I'm too good for them

[rokstrpunk101]

Here's a story that I have only recently started to realize is really hurting me. I feel like a lot of guys that learn about pick up may have had this same story. It's kind of like Mark's story in Models where he was giving himself excuses not to talk to a girl b/c he had thoughts of "ive been w/ girl way hotter than her, shes not good enough for me."

After studying this stuff for a while and just success/self-improvement books I truly believe that I am the prize and that I'm a high value guy, etc. I can truly feel it deep down that I love myself and nothing anyone says can change that. On top of that I'm beginning to become more successful in all the other areas of my life too.
BUT
I still have yet to reach the kind of success that I truly want, and as a result I am starting to feel a little bit resentful towards girls and the "infinite universe".

I improve myself and work on myself, then I present myself and align myself w/ women, but I don't end up getting what I want so I move on, but then I get frustrated that I'm putting so much effort into bettering myself and becoming a truly attractive guy, and yet I am not getting the results I want.

Yes yes I know "Don't be outcome dependent". I'm not. I go into each interaction with the end goal in mind (casual sex) but never place too much importance on each individual interaction. I never am outcome dependent regarding a single interaction, but I do want the "vision" of my life to happen, which is an abundance of hot girls.

I think the most frustrating part is that a) I'm in college, and in general guys in college are immature and after bettering myself I know I should be getting better results than the majority of them, and b) almost every new girl I meet shows attraction in me right away as we make eye contact, but whenever I start interacting w/ them something goes wrong...which meaannss the issue is on me (it always is) and that's fucking frustrating after I've already spent years working on myself and continue to do so diligently each and every day.

I don't truly believe I'm "better" than them, or "too good for them" but since I have so many aspects about me that make me an attractive guy I feel that they should be working hard for me, and I shouldn't have to put in as much effort b/c I've already put so much effort into myself.

ugghh. I know success is coming but it's pretty fucking frustrating when youve been at it for a while and it's still not here

I feel like there's a lot of people that can relate to some of this. If anybody had this problem I'd really appreciate some input.

Cheers,
Drew

[The Notorious PhD]

What's your specific issue?

If you're frustrated that success isn't coming quickly, there's no cure for that. Getting good takes time. This is as it should be. Otherwise everyone would be a mad pimp.

You also say that you're outcome independent. But it doesn't seem that way when I read your post. For example, you should want to better yourself so that you are proud of who you are. Not so that some chick will be impressed.

And it's not as easy as just saying it - you must viscerally, unconditionally, incontrovertibly believe it. Ask yourself: would you want to improve yourself even if every girl on earth vanished today?

That's "outcome independence".

As to why your interactions sour after an initially positive reaction. There could be myriad reasons and the only way to diagnose is to summarize, say, ten or fifteen bad interactions (not just one) so folks here can understand the pattern of your screw-ups and give you advice.

One reason might be that you're coming-off as arrogant. Please believe I'm not taking a character pot-shot. But look at the title of your post, or the point you make in (a)...I won't disagree that college has immature guys, and that paradoxically, some of them are quite good with women.

But what you said doesn't bespeak a whole lot of compassion. And in the end, that's the difference between arrogance and confidence. It's powerful thing.

Try this: the next time you're talking to anyone (guy or girl), figure out one way in which the world is better-off for having this person exist. Then appreciate them for it.

[rokstrpunk101]

My specific issue is that I'm not getting the girls to go back w/ me so I can fuck them.

And I'm not frustrated that success isn't coming quickly b/c I too believe in working hard for it, and that it takes time and discipline. And I agree that it should be this way b/c it does separate those who are willing from those who are not.

And I definitely don't care about impressing a woman. I do improve myself because I want to become the best me I possibly can and live the life that I want to live. But in that vision of the ultimate life that I want to live is having an abundance of women. If I'm not seeing progress towards that life vision then I'm going to get frustrated. (btw- I'm saying that I'm frustrated, but I'm definite not getting or putting myself down about it, I'm still fucking resolved as ever to keep at it, b/c eventually I know that my vision is inevitable).

