations.

[Mark]

Adderall makes me depressed... unfortunately.

[Justin]

Matt T Wrote:Yeah, pretty much every dude in a science class, except for me, is on amphetamines or methylphenidates. It's disgusting.

In a perfect world, schools would drug-test students before exams, but that's never going to happen.

At least I can take comfort in the fact that the drugs have serious side effects for some people, including vomiting, depression, and even hallucinations.

Damn, it's that competitive? Where did you go to school where they took drugs before tests?

Has anyone tried nootropic drugs before? It's suppose to increase your concentration, focus, intelligence and confidence level. I ordered some and gonna give it a go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam

[Oli]

Does anyone here really (ahem, Mark and Justin) believe in neuroenhancers as a solid long-term solution to improved discipline and success? Seems sketchy as hell to me to mess with you brain chemistry and rely on drugs instead of forming positive habits...

[Justin]

gabe Wrote:Does anyone here really (ahem, Mark and Justin) believe in neuroenhancers as a solid long-term solution to improved discipline and success? Seems sketchy as hell to me to mess with you brain chemistry and rely on drugs instead of forming positive habits...

Personally, I never had a problem with focus and discipline. I always found my own method of being focused and disciplined during school. I'm going to experiment a bit with piracetam and see what happens. It supposedly doesn't have any toxic effects in the short term and the long term.

[Mark]

No, I don't think they're a long-term solution. A short-term boost and/or tool, yes. But long-term solution, no. I only have experiences with Ritalin and Adderall, but you have to realize that they don't just change how well you think, but they change HOW you think as well. I didn't like how I was on those substances. Made me depressed, negative and slightly compulsive. Sure, I got a ton of shit done. But sometimes I'd sober up and realize I had just worked for 4 hours on something I didn't really care about (i.e., reorganizing an entire music collection).

[Justin]

Long term, I think its best to develop a sense of discipline and focus on your own. If you have trouble focusing then pinpoint what distracts you and try to eliminate it. Everybody's different on how they go about their tasks. Me for an example work the best when I'm not at home. My environment is everything. I need to be at school or at work in order to complete a certain task. If I'm at home my bed is such a distraction that I will not get work done, period.

I know people who have taken Adderall and Ritalin but they were special cases since they are diagnosed with ADD. It's an awfully expensive habit just to get an A on test. You could argue caffeine is a neuroenhancer too. I drink coffee like water at work. So whether or not its ethical is debatable.

Adderall is a great party drug though. It's like ecstasy without the happy and you talk at like 100 miles per hour.

[Oli]

Yeah... I took a monster dose of adderall once and couldn't sleep for about three days. Felt energized as hell on it. Quite hostile too.

[Mark]

In general, I hate speed. I was diagnosed with ADHD in high school and was prescribed Adderall. When I was 16, I voluntarily went off of it because I hated it and figured I didn't want to have to take it my entire life just to be able to think. Coming off of it, sure my grades dropped, but discipline is all about a mindset, a choice, and a daily habit. In high school, on Adderall, I averaged B's and off of it I average C's. Three years later, after I had transferred to a prestigious university in the northeast, I made straight A's for my first 3 semesters, sometimes overloading on coursework, and with no Adderall. What changed was I had made a decision to get my shit together, to be responsible and to be disciplined. Meditation helped me a ton with my ADHD. I still "suffer" from it, but I'm aware of my tendencies now and am aware of how my mind works. Just like Justin found what works for him, I eventually found what works for me.

I do drink a ton of caffeine though.

[Matt T]

Justin Wrote:Damn, it's that competitive? Where did you go to school where they took drugs before tests?

Has anyone tried nootropic drugs before? It's suppose to increase your concentration, focus, intelligence and confidence level. I ordered some and gonna give it a go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam

Pretty much every school is filled with Adderall abusers now. It was exceedingly common when I went to Rice University, and it's just as common even at the state school I'm at now.

On a funnier note, a few of my friends also try to use Adderall to enter altered states of consciousness by combining it with alcohol, marijuana, and even cocaine in one case. I just wonder why you would want to try such a thing.



I know that a few places have started drug testing before Chess tournaments, such as the Asian Games. But many Chess players argue that neuroenhancers don't actually help, and can even hurt by giving you cognitive tunnel vision. Some people jokingly speculate that neuroenhancer abuse was the reason for Kramnik's infamous "blunder of the century" against the computer Deep Fritz, where he failed to see a mate-in-one.

[Mark]

Using Adderall to reach altered states of consciousness? No offense, but your friends are idiots.

Just buy some shrooms. Go camping. Bring a Pink Floyd album. Done. Coming down off of a bunch of speed (Adderall or otherwise) is such an unpleasant experience. There's nothing worse than being up for 30 hours straight and laying in bed completely exhausted, but unable to shut your mind off to fall asleep. It's hell.

[Heisenberg]

I take piracetam in combination with choline regularly. I notice a sharp increase in focus, with none of the jittery, phasic idiocy of stimulants.

Anther great supplement is L-Theanine which counters all the jittery effects of caffeine, lessens anxiety and promotes calm. It's an extract of green tea.

[Justin]

Heisenberg Wrote:I take piracetam in combination with choline regularly. I notice a sharp increase in focus, with none of the jittery, phasic idiocy of stimulants.

Anther great supplement is L-Theanine which counters all the jittery effects of caffeine, lessens anxiety and promotes calm. It's an extract of green tea.

Yea, I took some yesterday and I really noticed an increase in confidence and focus. I wonder how it works in a social setting and hitting on girls. I hear piracetam + MDMA makes for a great night.

[Mark]

MDMA usually comes laced with some sort stimulant already. Taking some on top of it would probably be overkill.