It's Pissing Me Off!! - How Advice is Being Given on This Forum

[playmaker001]

I was reluctant to make any posts or threads here for a while because I used to make at ton on the old Practical Pickup forum, and yet, had no idea what the hell I was talking about. Now, besides Mark, Jon(who rarely posts anymore but knows his stuff) and probably Baller08, I feel I am one of the most qualified people here to give advice. My lay count is in the mid- twenties within a short time, I have a solid social circle, and I'm happy and proud of myself at this point in my life. Not bragging, it's just the facts.

Here's my beef with the way advice is being given on this forum and I strongly suggest people go and read Mark's article on how to give advice here:

1. In a lot of threads where there are tons of posts, a lot of arguing, and a lack of solid advice, it's just the blind leading the blind. Don't offer advice if you don't know what you're talking about or lack experience. And if you insist on giving advice anyways, let the other people know you are not experienced by stating it in your post.

2. People aren't looking at the situation from the perspective of the person asking for advice. For example, stop attacking Mace just because he doesn't agree 100% with your theories and doesn't worship the ground Mark walks on. Everyone here is flawed and no one has it all figured out, including Mark. Instead, try to relate to people like Mace, see where he's coming from and go from there. JESUS, no wonder some of you guys can't connect with women, you can't even connect with each other.

3.Stop speaking for everyone in the forum. Follow the old saying, "Speak for YOURSELF". For example, when Tim tries to "rally the troops" by speaking for everybody in general, saying things like "we're not buying it" and all that bullshit. Like Baller08 said, some of us are at different stages then others. Lets be more humble, try to relate to each other, speak for ourselves, and offer the best advice we know how.

4. Some people aren't genuinely looking for advice. I'm seeing more and more cases of people looking to argue, yet those were the same people initially asking for advice. If you want to argue or debate something, make sure it is CLEAR in your thread that's what you want to do. That way people don't feel like it came out of left field and they can either debate with you, or ignore your post all together.

On a side note, there's been a lot of negativity lately here. I personally would love to hear about more SUCCESS stories from you guys when it comes to women. Who cares if some people may see it as bragging, tell people success stories to your heart's desire. People here who truly want you to succeed will be glad to hear them.

That is all.

[Tim]

Dude, you're pretty much totally right. I did speak for too many people when telling Mace that we're not interested in his perspective. Honestly though, I don't want these forums to be somewhere PUA types come in and debate whether PUA works with us. The 99% of society doesn't think so and has no interest in being persuaded otherwise. That's where I'm at these days, and I hope that most people on here feel the same.

Also, I think there's a lot more positivity in the rest of the forums that you're not acknowledging. People asking good questions about how they can improve their lives, talking about their insecurities, etc.

Otherwise, you're totally right. I think I'll take a break from posting for a bit. Thanks for giving me that perspective.

[Mark]

Thanks for posting this. You're right. I acknowledge that guys like Mace are coming from a legitimate place. I just have no interest in having this board turn into a board of PU-based content and advice. It's as much for business reasons as it is for personal reasons.

[Guyintheback]

@playmaker

Would you be willing to share your success story? I'm asking cause I'm curious how you got to where you are now.

[Chaos]

(04-15-2012 09:34 PM)playmaker001 Wrote:  1. In a lot of threads where there are tons of posts, a lot of arguing, and a lack of solid advice, it's just the blind leading the blind. Don't offer advice if you don't know what you're talking about or lack experience. And if you insist on giving advice anyways, let the other people know you are not experienced by stating it in your post.

First of all I LOVE arguing, I love to consider different points of view and a good old debate about whatever (you just have to see the way I'm answering to this topic)... And I don't want that gone, is insightful for everyone. And yeah, I agree about the lack of experience, still that easier said than done... Mostly because sometimes I know when I'm not qualified to give advice and I refrain for so or state clearly it isn't my biggest point, but sometimes I think I have and the conversation turns to a direction that I hadn't considered, which allows me to realize I don't know so much or things I was doing wrong (that's why I like arguing, and of course sometimes I'm just completely and undeniably right )...

In addition I don't want this forum to become three or four "gurus" like Mark, Baller or Jon to drop, state the word of god and have the rest of the bunch be silent because their advice may not be good enough.

