How to Stop Flaking - My Method (Input Appreciated)

[FirstAidKit]

(04-13-2012 09:23 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Unless you're a total recluse you're going to have things in common with women but a lot of guys end up in The Friend Zone because they don't know how to do all the other things. Those are the situations where the guy comes on here and says, "Man we had good conversation, she seemed really interested....but then when I asked her out she flaked/said she had a boyfriend/disappeared. This happens to me all the time!".

Look at this post from FirstAidKit: http://postmasculine.com/forum/Thread-Co...85#pid7185

See how she can have the kind of conversation you just suggested but felt no attraction for the guy? Because it's much more than what you are suggesting and if you're doing well with women, you yourself are sub-communicating all the things that you are saying is not necessary...that whole unconscious competence thing I talked about above.

Yeah, I can have that kind of conversation and connection and not feel attraction. But I almost certainly won't feel the attraction without having it (barring occasions induced by dry spells or blinding physical beauty).


I'm still of the opinion that most of your 'DHV' stuff is solved by actually doing interesting shit. and then talking about it, and seeing if they are interested. The reason these men at the bottom of your pyramid are doing so terribly is because most really aren't doing much interesting shit, and have nothing to connect with yet.

The only 'PUA' tactic I think is worth telling men is physical escalation - most people I know just... picked up that that is how you show you are into someone, so if you missed that stage you need to be informed pronto.

The more I read this forum the more I feel game is mostly a process of making yourself as attractive as you can be, and getting really, really good at screening for who is going to be attracted. (Which handily applies quite nicely to the female side of dating as well)

[Tim]

I don't usually listen to stuff like that, because I think it's a waste of time, but that was interesting.

This part was key though:

You: "What's the most adventurous thing you've done?"

Her: "Um I guess...[Can't hear what she says exactly]. That's like the only sport I can do. Like hit a baseball?! I can't do that!"

You: "Let me see your hands. Actually you're pretty well-balanced, that's good"

The sad thing here is... she's actually excited to talk to you and is enjoying the conversation, but you're too oblivious as to why that is. You think it's because you 'ran a routine well' and that you've 'pumped her state' etc. But what you don't realise is that you had this great opportunity to genuinely connect with her there, and take the conversation somewhere personal. If you'd started talking about how you're really bad at sports too, or asked her more about whatever sport she said she played, that would have been so more real to her.

But instead you think that routine's job is done, and now it's time to move onto the next one. So you start talking about how one finger is longer than the other.

What you're missing is that this is all about intent. You can change the conversation topic any time, that's fine. But doing it because you're not interested in the response she gave you and you want to talk about something you think you'll have more in common with her is very different from doing it because you think that you need to bring up another topic to keep her interested. That you haven't 'earned' her attraction yet, or that she will bore of the conversation if you don't run another routine to 'spike' her interest. Instead of focusing on finding something that you both care about and then just talking about that for as long as it both interests you.

From your perspective if a girl isn't interested in you it's about finding a routine that will change that, or improving the way you deliver it. From Mark's perspective you just accept that incompatibility and move on.

[baller08]

Absolutely FAK...100% agree about making your life more interesting and yes guys at the bottom of that pyramid often times have nothing going for them.

I don't think anyone suggest otherwise. If you look at Mace (if he's not lying) he works on other parts of his life, it sounds like he's on a pretty good path. I've never been into the PUA scene, but the ones I do know of in the industry, be it Stylelife, Love Systems, David DeAngelo....all of them encourage living an all around lifestyle and to have a well balanced life.

I think we're way past the "be fat, be poor, run this routine and wear a funny hat and you'll get a 10". To be honest with you, I haven't seen anyone advertise that in a very long time.

So now we're simply back to this: The guy is working on making his life as attractive as possible and that's going to take some time (except for style because you can change your wardrobe in one weekend).....but till it'll clicks on, how do some of these lowest tier guys get some early term success so they can keep moving forward?

Even a fat girl has to lose 10lbs before she loses a 100.

