I can't keep girls invested in conversation

[Spikes]

So I'm still on level 3 of marks models level of improvement exercises. This is mainly because I can't keep a girl I just met talking to me for more than 5 - 7 mins max. I've been trying to figure it out. The best reason I could think about why this happens is because I guess I talk about generic topics like sports, who we know in common, where she from .. nothing exciting, I'll crack jokes but I still rarely touch or flirt. I tease but normally the punches don't hit. But after about 5 -7 she'll politely excuse herself and I'm like okay . I don't mean to be cocky but I know its not my looks or how I dress because I've been good about that for a while now. Do you guys have any tips to have a girl talking to me for more than a few minutes cuz I really need to pass level 3 lol.

[Jon]

1) you should be touching and flirting
2) open up on a personal level. Not huge revealing shit, but enough to bring her in.

[Chaos]

In addition, if you're reading models you're forgetting one really important thing that Mark remarks in the book. Polarizing ... You're keeping the conversation into general topics, and I'm assuming you're playing it safe even there... also sports isn't usually a very engaging topic of conversation for a girl.

Take this with a bit of salt since I get mixed results at conversations so I won't consider myself an expert, but taking the conversation into a deeper level has always helped me. Usually I go with "Cold read" ... answer, go deeper into the answer ... and then topics usually start to derive from the initial conversation... I think the trick is to let her talk about herself and then relate and find out more about it... that gives you plenty of opportunities to state your opinion and engage her into conversation... also, as the topic is about her, she's more willing to actually enjoy the topic (everybody loves to talk about themselves)

[CHB2]

To use PUA terminology, you gotta kino early and often. As Chaos mentioned, polarizing is important and one of the ways to do that is with touch. Obviously don't grab her ass when you just meet her, but touching on the arms, shoulder, even hand is fine. Doing that just sort of cements the interaction and pushes the issue so it will be clear whether she is interested or not.

Also, definitely try to branch away from generic conversation topics, and unless she is wearing a baseball hat or something try to avoid sports.

[Schmechti]

No touching in daygame.

[Jon]

Schmechti Wrote:No touching in daygame.

Whoops, yeah, for some reason I assumed we were talking about night game. this is true. Don't touch much or at all during the day.

[Spikes]

thanks guys for the advice! I'll try it again tonight and tell you how it goes. but yeah I am talking about night game.

[Reesays]

expand your base on knowledge perhaps friend

[Spikes]

Ha Ha well no change mostly because I couldn't think of any polarizing topics damn I guess this is the pain period?

[Spikes]

However I did touch for the first girl I talked to and I noticed she was feeling me a little bit more than the other girls lol

[Spikes]

It's strange. Sometimes at a party, girls will approach me (like last night) but as soon as I open my mouth . .. game. set. peace. lol

[crazyhorse]

sounds more like you're just nervous to me.

[Halo Effect]

If a girl has anything interesting inside her at all, you can talk for hours, easily. She can talk for hours. You just ask questions. This is more applicable to dates and quiet places, since you need to say less and be flirtier and more playful in loud clubs. But I can't believe this is not taught all over the pick up scene.

Here's what you do:

• Ask open questions. That's a question that can't be answered with a simple "yes" or "no".
• When she talks, listen, hold eye contact, nod your head and say "u-huh" every now and then, so that you appear to be listening attentively.
• Actually listen attentively.
• Occasionally summarize what she's said. This way you make it clear you listen and understand, she can feel understood, and if you misunderstood she can correct you. Like: "So, you did X because Y?"
• Empathize, say "I can imagine that must have been tough" or whatever, when that's appropriate
• Tell her about something similar that happened to you, share stuff from your own life. Be vulnerable.
• Ask more open questions
• Don't be afraid of asking directly for her feelings. "How did that make you feel?" is a fine quesion, but scary for many men for some reason.
  

After she tells you stuff, you ask more questions, delving deeper into what she's said. In the beginning you know nothing about her, and you're trying to understand who she is and what her life is like. To complete this picture in your mind you will automatically start to wonder about certain things, which you can ask her about.