Quote:2. People aren't looking at the situation from the perspective of the person asking for advice. For example, stop attacking Mace just because he doesn't agree 100% with your theories and doesn't worship the ground Mark walks on. Everyone here is flawed and no one has it all figured out, including Mark. Instead, try to relate to people like Mace, see where he's coming from and go from there. JESUS, no wonder some of you guys can't connect with women, you can't even connect with each other.

You're right. Still I think I have the right to attack Mace's theories or tactics the way I like if I disagree with them... I agree those discussions might get out of hand and result in personal attacks, but I don't think that's a "trend" in this forum but isolated incidents.

Quote:4. Some people aren't genuinely looking for advice. I'm seeing more and more cases of people looking to argue, yet those were the same people initially asking for advice.

That's not how things usually work. I've almost never been asked for advice and had it just taken. In fact, for me, advice evolves throughout the conversation. Question - advice -refinement/arguing - more advice and so on. In fact whenever I give (or when I'm given) advice the most usual phrase to arise just afterwards is "yes, but..."

So that's my take. I love the arguing part... And in all honesty, for me, that's what the forum is all about, sharing and arguing... even if you're asking for advice...

[SeXyBaCk]

What's wrong then with a bit of good old debate here and there? That is how opinion are shaped, shifted and knowledge is exchanged, compounded and developed after all. I like myself a decent debate.

Let's be frank here for a minute... every other week there's some new theory on attraction backed up by psychology articles on the internet, staking a claim that said theory is scientifically proven and therefore better than what the other guy came up with, him on that other site. It just so happens that it's academic practice to test and re-test theories. I don't want to make this into a huge winded post, but in my opinion seduction is far from being science. And in the realm of pseudoscience (where no conclusive proof exists), can anyone truely be surprised it a debate mostly results in a shouting match... or more often a cross website bad-mouthing exchange? Therefore, the way I see it, it's in the nature of the beast that threads like the one mentioned in OP will keep popping up and will continue to generate a stir.

I feel that that same mentality of "I'm more right than you" is then carried over into the advice columns. This concept of there being one piece of solid advice while the rest is just obscuring is foreign to me. You ask a large audience you will be presented with a number of options, more than one being viable.

What strikes me is that a lot of men who turn to seduction (for help) find it really hard to make up their mind. So there has to be one guy, the guru guy with a silly hat on, who knows all, he can give advice, and everyone else just needs to shut up, because if not, it's just all too confusing. Deciding for myself what I'm going to do about this particular woman, even though the options have been laid out for me black on white by my peers, it's just too darn hard isn't it. There's this desciple and scholar ring to the whole community.

That's the seduction scene to me in a nutshell, weak men trying to tackle and argue a basic emotional process (finding a woman to mate and share your life with) by applying cognitive (which are claimed to be academic) skills ("i better spin her around now, or better yet, tell how I saved a granny from choking on a meatball"). What was that about the blind leading the blind? Anyway, I'm starting to sound like I'm on a rant.

I don't mind Tim speaking for me... if I disagree, I speak up. Again, disagreements are productive in my understanding, as long as they are well tempered. I consider that part of 'connecting' too. I don't think you should take a break from posting either Tim.

As for Mace's thread, I think he was posting a success story on how effective he was with his smartphone, he masked though by asking for advice, which he duly got.

Edit: Chaos basically beat me to spelling this all out. We're all trying to self improve here... so I think we should all share our experiences, qualified or unqualified, positive or negative.

[playmaker001]

@ Chaos and Sexyback: Ok, let me sort things out. I never said there should be no debating, go look at #4 on my initial post. I quite enjoy debates as well. I'm still on the debate team at school. To me it was more of a problem of HOW you debate and give advice. Remember, we're all brothers here. Not to mention we're on a forum that promotes honest communication and connections. So keep in mind where others are coming from, that's all. (By the way, shout out to Mark's new article "The Ipanema Boardwalk". It's a wonderful piece on seeing things from the point of view of others, check it out!)

Which leads me to my next point. Since this is a forum that promotes honest communication, be straight up when you don't know nor have the experience to give advice on a particular subject. If you still want to debate properly then by all means go ahead. But, state it in your post that you're probably not a credible source. I've seen it happen on one too many forums. Bob asks for advice, people on the forum who don't have experience and even virgins yap away. Giving advice on things like seduction when they've never seduced a woman in their life. Bob asking gets confused, the good advice gets lost somewhere in the thread, or worse, Bob ends up following the bad advice given by the inexperienced know-it-alls. Personally, I don't want to hear what you have to say if you haven't put in the time "infield", plain and simple.