Well I don't ever notice myself behaving in an outcome dependent manner, and I'm pretty sure I'd be aware if I was as I do a lot of journaling, meditation, and introspection.
But on your point "would you want to improve yourself even if every girl on the earth vanished today?" I'd have to say fuck no lol. I actually wouldn't want to be a live, given that there wasn't a suitable replacement for women in the biological, natural order of things-sense. Why would I want to be alive and improve myself w/out having the opposite sex? We all know the majority of man's great deeds are due to their high sex drives. Just read Think & Grow Rich if you don't agree. I believe that by accomplishing things that I know will bring more women into my life is ultimately a selfish desire (in a good way) as it's not only bringing "things" that I want into my life and completing that part of my vision, it also brings in the "girls" part of my vision. Sooo why shouldn't my thoughts be "will accomplishing this bring more women into my life?".

But anyways...Yes I think you are right. I do think I am probably being too arrogant. I think this is the negative side-affect of learning a lot of stuff, or being highly intellectual. I'm starting to feel that I'm better than others b/c I (think) I know so much more than them, and that they're just wasting their life doing insignificant things with their lives.

But I know that deep down that's not who I am. I used to always be the kind of guy (and still am if I'm in the right mood) who gives love to everyone, but I think the recently long lack of success has made me a little resentful, which in turns fuels my arrogance, which makes my interactions go sour, which in turn makes me resentful, ad inf.

I think deep down part of me is sort of mad at other people who on a surface level I view as immature, lazy and stupid b/c deep down I KNOW that they have so much more potential and can do great things with their lives, but they're just wasting it. And even when I personally try to help someone by trying to get them to believe in themselves, they nod in agreement, but subconsciously stay the same and that's frustrating too.

"Try this: the next time you're talking to anyone (guy or girl), figure out one way in which the world is better-off for having this person exist. Then appreciate them for it."
I like this though. I'll try this for a week or so and really ingrain it into my thoughts.

[The Notorious PhD]

(04-29-2012 05:20 PM)rokstrpunk101 Wrote:  My specific issue is that I'm not getting the girls to go back w/ me so I can fuck them.

Where are you meeting these girls? Classes? Social circle? Bars? Night-clubs? How are you trying to get them to come home with you? What do they say in response? Are you physically escalating? Are your logistics worked-out? Are you picking-up close to or far from your pad? Etc.

I have only dated girls through my social circle so that's all I can help with, if that's your primary way of meeting women. Others here can diagnose your problems with bars/night-clubs.

Quote: Sooo why shouldn't my thoughts be "will accomplishing this bring more women into my life?".

Why shouldn't these be your thoughts? Well, for one, what if all these things don't bring more women into your life? Will you thus conclude that your effort was wasted? That's akin to wanting to study physics, so that you win a Nobel Prize. Sure, something like that can be a goal, but making it your motivation is the fatal flaw. If only life operated on such simple, stark, cause-effect relationships...in reality, there are no guarantees. So you must love the process for itself. Or do something else.

Fortunately, though, everything you do to improve yourself will bring more women into your life. It's a matter of time. But what I'm trying to convey is the idea that you should do these things because they make you happy, because that's the only thing you can control.

For example, I train in Muay Thai quite religiously. Chicks are super-impressed when they watch me sparring. And sure, I get a kick (ha!) out of that. But I get much deeper satisfaction from noticing that I'm improving at the sport over time. Because I was always a clumsy kid and I never thought I'd be good at sports. But I'm working hard, and I'm getting better, and I'm proud of myself.
[/quote]

Quote:I think this is the negative side-affect of learning a lot of stuff, or being highly intellectual. I'm starting to feel that I'm better than others b/c I (think) I know so much more than them, and that they're just wasting their life doing insignificant things with their lives.
...
I think deep down part of me is sort of mad at other people who on a surface level I view as immature, lazy and stupid b/c deep down I KNOW that they have so much more potential and can do great things with their lives, but they're just wasting it.