You can go deeper in several ways. Let's say she says: "I wanted to go to art school, but then I decided to go into business because that just felt safer."
One very easy but effective way to ask more is to simply state the words you are interested in in the form of a question. You could say in this example: "Art school?", "Safer?" Simply say that and she will continue talking about whatever you ask.

You can also say: "I can imagine that was XXX" where XXX is whatever it makes you feel or how you think it made her feel. Sort of like a cold read, but not gamey. This can also spur her to talk more about how it made her feel or what it was like.

By asking a new open question you can redirect the conversation in any direction you choose. You can ask so many questions or make so many statements after that sentence above. Like: "What did you like about art school?", "What do you like about business school", "When did you decide to go to business school? Did anything in particular make you change your mind?", "How do you feel about your decision now?", "Do you attach a lot of importance to safety?", "Do you still do something with art in your life?", "Do you want to work in business in the future?"

You can come up with these quesions by trying to understand what she says, and by trying to understand her. Don't presume you know exactly what she means when she says something like that, or anything, really. Her values and interests and morals and past and personality are all different from yours. If you keep asking you will find out more and more.

Some of these questions are deep. I did many of these sorts of conversations in school (I study psychology), and it's very interesting that many students, myself included, would often not delve deeper into feelings and keep the conversation superficial at the beginning of the course. And more interesting: we did not realize we avoided those feelings. Afterwards we would just say "Ah man! I ran out of stuff to ask!" While for an observer it was clear that many statements by the "client" contained words that, if asked about, would give a lot more depth to the conversation.

To practice, just ask about a feeling whenever a girl mentions it. She got angry? What made her angry about that? She thought her friend acted silly? What made her feel that? She is unsure about where to apply for a job? What makes her feel unsure? She got fired? That sucks. How does she feel about it now?

It will be very pleasant experience for her when you show interest, understanding and acceptance while she talks about herself. If she's interested in you, then you can expect questions back. Share freely about yourself and then lead the way for her to be more open about herself too, and an emotional connection can develop.

Note that when she is sharing vulnerable stuff about herself, teasing takes a backseat and you can be interested, kind and empathic.

[playmaker001]

I think I have a man crush on Halo. Great advice man. For a guy that's already pretty damn charming with the ladies, it even helped me.

[Edmond Dantès]

@Halo: It's interesting, I use a very similiar concept. Well written and good advice. But I'd like to add that it's equally important that you share personal stuff about yourself as well, so it doesn't become an interrogation.

Actually what you've written here:

Quote:Tell her about something similar that happened to you, share stuff from your own life. Be vulnerable.

And I would say: Don't go into deep questions to quickly at the beginning of the conversation (first two minutes). The vast majority of people won't share with you their intimate stories when they don't know you that well. So start with some usual small-talk, then use Halo's method and never forget to talk about yourself as well. This was a huge sticking point for me a few months ago. I was just so interested in the other person and what she told me that I forgot to add my stories to the conversation.

The effect of it was that the conversation didn't go any deeper, until I became more vulnerable and shared my emotions, stories, etc...

Quote:Note that when she is sharing vulnerable stuff about herself, teasing takes a backseat

!!!

My sticking point isn't to have deep, emotional conversations. My problem is that I find it very difficult to transfer it into a sexual conversation. Has anybody some tips for that?

[Halo Effect]

Thanks playmaker and Edmond.

Edmond Dantès Wrote:@Halo: It's interesting, I use a very similiar concept. Well written and good advice. But I'd like to add that it's equally important that you share personal stuff about yourself as well, so it doesn't become an interrogation.

If you mean by "interrogation" that it becomes unpleasant for the girl, then this depends on the girl. Some girls do love it if you just keep listening and asking and empathizing. They feel amazed at how much you care about them as opposed to just caring about getting in their pants, and the longer you talk with them this way, the closer they feel to you. (I've had conversations with girls who wouldn't stop talking about themselves. I could hardly get a word in. But they DID develop strong attraction for me.) On the other hand, delving deeper into feelings will make some girls uncomfortable. Just like there are guys who feel uncomfortable talking about their feelings, there are girls like this too! Asking deep questions will put them on guard.