And SeXyBack, YOU may be ok with Tim speaking for you. However there are about 6,000 registered members on this forum, plus the guests who just stop by to read threads. They may start to get the wrong idea, or worse, not post themselves because they're afraid to have any sort of opposing opinion. So speak for yourselves. And yes, I would love for Tim to keep posting though unless he really needs a break because of personal reasons.

@Guyintheback: I'm an analytical guy and started in the "seduction community" so luckily I'm able to calculate how I got to where I am now. Honestly, I gained success so fast because I became high status and achieved an attractive lifestyle. How did I go about it? I'll probably write a thread about it pretty soon.

[The Notorious PhD]

(04-16-2012 05:43 PM)playmaker001 Wrote:  @Guyintheback: I'm an analytical guy and started in the "seduction community" so luckily I'm able to calculate how I got to where I am now. Honestly, I gained success so fast because I became high status and achieved an attractive lifestyle. How did I go about it? I'll probably write a thread about it pretty soon.

Please do! I'm also extremely interested in how people get good at this.

Come to think of it: Baller08, Jon, SexyBack etc. could y'all share a retrospective on how you got to where you guys are?

[Jon]

@ playmaker

Good post. the solution now is - give more advice (which I should do as well)! Also, thanks for the shout out. I've been a bit busy lately so not posting as much. I do find it astonishing that I have now been referred to as a guru.

I also agree with the point about not giving advice if you don't have the experience. I don't think it's a general "guys with no game should give no advice" but also don't give advice about areas where you no nothing. If somebody has no success with same night pulls, but great success on dates, they should give advice about dates, but not same night pulls. I don't usually give online dating advice because I don't do it very often and I am not particularly good at it.

The caveat is that some shit is just common sense. For instance, I remember seeing a dude on another forum posting about his online profile, and in all his photos he's pointing a gun. Again, not great at online profiles but I am comfortable saying "you look like a serial killer in your photos, thats why you are not getting replies."

Arguments are good, but I think people should realize that when it comes to meeting women, there's a lot of ways to go about it. I like bars and clubs way more than meeting women on the street during the day, but that doesn't mean "day game sucks" it's just a preference. I have no interest in getting into an argument about meeting women during the day vs during the night.

@ Notorious, I'll definitely do that at some point.

[playmaker001]

Haha Jon, great to hear from you man! You and Mark helped me the most on this forum by far, and I never got to thank you guys, so thanks.

PS. I'm probably moving to New York for law school in two years so who knows, we might run into each other. Looking forward to you sharing how you got to where you are now. Also, try to post a success story on the "Success Stories Thread" sometime if you can, that'd be awesome.

[Paul]

Well now it seems this thread is an argument about arguing.

[Halo Effect]

(04-16-2012 11:12 PM)Paul Wrote:  Well now it seems this thread is an argument about arguing.

I disagree!

[Jon]

(04-16-2012 10:20 PM)playmaker001 Wrote:  Haha Jon, great to hear from you man! You and Mark helped me the most on this forum by far, and I never got to thank you guys, so thanks.

You're welcome, and I appreciate the compliment

Quote:PS. I'm probably moving to New York for law school in two years so who knows, we might run into each other.

As somebody who went to law school in NY, I highly recommend that. If you need any suggestions on that front, let me know.

Quote:Also, try to post a success story on the "Success Stories Thread" sometime if you can, that'd be awesome.

I should do that at some point. I have had a hard time thinking of anything interesting to say in a field report. (I did make out with a lesbian a couple of weeks back, to the visible shock of her friends).

[Matty]

(04-16-2012 01:01 PM)SeXyBaCk Wrote:  What's wrong then with a bit of good old debate here and there? That is how opinion are shaped, shifted and knowledge is exchanged, compounded and developed after all. I like myself a decent debate.

Let's be frank here for a minute... every other week there's some new theory on attraction backed up by psychology articles on the internet, staking a claim that said theory is scientifically proven and therefore better than what the other guy came up with, him on that other site. It just so happens that it's academic practice to test and re-test theories. I don't want to make this into a huge winded post, but in my opinion seduction is far from being science. And in the realm of pseudoscience (where no conclusive proof exists), can anyone truely be surprised it a debate mostly results in a shouting match... or more often a cross website bad-mouthing exchange? Therefore, the way I see it, it's in the nature of the beast that threads like the one mentioned in OP will keep popping up and will continue to generate a stir.