[Tim]

(04-13-2012 10:00 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  The more I read this forum the more I feel game is mostly a process of making yourself as attractive as you can be, and getting really, really good at screening for who is going to be attracted. (Which handily applies quite nicely to the female side of dating as well)

This. FAK is a woman. A very patient one clearly, to put up with these boards. Listen to women. They know what they want, far more than we do. I know the default thinking is 'women don't know what they want, show them what they want blah fucking blah', but no, they do. They often aren't as able to articulate it or express it as well as we as a gender would like (not that we're any better), but they definitely know. So listen to her.

[Halo Effect]

Baller,

I didn't mean to derail the discussion by referring to PUA repeatedly. I was using the term to refer to Mace's views. Mace talked about things like tactics and value in his posts. That's what I was arguing against.

I agree with you that we have to learn, or unlearn, many things, and that we have to walk before we can run. We probably disagree about HOW one has to go about learning these things, though.

A man can begin expressing his sexuality, simply by expressing his sexuality. He could begin by doing it in the easiest way he can think of, and then going further as his comfort zone grows. Same with assertiveness and vulnerability. He can tackle these things directly, and no techniques would be required. No viewpoint other than the one I described is necessary. (I'm not saying tackling these things directly would be easy though. Far from it.)

[baller08]

That's bullshit Tim. Women who understand what we're talking, like FAK, have some valuable opinions. But come on...one of the reasons why most of these guys end up this way because they have listened to what women have told them they wanted all their life.

You guys who are the heavy hitters here really need to be more responsible when you give advice like this. Don't forget what it's like out in the real world, away from these forum walls.

---

(04-13-2012 10:21 PM)Halo Effect Wrote:  I agree with you that we have to learn, or unlearn, many things, and that we have to walk before we can run. We probably disagree about HOW one has to go about learning these things, though.

Yeah and that's what makes this conversation so interesting and hopefully valuable to the guys reading it.

Quote:A man can begin expressing his sexuality, simply by expressing his sexuality.

OK. Right now Halo...jump higher. Just simply...jump higher.

That's what it sounds like to a 25yr old virgin when you say what you said.

[Mace]

(04-13-2012 10:14 PM)Tim Wrote:  The sad thing here is... she's actually excited to talk to you and is enjoying the conversation, but you're too oblivious as to why that is. You think it's because you 'ran a routine well' and that you've 'pumped her state' etc. But what you don't realise is that you had this great opportunity to genuinely connect with her there, and take the conversation somewhere personal. If you'd started talking about how you're really bad at sports too, or asked her more about whatever sport she said she played, that would have been so more real to her.

But instead you think that routine's job is done, and now it's time to move onto the next one. So you start talking about how one finger is longer than the other.

And you're coming from the perspective of a guy who's aware of these "routines".

Like I stated in the OP, I prefer to make my connection over the phone and on the first date, where I logistics are better and more intimate, and I can run "comfort". In our initial 10 minute interaction, I want her to leave thinking "he was a cool interesting guy, I'm intrigued by him, and I wouldn't mind getting to know him more."

I'll save that connecting / deep rapport stuff for later. After all, I've stopped her in the middle of campus, and there's only so much time for the interaction as we both have places to go.

Bottom line is, in the end the routines, tactics, and ploys WORKED. For a guy with no prior experience with women, this is FAR more useful than littering his head with an inner game pep talk. He now knows what to say, he can hone it, perfect it, and when he's become good enough and developed confidence, he can do away with the routines and tactics (as Mark has now done).

[baller08]

I think this conversation is terrific. So on Monday I'll be interested to see how it turns out. I'm going to leave you all with one scenario.

One day, you're going to be at some venue (bar, party, bookstore, wherever) and you're going to see this one girl who just stands out to you among the rest. You're not going to care about meeting anyone else but her. So you're going to walk up to her and you're going to open your mouth and say something. And you're going to have a conversation with her. Pretty immediately you're going to feel something you've never felt before. You're going to somehow just know that this woman is going to be really important in your life, that you were just meant to meet each other; that its going to change both your lives.

You are also going to know that just because you feel this way, doesn't mean you still don't have to take her along the journey and let her experience this dance with you. This isn't a Hollywood movie, it's your life, so you're not guaranteed a happy ending.

