Is this feeling normal?

[Chaos]

As you might know I've been seeing a girl for two or three months. I had "the chat" with her and we agreed we're casual and just friends and I'm really satisfied with that.

For the last year I noticed a really good improvement over my game, or more specifically, over the way I handle rejection and the way I handle women in general. I've grown a little more confident and I'm not as needy as I used to be, nor do I cling to one specific women.

But (there's always a but)... there's this girl from work. I've had some success and fails with hot chicks and I usually just next the girl and move on without too much effort. I had a fling with her a couple of months ago, just really casual 2 dates leading to sex and nothing more.

Originally I just moved on and moved to the next girl and for a time everything was fine. As we worked together we kept flirting in quite obvious ways but she had a new boyfriend and I was happy keeping my distances and just keeping the flirting (which has always been reciprocal)... if something was to come up in the future I was open to it if not, then that was ok too.

Recently though I made the error of casually commenting a friend of mine (also from work) knew we've had a thing and she became completely mad... not irrational, but really mad at me for telling. What frightens me is the fact it affected me much more than I had anticipated. I'm not even considering anything with her at the moment, but it's kind of hit me hard to be aware of how much effect she has on me.

She also has the ability to bring back my old "nice guy" (so during this coming and going I confessed I was a little more affected that I let her know when things didn't go anywhere... I had like a bad week after that) and that kinds of frightens me.

Question is... is this feeling normal? Is this something that you get from time to time with some women? And if it is, is that the kind of women, the women that are able to make me feel this way the ones that I should actually pursue?

If the question to the last answer is yes... I'm a little confused. I feel completely vulnerable in this position (as in it's really easy to get hurt, emotionally), and I also feel like a revert to a more needy state. Whereas with other women I don't really give a fuck, with this specific girl I feel more exposed.

Let me give an example... I apologized for what happened as I felt she had the right to be mad, at least partially, and I understood why she was angry. She kept being angry and giving me cold looks and avoiding me and all that stuff. I then asked her if she was still angry and then apologized AGAIN and then a third time... this is something I wouldn't have done for any other women. I would have just moved on ... and we're talking about a girl I'm not even planing to date and to which I honestly think I won't probably hook up again. This is not in the hopes of she forgiving me and then realizing she's madly in love with me (I'm not even sure I would want that)... just the general feeling of having her being mad at me makes me uncomfortable.

A little feedback please?

Edit: The root issue, as I feel it, is the fact that she's able to touch me emotionally at a level that resembles the feelings I had when I was starting with "game". It's not so much me being needy (I feel less in control and more needy than usual but not needy as I used to be)... externally at least I don't act (too) needy, but internally it frightens me because I'm more uncertain than usual... I mean it not about the end result (which I'm never certain of, just play my cards and see what comes out) but about the "don't care, won't hurt me much" that I'm usually certain of.

[Starsailor~]

I've thought a lot about the same question - I still get that feeling around some girls and end up feeling stifled around them, as though I can't quite express my real self.

I've also wondered whether these are the girls I should be going for - it makes sense in a way that the ones who make you feel that way are the ones you would be happier about hooking up with.

I actually think that they are usually NOT the ones you should be hooking up with, because in my experience that feeling is caused by neediness, and this neediness probably isn't the best way to start a relationship.

I've realised that with some girls I don't have that feeling at the start but over time as we get to know each other more deeply, it can develop - except this time it's based on reality and not just an idealistic perception of her.

I'm very interested to hear other ideas about this...

[Jon]

I think one thing you have to realize is that there is sometimes nothing you can do about your feelings. You feel bad, and you did kind of fuck up, so that makes sense. So you apologized. She is going to be mad for as long as she is going to be mad for, which is her business, but at this point, you apologized, nothing else to do. If she is being inappropriate at work in terms of the dirty looks etc., then you should tell her to knock it off, since she doesn't have to like you but you do have to work together, and if she keeps it up everybody at the office is going to know something is up, not just your one friend who you swore to secrecy. This is only something worth saying if its getting out of hand. Otherwise just let her cool off.

