How to Stop Flaking - My Method (Input Appreciated)

[Mace]

I do day game at college campuses. My day game interactions last no more than 10 minutes. I get a number in about 1 in 3 approaches.

The biggest challenge in pickup is not getting the number - girls these days give out their numbers like candy. The problem is getting the girls out on a date. Often they won't come out. So how to combat flaky numbers?

The key is buidling comfort over text and phone.

Keep in mind that she's only actually spoken to you for only 10 minutes, you're still a "random stranger" to her. It takes a bit of time to establish enough rapport for the girl to be invested and comfortable enough to meet with you alone.

In my experience with college girls, it takes a good 2-3 days of steady text correspondence to get her comfortable enough to even answer the phone. You have to warm them up first. An impromptu phone call from a "random" is "creepy" to her and they won't answer your call.

I like the "text to call" strategy. Bait them with a teaser text like "i need your input on something, it's a long story". When she texts back, call her right away (she's now compelled to answer the call as she knows you know she has her phone in her hand). Now spend a good 10-15 minutes on the phone, show her that you're a cool, normal guy and not a serial killer, and ask her out. Younger girls today are seldom used to prolonged phone converations with guys, so if you can pull it off you're golden.

Moreover, at this point she knows your voice, you've moved from "random guy" to "normal interesting guy" and she feels comfortable enough to meet you alone.

You probably don't have to deal with this BS with girls 25+, but college girls are of the MSN/Facebook/BBM/texting/"I'm not good on the phone" generation.

So my method is:

Day 1 - get number, text her that night (callback to something initial conversation)
Day 2-3 - exchange texts through the day to build rapport/warm them up
Day 4 - "text to call" & phone call
Day 5/6//7 - meet

If you can't get a meet within a week of the number-close, it's a bust - at this point she's likely forgotten what you look like.

IMO this is the most effective strategy to combat flakes from quick number closes, and transition to meet and lay. This method has worked well for me and a buddy who also does day game.

Input appreciated.

[baller08]

Flakes are not an age thing. Under 25, over 45 doesn't matter. Flaking is an indication that when you met her you didn't evoke enough curiousity, interest, and attraction. Generally it is a lot of work to try to evoke attraction through text and phone to make up for the lack of it during the pick up. I would say, spend a little more time on the pick up so texting and phone is only used to set up the date and logistics and a little bit of comfort/joking around.

Mark has a great piece in his book about this and I think he linked it for free around here somewhere.

If it's working for you though, keep doing it. As I've maintained, results are the only thing that matters. But for a lot of guys if they didn't do it well during the pick up, no amount of creative texting or phone calls will keep her from flaking.

[Mace]

(04-11-2012 08:11 PM)baller08 Wrote:  ...Generally it is a lot of work to try to evoke attraction through text and phone to make up for the lack of it during the pick up. I would say, spend a little more time on the pick up so texting and phone is only used to set up the date and logistics and a little bit of comfort/joking around.

And yet there are guys in here who've spent upwards of 30 minutes in set, only to have the girl flake afterwards.

At a certain mark there's a point of diminishing returns. In my experience this is around the 10 minute mark.

Also, often circumstances and logistics dictate that a set can't last much longer (you're busy or she needs to go somewhere), particularly with quick day game pickups. Spend that time approaching more girls.

I've heard the expression "the game is played in comfort" bandied about and I think it's very true. The vast majority of girls you close during the day are "maybe" girls that need to be converted to "yes" girls. Text & phone rapport (especially the latter) can make the difference. Remember, she wants to avoid the awkwardness of a bad first date with a random stranger, so you have to prove to her that you're a cool, normal guy.

[baller08]

You're talking about two different things, Mace.

Guys can spend 30 minutes and get flakes. Guys can spend 2 years and be in the Friend Zone. That's not what I mean by spending more time.

10 minutes is enough to develop enough curiousity and attraction for her to answer your text and/or call. But a lot of guys don't know how to judge that and will get 10 numbers and 10 flakes. Read around the forums and you'll see flaking is a huge problem and that was what I was referring to. Here is an example: http://postmasculine.com/forum/Thread-Flakes-in-Daygame

Of course no girl wants to go out with a random stranger. But most guys will never be able to make up for the attraction they didn't build during the pick up via text or phone....the girl won't even answer.

In some cases it's better to work on the quality of your initial pick up and then use texting to build some comfort before the date.

If it works for you I'm not arguing that. There is no single method. It depends on where each guy's weakness is.

PS: Spending time approaching more girls is just overall good advice no matter what.

[Chaos]

(04-11-2012 08:31 PM)Mace Wrote:  [quote='baller08' pid='7109' dateline='1334175085']
At a certain mark there's a point of diminishing returns. In my experience this is around the 10 minute mark.

you can't think your interactions with women in those terms. A 10 minute conversation might bring you a k-close, an hour may too. It's not about the quantity of time but about the quality of that time.

