NOT A RACE THREAD - Anxiety Management

[IdEngager]

In reviewing Mark's Three Fundamentals, I feel like over the last year or two, my lifestyle has improved immensely and I'm pretty well calibrated. It doesn't take me that bloody many approaches to get a number or get a date, and the girls in my social circle and that I meet are pretty much exactly the kind I've always wanted to date (pretty much a bunch of Zooey Deschanel and Mila Kunis types). Suffice to say, this is pretty awesome.

Despite all that, I still get the most crippling social anxiety, especially when I'm already out with people that I know. I used to go out a lot by myself, and I dealt with it just fine. Sure there were nights when I went home completely empty handed and it sucked, but it was liberating enough where I felt no pressure and the anxiety would go away cause I knew absolutely no one was watching. Introduce a friend or two though, and I turn into a bumbling idiot, to the point where a girl would blatantly hit on me and they'd go "Dude, what are you doing?" And as my various socials expand and my various careers progress (work, music, rec sports), I get invited to more and more shit where I already know a bunch of people. It's rare now I'd get a night out to sarge by myself, and a lot of times when I do get a few nights to myself I like to spend it at home. I know I should feel like no one's watching, and ultimately no one is, but it sends me straight back to awkward idiot mode.

That's one thing I did like the couple times I went out with PUA types. Even though occasionally I'd feel like they were poorly calibrated or poorly dressed or talked in a bunch of lingo, they'd push me to make a ton of approaches and flop on my face.

Any tips?

[Brian]

Direct Approaches, day game zero alcohol for at least 500 times. Do it like 20-30 times per day.

Trust me, keep plowing away and eventually most of your anxiety will go away.

[Leo]

Brian is taliking about Desensitization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitiza...sychology) , it's true it's part of the equation but if you are like me and you are a lot in your head over-analizing I reccomend you the books: The Power of Now by Ekchart Tolle and How to Stop Worrying and Start Living by Dale Carnegie. It is not easy to break bad habits and worry is a bad habit. Also I've noticed that there's a correlation between Guilt and Anxiety, so you have to get rid of your guilt to be free of anxiety. I'm currently reading the book: Shame and Guit masters of disguise by Jane Middelton-Moz and it shed some light about the subject. Of course therapy is always helpful if you think you need it.
I hope this helps.

[Brian]

Honestly, the more books you read, the more you're going to feel self conscious. The two rule of thumb to remember is, hit on more chicks to desensitized. The second is social momentum, the more girls you hit on, the more momentum you will feel and the less AA you will have. The bottom line is, hit on as many girls as you can.

Set a goal that you already hit on 30 girls at least in one day. If you set a goal that high, you should hit on at least 25.

[Edmond Dantès]

Brian Wrote:Honestly, the more books you read, the more you're going to feel self conscious. The two rule of thumb to remember is, hit on more chicks to desensitized. The second is social momentum, the more girls you hit on, the more momentum you will feel and the less AA you will have. The bottom line is, hit on as many girls as you can.

Set a goal that you already hit on 30 girls at least in one day. If you set a goal that high, you should hit on at least 25.

This is like a "going with the head through the wall" - approach to lower your AA.

The key to successfully lowering your AA is increased desensibilisation. If you try to do 30 Sets on your first day then it's most likely that you'll fail and feel bad about yourself.I experienced it myself and saw it happen over and over again when Newbies had their first day. They maybe did five sets out of 30 and felt bad about themselves or they did none and felt even worse because other guys told them to do their first set ever direct and they were to afraid for this step...Or they did the 30 sets but went out the next time 2 weeks later, which doesn't make sense because lowering your AA is a skill that is developed by the habit of talking to girls frequently...

I just wrote down this "program", I think Mark has given you such a program in his books as well...

So Day 1) Go out and think about approaching women you like.
Day 2) Go out and ask 10 girls "what time is it?"
Day 3) Go out and ask 10 pretty girls "what time is it?"
Day 4) Go out and ask 10 pretty girls for a handkerchief
Day 5) Go out and ask 10 pretty girls for the way to XYZ
Day 6) Go out and ask 10 pretty girls for the way to XYZ and ask them how their day is going
Day 7) Go out and ask 10 pretty girls for the way to XYZ and ask them how their day is going + give them an honest compliment
Day 8) Go out and tell 10 pretty girls that you think they're kinda cute and that you'd like to get to know them better.

I did "programs" like that for several times myself, when I didn't approached for a longer time and they work all the time. If you're totally scared or a day1-newbie, then I recommend you doing this program with an experienced wing...