I feel that that same mentality of "I'm more right than you" is then carried over into the advice columns. This concept of there being one piece of solid advice while the rest is just obscuring is foreign to me. You ask a large audience you will be presented with a number of options, more than one being viable.

What strikes me is that a lot of men who turn to seduction (for help) find it really hard to make up their mind. So there has to be one guy, the guru guy with a silly hat on, who knows all, he can give advice, and everyone else just needs to shut up, because if not, it's just all too confusing. Deciding for myself what I'm going to do about this particular woman, even though the options have been laid out for me black on white by my peers, it's just too darn hard isn't it. There's this desciple and scholar ring to the whole community.

That's the seduction scene to me in a nutshell, weak men trying to tackle and argue a basic emotional process (finding a woman to mate and share your life with) by applying cognitive (which are claimed to be academic) skills ("i better spin her around now, or better yet, tell how I saved a granny from choking on a meatball"). What was that about the blind leading the blind? Anyway, I'm starting to sound like I'm on a rant.

I don't mind Tim speaking for me... if I disagree, I speak up. Again, disagreements are productive in my understanding, as long as they are well tempered. I consider that part of 'connecting' too. I don't think you should take a break from posting either Tim.

As for Mace's thread, I think he was posting a success story on how effective he was with his smartphone, he masked though by asking for advice, which he duly got.

Edit: Chaos basically beat me to spelling this all out. We're all trying to self improve here... so I think we should all share our experiences, qualified or unqualified, positive or negative.

That's basically it in a nutshell. We're not talking about engineering here, we're talking about human emotions. I also think the idea of whose qualified is somewhat arbitrary. Having a high lay count does not necessarily[/i] qualify you. It's like when Brian used to post on here using his super awesome black roommate with 400 lays as a badge of authority. I'm sure Iceberg Slims banged a lot of woman in his life, would I turn to him for advice on how to connect with woman? Probably not. So whose more qualified in connecting with woman, the guy who has banged hundreds of emotionally damaged woman, or the guy who's been happily married for 10 years. Part of the hostility your seeing as well is the fact that a lot of us are PUA refugees.

[Jon]

Matty, while having success does not necessarily qualify you, having success is a bare minimum to knowing what you are talking about. I don't think its just about a high lay count. A guy who has been successfully married for 10 years to the first woman he had sex with isn't qualified in talking about one night stands, probably not all that qualified in giving advice on first dates (i mean he had one really productive one, but that's it), but sure, if you want advice on how to handle long term relationship issues, talk to that guy. It's based on the subject. In particular, if somebody is talking about how to avoid flakes, i would hope that person is actually able to get girls to go out on dates with him.

[Matty]

(04-17-2012 02:46 AM)Jon Wrote:  Matty, while having success does not necessarily qualify you, having success is a bare minimum to knowing what you are talking about. I don't think its just about a high lay count. A guy who has been successfully married for 10 years to the first woman he had sex with isn't qualified in talking about one night stands, probably not all that qualified in giving advice on first dates (i mean he had one really productive one, but that's it), but sure, if you want advice on how to handle long term relationship issues, talk to that guy. It's based on the subject. In particular, if somebody is talking about how to avoid flakes, i would hope that person is actually able to get girls to go out on dates with him.

Yeah, and I get that part of it. That was why I phrased it "having a high lay count doesn't qualify you" not "success doesn't qualify you". I just don't think your lay count should be thought of as the be all end all of success with woman. A lot of the friends I grew up with who had the best skills with woman only slept with a few a year. It wasn't that they couldnt go out and rack up a body count, they simply didn't want to. Other than that, I actually thought this was a pretty well written post. And I'll admit I never actually read the flakes post being referred to, this was just a general observation that people should remember.

[Halo Effect]

I agree that guys shouldn't give advice on subjects they are inexperienced or bad at. That means some members will have to give less advice and listen more, and that seems fine to me.

If you catch me giving advice about how to overcome approach anxiety, kick me in the balls. Even though I know how to do it theoretically, I still have it! I also suck at flirting IMO. I am good at creating an emotional connection, escalating and dating girls for longer times. I have a few flakes and a high "retention rate". Also pretty good at sex, dirty talk, sexting.