You're going to call her and you'll go on a first date and it'll be effortless. And you'll move forward together and your lives will change in amazing ways....just like how you felt in your gut that day you met her. It wasn't out of neediness or desperation because you would have other women in your life and in your bed by then. But you'll drop them all because you won't want to devote your energy to them anymore.

When your friends asks you what you said or what you did...you won't be able to answer them. You won't really remember exactly. You were just being you. You were just talking to her and you just clicked.

When her friends ask her how you met, she'll be able to go into every detail. But when they ask her, "What did you like about him?", she'll just say, "I don't know...there was just something about him, I couldn't put my finger on it....but I just knew within the first 5 minutes there was something there".

When this happens to you, you'll look back on this little conversation in this little forum and realize how right everybody was and how wrong everybody was all that the same time.

[FirstAidKit]

(04-13-2012 10:18 PM)Tim Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 10:00 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  The more I read this forum the more I feel game is mostly a process of making yourself as attractive as you can be, and getting really, really good at screening for who is going to be attracted. (Which handily applies quite nicely to the female side of dating as well)

This. FAK is a woman. A very patient one clearly, to put up with these boards. Listen to women. They know what they want, far more than we do. I know the default thinking is 'women don't know what they want, show them what they want blah fucking blah', but no, they do. They often aren't as able to articulate it or express it as well as we as a gender would like (not that we're any better), but they definitely know. So listen to her.

Haha I actually find this forum really interesting. I think a lot about dating and relating (maybe too much, I think I'm gonna take a break for a bit) and it's great to see men talking about it and hear their opinions, even if I find some of them a little exhausting, i.e this thread.

I'd like to think I'm getting better at knowing what I personally want... and that it's taken me a while to get there, and that sometimes people are scared to admit what they want truthfully to themselves. I had a point a little over 18 months ago where I'd say that what I really wanted was a proper boyfriend... while exclusively sleeping with people who were very very much not people I'd want to be my boyfriend. Doesn't that story sound familiar?

It took me a long time to realise that I was still really hung up on my ex I broke up with when I moved to London (it took me seeing him again, infrequently, whenever we were in the same city, for about a year, actually). I wasn't lying when I said I wanted a boyfriend, I just hadn't admitted to myself that I really wanted that specific one I was still in love with. When I finally broke it off for good, I started meeting people I actually wanted to date quite quickly.

Eh, that kindof veered off topic a little. I guess what I'm trying to get at is you should listen to what people/women/men tell you they want, and you should try and figure out the reasons why they want that, and it might surprise you. And the best way to do that is talking to them and connecting with them like a human being.

[Mark]

Mace: Hey guys, any idea how to minimize flakiness?
Everybody: Yeah, connect with her more during the initial interaction.
Mace: No, no, I do that later, and over the phone, I have this whole system see. But really, how do I prevent flakes?

*FACEPALM*

This feels like another example of a guy saying he wants advice, but really he just wants to convince people he's right.

[Tim]

Exactly. Dude, if you want advice, it's all right here. If you came to preach? Well, we're not buying sorry.

[Tim]

(04-13-2012 10:25 PM)baller08 Wrote:  That's bullshit Tim. Women who understand what we're talking, like FAK, have some valuable opinions. But come on...one of the reasons why most of these guys end up this way because they have listened to what women have told them they wanted all their life.

You guys who are the heavy hitters here really need to be more responsible when you give advice like this. Don't forget what it's like out in the real world, away from these forum walls.

---

No, that's not what I was saying. Women give bad advice about dating, but so do men. This wasn't specifically a 'women give good advice, ignore these guys', it was just that the guys we're talking about are very rarely reacting to what is actually happening in front of them, but instead they're applying a set of beliefs to try and explain it. I think they'd be better off trying to really understand what is happening in front of them than doing that.

Hey man, I have a request for you, a serious one. Can you post something on these forums asking for advice? Doesn't have to be about dating, just anything that this forum potentially touches on. That would make me think your objections about us not being in touch with the real world are more valid. Because we all have some of these issues ourselves, and we all post about them, except for you. I think it'd be cool if you could do that and then I'd feel like we're on board with each other.