@IdEngager:

You could apply such a plan to your situation as well to lower your social anxiety. I am pretty confident that this will work, because I worked with increased "desensibilisation" when I was afraid of heights in the bath or when I still had my arachnaphobia. (I can touch now any medium size spider without freaking out)

It seems to be so that you worry a lot about what other people (especially your friends) are thinking of you as you approach women you like.
Ask yourself this question "Why am I so concerned about this?" Are you afraid of loosing a reputation or value? Are you afraid of being seen as a player? How do you think would your friends react when they see you talking to a hottie you're interested in? Why do you think this way about how they would react? Is it a realistic scenario that they would react the way you think they would react?

It could be so that a lot of limiting beliefs block you. The questions above could help you identifying them...

And honestly all guys who are going out want to a) have fun and
b) get to know girls

So there is nothing wrong about approaching girls when you're friends are around. As I already wrote a few sentences above, look out for limiting beliefs that stop you. IMO is this your biggest problem.

[Leo]

IMHO AA is the easiest anxiety to overcome. there are multiple kind of anxieties: sexual anxiety, intimacy anxiety, anxiety with women that you really like and you are afraid to "lose" them, anxiety related to guilt, etc. That's why I read so many books, I'd love to believe that AA is the only anxiety to overcome, in that case PU woulde be a piece of cake and it's not.

[Edmond Dantès]

You're absolutely right about that, but don't you think that you should give the increased desensibilisation progress a chance to solve these anxieties? I bet you don't want to have them forever, but therefore you do have to take action and show some courage as you confront your fears.

If nothing helps, go to a therapist.

[Leo]

I didn't say I'm not taking action. I' ve had sex with 25 women in my life. What I'm trying to say is that anxiety is not only AA. I know because I suffer of PTSD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptsd Anxiety is a big part of my life but I can't rely ONLY on desensitization, therapy helps me to know what's going on, why I react in the way I react in certain circumstances and the books are a huge complement to therapy, at least they are helped me a lot, especially The Power of Now.
I learn something new from every experience with a new woman, litlle by little I decrease my anxiety. I'm not gonna chage over-night, nobody does.

Edmond Dantès Wrote:You're absolutely right about that, but don't you think that you should give the increased desensibilisation progress a chance to solve these anxieties? I bet you don't want to have them forever, but therefore you do have to take action and show some courage as you confront your fears.

If nothing helps, go to a therapist.

[IdEngager]

Edmond Dantès Wrote:@IdEngager:

You could apply such a plan to your situation as well to lower your social anxiety. I am pretty confident that this will work, because I worked with increased "desensibilisation" when I was afraid of heights in the bath or when I still had my arachnaphobia. (I can touch now any medium size spider without freaking out)

It seems to be so that you worry a lot about what other people (especially your friends) are thinking of you as you approach women you like.
Ask yourself this question "Why am I so concerned about this?" Are you afraid of loosing a reputation or value? Are you afraid of being seen as a player? How do you think would your friends react when they see you talking to a hottie you're interested in? Why do you think this way about how they would react? Is it a realistic scenario that they would react the way you think they would react?

It could be so that a lot of limiting beliefs block you. The questions above could help you identifying them...

And honestly all guys who are going out want to a) have fun and
b) get to know girls

So there is nothing wrong about approaching girls when you're friends are around. As I already wrote a few sentences above, look out for limiting beliefs that stop you. IMO is this your biggest problem.

Good questions. I honestly had to think about this for a few days. Not worried about looking like a player, most of my friends seem to either think that I am better with girls or that I should be better with girls than I am. Plenty of them have seen me talking to (and flopping with) some hottie to the point where mentally sometimes I'm like "well here we go again." Usually gets the occasionally gentle ribbing but nothing serious.

I don't really wanna get overly long and emo with my answer here, and these were all good responses that I'll be thinking about or looking to incorporate in some way. Two situations in particular struck me this weekend:

- Playing pickup ultimate frisbee at the park (yes, it's a sport), a girl asked me to join one of her league teams. I've been going to this pickup game for a few months now and I played in college and am one of the better players there and it seems the guys there like me playing there, but it struck me at that point that I hadn't really asked for so much as contact information from anyone there before.
- Was on a friend's music video set, hanging out and filling in for various crowd shots. It's a (mostly) girl band, and there's a few I'd like to get to know better, plus being an aspiring musician myself there's plenty of other people bumbling around that I should probably get to know too. And I'm hanging around and chatting with everyone cool, but don't really connect with anyone (that I don't know already) more than that. And this is about as safe an environment as it gets, given everyone's already connected in some way.

I get the feeling that I'm generally likable, or else people wouldn't keep inviting me out to shit, but I have trouble letting anyone in much closer than that. Doing things like getting numbers, or inviting people out to things, or escalating sexually. I don't have a particularly hard time simply walking up to and talking with people, meeting people is easy... going further is hard.

[CharlesB]

Edmond Dantès Wrote:It seems to be so that you worry a lot about what other people (especially your friends) are thinking of you as you approach women you like.
Ask yourself this question "Why am I so concerned about this?" Are you afraid of loosing a reputation or value? Are you afraid of being seen as a player? How do you think would your friends react when they see you talking to a hottie you're interested in? Why do you think this way about how they would react? Is it a realistic scenario that they would react the way you think they would react?