What is significant? What is meaningful? Who decides these things? Sure, you and I, who attended prestigious colleges must believe academic pursuits are meaningful. Or are they? My day is spent writing-out esoteric proofs in mathematical game theory. Am I helping the world by developing theories that will inform public policy, or is it just mental masturbation committed to paper? Should I instead become the security guard who protects my building, and makes sure me and my work is safe, day-in and day-out? Is what Mark doing significant? Is it that he helps men cope with insecurities and improve themselves? Or is he just addressing first-world, so-called "dating problems"? Or let's take you. What does your knowing or reading a bunch of intellectual shit do for the rest of us? Is it that you use your knowledge to help me see the world in interesting and unique ways and enrich my life? Or do you instead just make me feel bad for not knowing as much as you?


You get my point. You have to learn to suspend judgement, to be compassionate, to recognize that your knowledge is incomplete, and that you can choose to view things either positively or negatively. "This is Water" by David Foster Wallace is a beautiful (and concrete) exposition of this idea. It profoundly affected my thinking. Read it.

[rokstrpunk101]

Wow man that was really good.

The truth is I do, in fact, love the process. I think in general I'm just in the "plateau" phase of the progression chart and naturally I'm going to be frustrated. But it's pushing past that and graduating to the next level that makes us better, so I'm just going to keep at it.

(04-29-2012 07:11 PM)The Notorious PhD Wrote:  What is significant? What is meaningful? Who decides these things? Sure, you and I, who attended prestigious colleges must believe academic pursuits are meaningful. Or are they? My day is spent writing-out esoteric proofs in mathematical game theory. Am I helping the world by developing theories that will inform public policy, or is it just mental masturbation committed to paper? Should I instead become the security guard who protects my building, and makes sure me and my work is safe, day-in and day-out? Is what Mark doing significant? Is it that he helps men cope with insecurities and improve themselves? Or is he just addressing first-world, so-called "dating problems"? Or let's take you. What does your knowing or reading a bunch of intellectual shit do for the rest of us? Is it that you use your knowledge to help me see the world in interesting and unique ways and enrich my life? Or do you instead just make me feel bad for not knowing as much as you?


You get my point. You have to learn to suspend judgement, to be compassionate, to recognize that your knowledge is incomplete, and that you can choose to view things either positively or negatively. "This is Water" by David Foster Wallace is a beautiful (and concrete) exposition of this idea. It profoundly affected my thinking. Read it.

I really like your point here man. Also, for me, I think the fact that I have a burning desire to be great and that I won't accept anything less I sometimes assume that everyone else has the same desire to the same extent, when obviously a lot of people are content to be great at stuff on a smaller scale, like being a great father, etc. and this assumption may be why I think they are wasting potential. I'm going to work on suspending judgement and realize that everyone has their own idea of what it means to realize their full potential and what is meaningful.

Thanks N PHD

[baller08]

I've seen a few of your posts. You're one of those "nice guys" who are simply angry. You have delusions of grandeur. I've seen more and more guys like you and that is because we've raised kids today to have this entitlement complex.

I got news for you, you haven't done anything in your life that would make you better than anyone else. Let me tell you why you're angry....you're angry because you see these "immature, dumb" guys get girls over and over again while you can't.

You know why girls aren't attracted to you? Because you have an unattractive personality. You're a snob without actually having DONE anything to be a snob about. All you've done was read about stuff, you haven't actually gone out and DONE anything to improve your mindset or ability to relate to women.

The moment a woman sits down with you for a 5 minute conversation, they pick up on your angry vibe.

If you want to change your course in life, stop thinking you're better than anyone else. Right now in your life you should be learning from everyone you meet. I assure you that everyone you meet right now you can learn from...just listen. Even if you met a guy who has done poorly in life, talk to him and find out his history because even learning what NOT TO DO is learning. In fact, its the most important method of learning.

If you continue along this path, then you will one day find a girlfriend but she will leave you and your anger will spill over like a broken dam. I've seen it many times before, I've personally worked with guys that have your exact attitude and without a doubt they always end up in that position.

And BTW here is an example of how you repel people:

Quote:...when obviously a lot of people are content to be great at stuff on a smaller scale, like being a great father, etc. and this assumption may be why I think they are wasting potential.