[Mace]

(04-13-2012 10:14 PM)Tim Wrote:  I don't usually listen to stuff like that, because I think it's a waste of time, but that was interesting.

This part was key though:

You: "What's the most adventurous thing you've done?"

Her: "Um I guess...[Can't hear what she says exactly]. That's like the only sport I can do. Like hit a baseball?! I can't do that!"

You: "Let me see your hands. Actually you're pretty well-balanced, that's good"

The sad thing here is... she's actually excited to talk to you and is enjoying the conversation, but you're too oblivious as to why that is. You think it's because you 'ran a routine well' and that you've 'pumped her state' etc. But what you don't realise is that you had this great opportunity to genuinely connect with her there, and take the conversation somewhere personal. If you'd started talking about how you're really bad at sports too, or asked her more about whatever sport she said she played, that would have been so more real to her.

But instead you think that routine's job is done, and now it's time to move onto the next one. So you start talking about how one finger is longer than the other.

Tim, did you even listen to the entire audio? Towards the end I ask her what she's majoring in, what made her want to go into it, what she intends to pursue a career. I tell her about what I do. Yes, that's me trying to connect with her personally.

I think you subscribe to the dogma that all routines are bad. IMO routines are great if you can pepper it between a genuine interaction. Keep in mind there's only so much you can converse about in 10 minutes with a total stranger while standing by a quadrangle in the middle of the campus.

[shadow]

(04-14-2012 06:03 PM)Mace Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 10:14 PM)Tim Wrote:  I don't usually listen to stuff like that, because I think it's a waste of time, but that was interesting.

This part was key though:

You: "What's the most adventurous thing you've done?"

Her: "Um I guess...[Can't hear what she says exactly]. That's like the only sport I can do. Like hit a baseball?! I can't do that!"

You: "Let me see your hands. Actually you're pretty well-balanced, that's good"

The sad thing here is... she's actually excited to talk to you and is enjoying the conversation, but you're too oblivious as to why that is. You think it's because you 'ran a routine well' and that you've 'pumped her state' etc. But what you don't realise is that you had this great opportunity to genuinely connect with her there, and take the conversation somewhere personal. If you'd started talking about how you're really bad at sports too, or asked her more about whatever sport she said she played, that would have been so more real to her.

But instead you think that routine's job is done, and now it's time to move onto the next one. So you start talking about how one finger is longer than the other.

Tim, did you even lists to the entire audio? Towards the end I ask her what she's majoring in, what made her want to go into it, what she intends to pursue a career. I tell her about what I do. Yes, that's me trying to connect with her personally.

I think you subscribe to the dogma that all routines are bad. IMO routines are great if you can pepper it between a genuine interaction. Keep in mind there's only so much you can converse about in 10 minutes while standing by a quadrangle in the middle of the campus.

Mace, dude. Here is a solid pointer. Pay attention. Obviously you are not happy with your results. Otherwise you wouldn't be thinking about this stuff. So why then are you trying to convince people that your "method" is great? Why are you being so resistant? Drop your ego and take notes.

If you like your results, then stop convincing people that your method is superior. I, for one, believe that people should do what they need to, to get results. If one pursues it long enough, he/she will reach the same conclusions as one who is experienced.

As for what Tim said in that post, it was more of an attitude thing than specifics. The girl is telling you about something meaningful to her. Instead of finding out more about that (in your terms connection building "tactics"), you think of it as "Ok, I've done my routine. Time to move on to the next one". That is totally fine if it works for you. If you are getting a lot of flakes with your "method" though, you now should know the reason. You don't develop enough of a connection or in MM terms, comfort.

As for a 10 min conversation at a quadrangle, you do know that you can move girls right. Just say, "hey, let's go get a coffee", grab her hand and move her.

[machiavelli]

Jesus, the egos. The egos.

[SeXyBaCk]

Just out of curiosity...the audio...(I had to switch it off, made me cringe. I get these quite intense back spasms when I feel shame-by-proxy) ... so was that you Mace or some other dude? There are a few conflicting statements in the thread.

Regardless, recording people without their knowledge.. = creepy STALKER. Check yourself man if you're doing it. That's something.... normal people just don't do.