It could be so that a lot of limiting beliefs block you. The questions above could help you identifying them...

And honestly all guys who are going out want to a) have fun and
b) get to know girls

So there is nothing wrong about approaching girls when you're friends are around. As I already wrote a few sentences above, look out for limiting beliefs that stop you. IMO is this your biggest problem.

I think you are very well informed on this subject.If only I could fight these limiting beliefs.It reminds me when I wanted to stop smoking.It was only until I started questioning(credits to allen car for that) my desire to smoke,that I stop feeling this urge.The same maybe could apply to AA,which is not so easy for me to overcome but thanks to internet and social circle I can still get along(meeting women).Along with desensibilisation ,constantly questioning these beliefs,could offer an accurate solution to AA.

[Edmond Dantès]

Didn't expect that much good feedback. Thanks a lot, guys. I will post another post about limiting beliefs soon. But I have to get sober first. Pretty drunk right now, just got home from a party

And never forget that we're in this together.

[Chaos]

I'm not able to always pull this out but for me, anxeity boils down to a single feeling: fear. Fear of rejection, fear of what my friends will think, fear of what HER friends might think, fer of being ashamed... There's always one common sensation...

What I do is take a moment (like 5 to 10 seconds), think "ok, I'm afraid and nervous", and then do it anyway. If U take more than 10 seconds I usually don't do it, but by recognizing the fact and then imediately acting I'm able to overcome it.

[Leo]

Chaos Wrote:I'm not able to always pull this out but for me, anxeity boils down to a single feeling: fear. Fear of rejection, fear of what my friends will think, fear of what HER friends might think, fer of being ashamed... There's always one common sensation...

What I do is take a moment (like 5 to 10 seconds), think "ok, I'm afraid and nervous", and then do it anyway. If U take more than 10 seconds I usually don't do it, but by recognizing the fact and then imediately acting I'm able to overcome it.

So, you don't stay present and therefore feel anxious. The Power of Now! That book it's fucking right!

[Chaos]

It's almost impossible to "be present" and "outside your head" at all times in all circumstances, and while the concept is interesting, by itself is useless since just knowing the concept does not magically produce it in my head, so acknowledging it and acting anyway is, for me, an effective and practical way to overcome anxiety.

[Edmond Dantès]

Chaos is doing the right thing. There are fears that you can't completely eliminate. Approach Anxiety is in my opinion one of them. You can numb the fear down by approaching often and regulary, but it never goes completely away...

@Chaos: You just reminded me of the book "Feel the fear and do it anyway."

http://www.amazon.com/Feel-Fear-Anyway-S...0449902927

Give it a try, if you're interested

Another interesting approach to face your fears is that you concentrate on feeling grateful. I did that methode as I jumped from a 10 metre tower in my local baths when I was still afraid of heights. The trick about this method is that you can't feel afraid, when you feel grateful, because you can just feel one emotion at a time

[Chaos]

Edmond Dantès Wrote:@Chaos: You just reminded me of the book "Feel the fear and do it anyway."

http://www.amazon.com/Feel-Fear-Anyway-S...0449902927

Shit!! Someone stole my idea!!!

I'll try to find it in ePub or something since I hardly read anything in paper anymore. Thx.

[Edmond Dantès]

I've just read the summary of the book, which I can send you, if you're interested.

[Leo]

Chaos Wrote:It's almost impossible to "be present" and "outside your head" at all times in all circumstances, and while the concept is interesting, by itself is useless since just knowing the concept does not magically produce it in my head, so acknowledging it and acting anyway is, for me, an effective and practical way to overcome anxiety.

I understand what you are trying to say and of course you have to push the envelope and just do it. But there are methods that allow you to be out of your head and more present, like deep breathing. Nobody knows you are doing it and you can do it all the time. In a nut shell when you are anxious you have a negative predisposition to what's going to happen in the future. As you can clearly see in your former post. Sometimes the anxiety can be paralyzing so you need more than just doing it. I have some married friends that know I'm a PUA and they basically told me that they got married because they couldn't overcome their anxiety related to women, kinda like I get married with the woman that paid attention to me. It's the same if you are interacted with a girl with trust issues, she's so anxious that she can't relax and just do it. There are different levels of anxiety, for example I've noticed that even though I've improved a lot as a PUA I'm still avoiding to hit on girls that I really like because of the level of anxiety I have. Don't get me wrong, where I am right now it's a very good place, I used to be the biggest AFC on the planet, but IMHO you can't combat anxiety JUST doing it, of course it's part of the process but there's an intelectual part as well, what kind of thoughts (like the thoughts that you mentioned before) produce anxiety (negative predisposition to what's gonna happen).