Also, sometimes it's worth bearing in mind that women will want to pick a fight with an ex when they are in a new relationship. I dated a girl for three months, we broke up, stayed friendly. she started dating a new guy and then within a week I did some minor dickish thing and she wigged out at me and dropped contact. Literally the day they broke up she messaged me and apologized, said in retrospect she did it b/c her current boyfriend was jealous and it was just easier for her to have some excuse to drop contact. Not mature, but it's what happens, and at least she could own up to it.

In terms of - are these the girls you want to go after? It's complicated, because on the one hand there is such a thing as a girl who just knows how to create drama. Those girls will make you feel this way and it's not good. I think feeling this way about a girl should be something that happens as a result of a relationship. Take things slow, don't let yourself get carried away, but once you guys get serious, expect and be happy that she can really get to you.

[Chaos]

I guess kind of what makes me feel a little edgy is the fact that I naively thought I wasn't vulnerable to this kind of situation anymore.

[Jon]

You always are. Everybody always is. It's just a matter of getting better at handling it. I seriously don't think there is a guy alive who doesn't sometimes let women get under his skin. What it is is different with different guys, but there's always something.

[baller08]

Chaos -

Several things here but it's all good news. Let's start with the easy one first.

Apologizing

We tell super nice guys to never apologize because they're ashamed of everything and do it for no reason. But when you get to having normal relationships with women, appropriately apologizing is part of life. Women should apologize to you too if they've done something wrong (and they do a lot of things wrong in relationships...a lot...very often..lol!).

The key is to just do it once but do it genuinely. Once you do it more than once, then it becomes a little weak and that's part of what you're feeling.

Be sincere, but do it once and don't let a woman's emotional reaction get to you. It'll be even harder once you get into a serious long term relationship. But you've got to swallow the discomfort and be the rock in the storm. Let the tide of emotions finish and she'll be fine.

Privacy

I'm very private with my relationships with women. We can get into all the social reputation reasons and how that is important to women, but for me it's simple....I don't kiss and tell. It's an attitude that has always served me very well.

Ok, so onto the deeper stuff....

Feelings

Nice guy brain washing goes deep...really deep. It's no different than being heavily into religion or being really poor. Those are all very psychologically damaging and even when you're "de-brain washed" you can still have some of those automatic mental triggers.

Don't fear it. Acknowledge it but also recognize that you now have the tools to deal with it. You can't help how you feel, but you can help how you act.

I have a friend who came to this country when he was very young and obviously very poor. He went on to be a very successful lawyer, but he still behaves in ways of a very poor person. During pot lucks he'll take all the food home. He'll take garbage from his house to the company dumpster. He'll leave the house very cold and just wear more layers of clothing.

Now, he can't help how he feels, but he can certainly stop taking food from company pot lucks!

Even very famous and rich actors think they're just one year away from never working again.

Anytime you've had to struggle very hard to overcome something and mentally push past fears, you'll always have some level of that struggle no matter how far you get.

But the great news is, so long as you're asking yourself these questions, you'll be fine. That weak guy no longer exists. And as you gain more successful relationships, the ghost of him will show up less and less.

Women Getting Under Your Skin

I would be very sad if a woman can't ever get under my skin. That would mean I don't have the ability to ever feel love. It goes hand in hand.

That being said, this woman getting under your skin is simply her "negging" you. She's making you qualify yourself through her disapproval of your actions.

But of course this is just a human thing....we as normal people generally don't like to make people mad at us, especially if we did something we know wasn't polite.

Don't read too much into it. It's impossible to never let anyone ever get to you. As you move forward and gain more experience, you'll get better and better at managing these events.

You're at such a great place in your life, Chaos. You're at the point where just getting women in bed is not the end all be all anymore. You're asking all the right questions and you're about to move to the next stage in your development where you move from being just an attractive guy to a man who can change a woman's life forever for the better. You're learning how to lead a woman's life for real...not just from Bar A to Bar B to Chaos' awesome disco themed pad.