Routines... sound so fake, even I pick up on it and I'm not particularly attentive. I.m.o. women know within the first 2 minutes if they can imagine going on a date with you or not. Their mind is pretty much made up. That's how it is for me. It's just about being aggressive without being obnoxious while moving it along at a comfortable pace.

I appreciate that some people have social anxiety for a number of reason. When it's really bad it's probably best to seek behaviour therapy. Reading books won't do the trick. If you're a shy person and just need to get out there, okay.. write down what you could say.. get a few ideas. If you're just a regular guy who has absolutely no problem making smalltalk...why on earth would you want to go around spouting repeptitive lines to different girls time and time again? are you the robocop? How many lives do you think you can life? You have only one, every moment is unique, don't cheat yourself out of that.

As Mark (I think it was) said... you seem to have the approaching of women down... move along to a new challenge.

[Mace]

Sexyback, the fact that you're aware of these routines is warping your judgement. Clearly the girls feel otherwise.

[SeXyBaCk]

How do you actually know? Have you asked a woman if she'd prefer you to talk less random shit and just cut to the chase of what you actually want without using the words 'sex please' while salivating profusely? You didn't answer the question if it was you. I went out with my brother last sunday and I'm returning from the washroom and come across him talking to a young woman about how she should shave half of her head. Generic banter, really does sound rehearsed me. I can sense it from a mile away and like I said... I've not read any pua material apart from the game so it's not like I'm familiar with a lot of routines either. It's that unnatural pause in the conversation that happens when you're thinking about what to use next. Please note, I'm not telling you to stop or what to do, do whatever works for you. But continuously asking yourself if you really need the routines can't do much harm in terms of checking your development.

[Leo]

Mace have you interacted with a girl that DOESN'T PLAY GAMES? Isn't it wonderful? When she shows her attraction toward you, when she's HONEST and open to go on dates with you and to get to know each other better, instead of being acting like a retarded: playing hard to get, phone tag, scheduling games, etc. What can you expect from a girl like that? How enjoyable can be an interaction with her? When she's gonna stop being fake? How authentic can be a person like that, how AUTHENTIC can be an interaction like that one? I think a girl that behaves like that is the equivalent of what you are trying to do, and the opposite of what these guys are trying to tell you. Who wants to deal with a girl like that? She doesn't know how to express her emotions, how to communicate, she needs to rely on a bunch of ruses (manipulation) to get a guy. It's not real, not authentic. A waste of time.

[Matt II]

(04-13-2012 07:08 PM)Halo Effect Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 06:24 PM)Matt II Wrote:  I don´t use tactics or anything when hitting on women. I am just me, honest and to the point. I can go up to women in daytime and tell them they are cute or hot whilste smiling and being totally confident. I don´t say things to get women attracted to me, I just say things to express myself and to screen the girl. I still get a lot of flakes. Like many. What am I supposed to do? (Serious question)

I feel like it's about empathy. And connection. When I'm talking with a girl and she's not into me, I feel it. When I do make a connection with a girl, I feel that, too. Then it's like we're on the same team. There's no question of flaking. In stead, there's an understanding between us. We know we want to see each other, and so we will, and we will both put in effort to make that happen. (Or that's just my belief system and it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. But this is how I perceive it once I've clicked with a girl.)

I really think it's about empathizing and connecting. Feeling what she feels. Knowing what's happening in the interaction.

If I'd have to take a guess, I'd say the best way to "learn" this is by getting in touch with your own emotions. Empathy is basically knowing "if I were in his/her shoes, what would I feel?". That is impossible to know without knowing how you feel.

What do you do if you feel there is no connection?
Forgot to ask this...

---

(04-13-2012 09:33 PM)Halo Effect Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 09:23 PM)baller08 Wrote:  HaloEffect - I don't disagree with the second way of having a conversation. But come on...lots of guy can have shared interest, passions, traits and so forth with girls and get no sexual interest from the girl...it's called The Friend Zone.

Unless you're a total recluse you're going to have things in common with women but a lot of guys end up in The Friend Zone because they don't know how to do all the other things. Those are the situations where the guy comes on here and says, "Man we had good conversation, she seemed really interested....but then when I asked her out she flaked/said she had a boyfriend/disappeared".