You sound like a fucking joke to most people. Being a great father is one of the greatest, hardest, most important things you can do in this world. One of the major reasons why PostMasculine is necessary, why this whole pick up industry got started, is due to the lack of father figures and strong fathers in this country. The fact that you think that is "wasting one's potential" will make people laugh at you behind your back.

The reason why you're so angry and have such an entitlement complex is because your own father didn't do his job to prepare you to excel in this world. So before you speak, make sure you understand what you're talking about, because if you come off even half as ridiculous in person as you do on this forum, it's easy to see why women will be repelled by you.

[Halo Effect]

baller,

You are being needlessly harsh. rokstrpunk (why don't people capitalize their names?) is being very open and honest here, while showing that he is pretty self-aware and willing to improve.

I agree with baller that arrogance and bitterness and anger are bad... Learn to appreciate people, even if they aren't "successful". Who decides what success is anyway? I'm still working on this myself too. I've argued with my parents all too often, blaming them for aiming low in life and being unambitious...... Bleh.

Quote:I think deep down part of me is sort of mad at other people who on a surface level I view as immature, lazy and stupid b/c deep down I KNOW that they have so much more potential and can do great things with their lives, but they're just wasting it. And even when I personally try to help someone by trying to get them to believe in themselves, they nod in agreement, but subconsciously stay the same and that's frustrating too.

Often when I notice my resenting a trait in another person, it's because I resent that trait in myself. Do you hate when you don't reach your own potential? Have you disliked this trait in yourself in the past?

Edit: Hm.. just realized, as I talked about a friend and my father said "You shouldn't judge that. You should let everyone have their own truth" that I judge a close friend for settling down with a girl he is not very fond of into a life he is not crazy about, because he just is not the guy to go outside of his comfort zone and challenge himself and be self-aware. I do not really respect him for that. Is that "wrong"? I think I'm in the process now of pushing myself out of my comfort zone and making myself believe that I can, in fact, become successful. So I lash out at people who directly or indirectly challenge my efforts...

[Chaos]

I too feel Baller is being a little too harsh... but then again my first impression while reading the thread was "nice guy" so I can't blame him... That's just an intuition, but given where the post is going Baller analysis feels right... I would say you just have to take a step forward and be more open about what you want...

Halo, I used to have that philosophy: "You should let everyone have their own truth". The hell with it... We're human, we have our own views and I can respect someone less for being like they are... That's part of who I am, I impose judgement over other actions... respect that!! ... All in good measure, but we all judge based on who we are and what we expect from others. You can still respect and love your friend, but you still disapprove or something he's doing... as long as it comes from a depth desire to help him or her, every judgement is fine by me.

[Jon]

(04-29-2012 03:16 PM)rokstrpunk101 Wrote:  I think the most frustrating part is that a) I'm in college, and in general guys in college are immature and after bettering myself I know I should be getting better results than the majority of them

You are probably not, in fact, mature in the way that matters in a relationship. When I was in college I was "mature" in the sense that I was serious about my career, I was intellectual, I was knowledgeable.

However, mature in a way that is attractive is not about that. Mature in an attractive sense is about being aware of and (relatively) in control of your own emotions, decisive, knowledgeable about what women want and need in a guy, comfortable with who you are, internally validated.

[SeXyBaCk]

Yeah I think you boys are being a bit rough on the kid.

Drew, you're fresh in uni... (trust me, many of us went/go through this) the world looks like your oyster, maybe you're buying into the whole elitist crap your tutors are feeding you right now (happens more so in elite british/US elite universities than anywhere else in the world/I've done both, I bought into it). Depending on what you're reading the rest of the world looks like a bunch of simpletons, sitting on the subway, hurrying into their offices to push paper. Well, sooner or later you'll be there too Drew. Give it 2-3 years at uni, your arrogance will dwindle, you'll be questioning your own productivity (which is what right now?) and you'll be itching to get out there and actually produce something. Unless you're the academic careerist of course, those guys just live in their elitist bubble all their life. So really... enjoy the arrogance/confidence while it lasts. Eventually you'll realise there's always someone smarter/better/more lucky which brings you back to earth. I'd tone it down with the ladies though. It's possible you're coming across as an arrogant prick.