But the ideal situation is when things are in balance; when you both share stuff. Although, if a girl is not completely self-centered, it's natural that things will go back and forth in a conversation. If you never share anything about yourself, this can probably be attributed to a lack of assertiveness and/or an issue with being vulnerable on your part. Most people actually talk too much about themselves. Like when a girl says: "I love traveling", you say "Oh, I love traveling, too. I went to Australia and Thailand and..." That's a good way of making her feel unheard and unappreciated, especially if you do it often. In a situation like this, I will feel an itch to talk about MY experience. I will suppress it and satisfy my interest in her and only then talk about what her remarks made me want to say about myself. There will be natural points where you can start talking about yourself. For example, she asks you a question (duh), or you heard what you wanted to hear from her on the current topic and now you want to share about yourself.

If you are asking her questions, that doesn't mean you aren't showing your own feelings. You can combine connecting with her with asking questions. After she says that she loves traveling, you can say: "Oh I love traveling too! That's awesome!". And then you follow up with a question, like "Which places have you travelled to?" Then you can listen to her, and you either start talking about yourself afterwards, or more likely, she will ASK you about your experiences afterwards. Usually, as you ask open questions and get to know more about her, you will find out things that you connect with. These can be hobbies, passions, experiences, but also values and opinions and so on. As these things come up, you can show your sincere interest, appreciation or enthusiasm, or whatever it is you feel. (Note the difference here with teasing. She shares her "true self" and you connect with it with your "true self". You handle her vulnerability with care. Your reaction is sincere and creates an emotional connection!) You can then share about yourself. If she's a good conversationalist (and is interested, but let's assume she's interested ), she will show interest back and ask good questions so you can talk about yourself. (And yes, this is not in the first two minutes! This is after you've had some superficial conversation and teasing and so on. But it can be quickly.) Some girls will just start talking about themselves again. Again, just like there are men who aren't good conversationalists, there are women who are not good conversationalists.

Note how being attentive and being a good listener and connecting with her emotionally is completely congruent here with qualifying her and "being the selector". You ask her questions about herself. You show your sincere appreciation when she says something that you connect with. But when she can't arouse your interest in any way - if she's not compatible with you - then you lose your interest in her.

Quote:Actually what you've written here:



And I would say: Don't go into deep questions to quickly at the beginning of the conversation (first two minutes). The vast majority of people won't share with you their intimate stories when they don't know you that well. So start with some usual small-talk, then use Halo's method and never forget to talk about yourself as well. This was a huge sticking point for me a few months ago. I was just so interested in the other person and what she told me that I forgot to add my stories to the conversation.

The effect of it was that the conversation didn't go any deeper, until I became more vulnerable and shared my emotions, stories, etc...

Yes, sharing your own stories and being vulnerable is important. You can take the lead in this way, and as you show more vulnerability, she can feel safe showing her own vulnerability too. Also, she can feel a bond with you as you confide in her (you make her feel special). And also, it can make you feel emotionally connected to her when you show your vulnerability and she accepts you and is interested in you.

But I must say, I think you can connect, too, without telling too much about yourself (although I do share stuff about myself in conversations, but just making a point here). Usually, if a man is uncomfortable sharing his feelings and talking about them, he is also uncomfortable talking about her feelings. He will keep things superficial, period. The difficulty with vulnerability shows itself both in talking about himself as well as talking about her. What I said above, about showing enthusiasm and sincere interest as she says something you connect with, that's vulnerability too, in a way. You're putting your emotions out there.
Let's say she shares a story of how a loved one died. If you shamelessly and sincerely show true empathy and connect with her and tell her what you think of it and ask her more questions, that can be as powerful as sharing your own vulnerable story. Similarly, if she shares a story of how she did something slutty, and you simply listen unfazed, with acceptance and understanding and then ask interested questions in a mature way, this can also be at least as powerful as sharing your own stories.

Quote:My sticking point isn't to have deep, emotional conversations. My problem is that I find it very difficult to transfer it into a sexual conversation. Has anybody some tips for that?

Before I make this post even longer, what kind of situations are you talking about? Can you give an example of a situation?

[Spikes]

Yea thanks alot guys! I tried alot of this stuff out again last weekend and the past 2 days and it's been an instant game changer!