Look at this post from FirstAidKit: http://postmasculine.com/forum/Thread-Co...85#pid7185

See how she can have the kind of conversation you just suggested but felt no attraction for the guy? Because it's much more than what you are suggesting and if you're doing well with women, you yourself are sub-communicating all the things that you are saying is not necessary...that whole unconscious competance thing I talked about above.

That sort of conversation is not all that is necessary. Definitely not. I do not believe that we are all already very attractive to women.

If a guy ends up in the friend zone, then he's not sexually attractive to women yet. This is usually because he is not assertive, afraid to be "vulnerable", unwilling to show his sexual attraction. I would say: overcome shame, accept your sexuality, gather the courage to show your sexual desire to women, risk rejection. Eventually, become more comfortable with sexuality and expressing that sexuality.

There is still no need for techniques, routines, and so on.

I absolutely believe that we have to work on ourselves. I do not believe that any man will automatically convey all the right things. But I'm saying that the PUA approach is not the way to our destination.

Edited to add: I wrote that post with the two approaches to show how different the mindsets are. The two approaches are fundamentally different. If you can connect with women, you are not automatically a mega-player, but if you use the PUA mindset, then rich, deep, fulfiling connections are hard to come by, because the assumptions/beliefs on which that mindset is built do not consider that sort of connection realistic or even possible.

Would you say that you "gain attraction" through exhibiting the behaviours you talked about, or do you sort of just "cash in" on the women that are attracted to from the get go becuase you now are not afraid to make a move? (because you are comfortable with you´re sexuality)

[Halo Effect]

Quote:What do you do if you feel there is no connection?

If I am attracted to her and I've tried to flirt with her, connect with her, and it's not working at all, then it's not meant to be. Can't get every girl.

Quote:Would you say that you "gain attraction" through exhibiting the behaviours you talked about, or do you sort of just "cash in" on the women that are attracted to from the get go becuase you now are not afraid to make a move? (because you are comfortable with you´re sexuality)

Sometimes a girl is into you, but you don't make a move so you lose an opportunity. But that's definitely not all there is to it. Being assertive, vulnerable, confident, sexual, and so on is extremely important.

I can tell you from my own experience that if you act asexual and timid, then it's not simply that you don't cash in on opportunities... You can actually repell girls by being like that.

I used to be a shy Nice Guy, who couldn't show sexual interest if his life depended on it. Even though I was tall and attractive (which I found out much later. I had my first kiss at age 20, the second around my 22nd birthday..!) To illustrate how important the traits I mentioned are: One time on vacation, before I ever kissed a girl, my outgoing, supersocial friend tried to help me with girls. Me and my friend were walking with two girls, who we had been hanging out with that night.

He was doing anything he could to help me with those girls, basically being a good wingman. He spoke highly of me to the girls, and I know he meant every word. There was a clear opening... If one of the girls was even mildly interested in me, she had her chance. But you know what happened? The girls literally laughed out loud at the idea of doing anything with me. In their eyes, I was not a man. They were extremely disrespectful, basically laughing at me while I was right there in their presence, and they didn't care. Even though I was a tall, good looking, blond guy, which is all you need according to some.

The thing is, if you dare to be vulnerable, be assertive, express your sexuality, and so on, then you won't get every girl. But if you lack any masculinity and sexuality, if you are afraid to be a man, then you don't even show up on girls' radars. Then the idea of sex with you will feel incredibly awkward to girls, or even creep them out.

[Mace]

(04-15-2012 02:52 AM)Leo Wrote:  Mace have you interacted with a girl that DOESN'T PLAY GAMES? Isn't it wonderful? When she shows her attraction toward you, when she's HONEST and open to go on dates with you and get to know each other better, instead of being acting like a retarded: playing hard to get, phone tag, scheduling games, etc. What can you expect from a girl like that? How enjoyable can be an interaction with her? When she's gonna stop being fake? How authentic can be a person like that, how AUTHENTIC can be an interaction like that one? I think a girl that behaves like that is the equivalent of what you are trying to do, and the opposite of what these guys are trying to tell you. Who wants to deal with a girl like that? She doesn't know how to express her emotions, how to communicate, she needs to rely on a bunch of ruses (manipulation) to get a guy. It's not real, not authentic. A waste of time.