It's good that you're confident, but I wouldn't put it right in a woman's face straight away.

[FirstAidKit]

Okay... I'm gonna be harsh to start and then nicer later - from the very very little I can read from your post, I'd be inclined to agree with baller.

Here are some things that I think:

1) You are probably not as smart as you think you are
2) You are probably not as mature as you think you are

These are kindof universal for everyone - humans are notorious for overestimating their abilities at something, or how good they are compared to other people. This goes double if you are still in uni and haven't really done anything besides learned from books - this wasn't clear in your post, so I'm going to give you benefit of the doubt here, but if you're treating your book learning as more maturing than having a freakin' kid, you are probably off base.

3) The demographic you are shooting for - that is, hot girls interested in casual sex - are probably not all that fussed about how smart and mature you are anyway. they are going to be interested in someone who is fun and great in bed. are you? be honest.

4) Being clever, when it comes to social interactions, is often really overrated by clever people - and this is speaking as clever person (graduated engineering from a top british university).

Studies have shown that even in a work situation, where you would think competence matters most, people would rather work with someone likable and bad than competent and mean. LINKY.

Basically, no one cares how smart you are if you're being a prick.

If you come across in person like you did in your post,I can see why the ladies are not going for it. There is really nothing more unattractive than someone acting like you should be grateful for their sexual attention - and when you really think you are better than all these people you are hitting on, I can guarantee that is really obvious to them.

Secondly, the nicer half of the post! First good news - you are getting initial attraction. These means you are initially attractive, this is a good thing. I would honestly recommend the classic "how to win friends and influence people" for good tips on relating and being nice - it's old but it does really transcend a lot of situations. I'd also recommend not hitting on people you think are 'beneath' you - they can tell, and you might have better results if you feel they are genuinely great girls. If you don't have results hitting on 'your level', then it's probably time to reassess how great you think you are...

[trader4life]

Whether Baller is harsh or not is irrelevant. The content of what he is saying is true. We all have our sense of self-value. Most guys are seldom centered in this area. Some are too down on themselves and think they do not deserve a great life. Other's are too arrogant and think the world owes them something. Not saying this is the case with the OP but being so young it would be hard for me to fathom that he has really "earned his standards". I think this is the case with many of us on this forum to varying degrees. rokstrpunk101 - so you are meeting girls it sounds like but not able to "take them home and fuck them".....care to share a bit more? Where are you meeting them and what are the interactions like? I hate this micro analyzing of what ends up being a pretty simple process most times but I think there may be somewhere you are getting stuck.

[baller08]

Those are excellent points, FAK...especially #3. I just read the article...useful article and very true. Thanks for the link.

[Jon]

(05-02-2012 09:26 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Those are excellent points, FAK...especially #3. I just read the article...useful article and very true. Thanks for the link.

Woah, you mean a lady gave good dating advice to a man?!

[baller08]

(05-02-2012 09:32 PM)Jon Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 09:26 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Those are excellent points, FAK...especially #3. I just read the article...useful article and very true. Thanks for the link.

Woah, you mean a lady gave good dating advice to a man?!

I have a jar full of poisonous spiders for you to stick your hand into. I know a guy who stuck his hand in once and didn't get bit.....so that means it should be ok for you to do it too, right? LOL!

[Jon]

(05-02-2012 09:45 PM)baller08 Wrote:  

(05-02-2012 09:32 PM)Jon Wrote:  Woah, you mean a lady gave good dating advice to a man?!

I have a jar full of poisonous spiders for you to stick your hand into. I know a guy who stuck his hand in once and didn't get bit.....so that means it should be ok for you to do it too, right? LOL!

I am not touching that analogy with a ten foot pole.

[baller08]

LOL! Touche.

[IdEngager]

If I had a time machine, the first thing I would do would be to go back and tell my college self he was a shithead and not as great as he thought he was. The second thing I would do is do the same to my high school self.