Leo, those are all valid points. But here's the reality of most attractive young college-aged America girls - they play games!

So here's the deal:

1) Do I want to play an endless numbers game?
2) Do I want to make the most of the numbers I do get?

Keep in mind the context of the OP - quick day game number closes where often there is ATTRACTION, but a lack of COMFORT.

Given the aversion most young American girls have to "randoms", "creepers", "sketchballs" etc. most will rationalize ways to NOT meet with you on a date. What if he's a creeper? What if it gets awkward? And then there's the influence of all her cockblocking player-hater single girlfriends.

Unless your game is super-tight like z, the vast majority of girls you close in this context will be MAYBE girls. That 10-15 minute phone call can reassure that you're a chill, normal guy and convert her form a MAYBE girl to a YES girl. Jumping the gun and "texting her out" prematurely can easily spook the girl from a MAYBE girl to a NO girl.

How often do we see this on this forum? Guy meets girl, texts her some chit chat, they never hang out. How many of those numbers could have been converted to dates and lays if some time was spent building COMFORT over the phone first, old school?

[Leo]

http://postmasculine.com/forum/Thread-Younger-Women

http://postmasculine.com/the-guide-to-older-women

[Mark]

Young women will not play games if you don't let them.

[Leo]

But Mace the point is: YOU CAN CREATE COMFORT WHEN YOU MEET THE GIRL, IT DOESN'T TAKE SO MUCH TIME IF YOU CONNECT WITH HER. I don't understand why you don't see this. Of course if you just see a girl on the street walk up to her introduce yourself and just ask for her number, nothing is gonna happen. BUT if you connect with her, if you "click" with her, if there's chemistrty there's a high probability that you are gonna see her again, once she's interested to see you again the date is gonna happen. Yeah, some girls you never gonna see 'em again, but some are gonna go out on dates with you. It seems that you want to go out with ALL the girls you meet, that's impossible, let it go. It's better if you accept that dating is a numbers game. Go on dates with those girls that are very receptive to you and forget about those that are not receptive to you. That's all.

(04-19-2012 10:50 PM)Mace Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 02:52 AM)Leo Wrote:  Mace have you interacted with a girl that DOESN'T PLAY GAMES? Isn't it wonderful? When she shows her attraction toward you, when she's HONEST and open to go on dates with you and get to know each other better, instead of being acting like a retarded: playing hard to get, phone tag, scheduling games, etc. What can you expect from a girl like that? How enjoyable can be an interaction with her? When she's gonna stop being fake? How authentic can be a person like that, how AUTHENTIC can be an interaction like that one? I think a girl that behaves like that is the equivalent of what you are trying to do, and the opposite of what these guys are trying to tell you. Who wants to deal with a girl like that? She doesn't know how to express her emotions, how to communicate, she needs to rely on a bunch of ruses (manipulation) to get a guy. It's not real, not authentic. A waste of time.

Leo, those are all valid points. But here's the reality of most attractive young college-aged America girls - they play games!

So here's the deal:

1) Do I want to play an endless numbers game?
2) Do I want to make the most of the numbers I do get?

Keep in mind the context of the OP - quick day game number closes where often there is ATTRACTION, but a lack of COMFORT.

Given the aversion most young American girls have to "randoms", "creepers", "sketchballs" etc. most will rationalize ways to NOT meet with you on a date. What if he's a creeper? What if it gets awkward? And then there's the influence of all her cockblocking player-hater single girlfriends.

Unless your game is super-tight like z, the vast majority of girls you close in this context will be MAYBE girls. That 10-15 minute phone call can reassure that you're a chill, normal guy and convert her form a MAYBE girl to a YES girl. Jumping the gun and "texting her out" prematurely can easily spook the girl from a MAYBE girl to a NO girl.

How often do we see this on this forum? Guy meets girl, texts her some chit chat, they never hang out. How many of those numbers could have been converted to dates and lays if some time was spent building COMFORT over the phone first, old school?