[Mace]

(04-11-2012 08:43 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Of course no girl wants to go out with a random stranger. But most guys will never be able to make up for the attraction they didn't build during the pick up via text or phone....the girl won't even answer.

In some cases it's better to work on the quality of your initial pick up and then use texting to build some comfort before the date.

If she's given you her number, it's safe to assume that there was some attraction at some point. And, in my experience, it's not a lack of attraction but comfort that leads the girl to flake.

IMO the reason why guys today get so many flakes is that they never call. She needs to hear your voice to rekindle those emotions she felt when she first met you. I like to keep it old school. How do you think our parents/grandparents courted? Words on a digital screen are no substitute for the sound of my deep, manly baritone.

Of course, if you call girls these days they often won't pick up. This is where the player's hands are tied. "If I ask her out via text she'll probably flake. If I call her she won't pick up."

This is why I emply the "text to call" tactic. Works like a charm!

[Tim]

Worrying about stopping flakes is a waste of time compared to vast number of other things you could be improving. If you don't agree, read this: http://postmasculine.com/phone-numbers

[trader4life]

Funny, I had a number flake (did not return call/text) just this week that I thought was a more solid inital interaction than I have had in a long time. In fact, I would say it went so far as I would call it "perfect". Hell, she was the one suggesting we should hang out and get drinks some time before I could even get it out of my mouth. And no, it was not in an effort to "get rid of me"....or so I thought because I have gotten that vibe before too. haha. I was briefly upset, not because she flaked but because I perceived it as a slam dunk and was questioning my judgement, not the reason for her lack of interest/flaking. Regardless, dwelling on both is a waste of time. Point is, there are a ton of variables and what works for one of us, might not work well for another. I think that is what makes this great is figuring it out for yourself while trying to draw on the experiences of others - whether success or failures. In the end though every table has to stand on its own legs. But as we all know not letting the flakes get you down is the key IMO. You can re-play everything in your mind, but at the end of it all like Mark says "she's just not interested, find another girl."

[Mace]

(04-12-2012 05:04 PM)trader4life Wrote:  Funny, I had a number flake (did not return call/text) just this week that I thought was a more solid inital interaction than I have had in a long time. In fact, I would say it went so far as I would call it "perfect". Hell, she was the one suggesting we should hang out and get drinks some time before I could even get it out of my mouth. And no, it was not in an effort to "get rid of me"....or so I thought because I have gotten that vibe before too. haha.

Post your follow-up texts (along with time stamps). There could be something you're doing on the follow-up that's chasing away these girls. As a guy whose done day game and managed flakes myself, I'll try to help you out.

If you want to maximize your date-to-number ratio, you should approach this methodically. Remember, on a quick cold approach close there's very little margin for error. When she doesn't know you all that well, the slightest hint of neediness or awkwardness can send her running. Everything must be executed tactically and flawlessly.

[Mark]

Please spare us. Last thing we need on this forum is a bunch of guys analyzing each other's texts. It really is a poor use of energy.

Girls flake sometimes. It's life. Best way to prevent it is to have an awesome interaction when you meet them and to be an amazing dude who they'd love to see again. You do that and then it doesn't really matter what or when you text them, they'll be excited to hear from you no matter what.

[Mace]

(04-12-2012 07:45 PM)Mark Wrote:  Please spare us. Last thing we need on this forum is a bunch of guys analyzing each other's texts. It really is a poor use of energy.

Girls flake sometimes. It's life. Best way to prevent it is to have an awesome interaction when you meet them and to be an amazing dude who they'd love to see again. You do that and then it doesn't really matter what or when you text them, they'll be excited to hear from you no matter what.

Mark, I've seen dudes with solid interactions blow it over text. I used to be that guy. Once I tightend up my text and phone game I was converting more numbers to dates and eventually lays.

Keep in mind the vast majority of girls you close during the day are MAYBE girls, you won't get many YES girls with a quick interaction. There's a lot of value in text and especially phone game to converting the MAYBE girls to YES girls.

I use text to get girls on the phone, phone to set up dates, and texts to confirm.

[trader4life]

Wait a minute Mark. Are you trying to tell us that we don’t need to wait for a lunar equinox, call the physic friend’s network, do a background check on the girl, do affirmations for 3 hours straight and then do 3 hours of cardio before we text/call a girl just to make sure she doesn’t flake? Man, I wish somebody would have told me that before….LMAO.

I think you should have a 2 week bootcamp on why girls flake….

[Mark]

(04-12-2012 07:56 PM)Mace Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 07:45 PM)Mark Wrote:  Please spare us. Last thing we need on this forum is a bunch of guys analyzing each other's texts. It really is a poor use of energy.

Girls flake sometimes. It's life. Best way to prevent it is to have an awesome interaction when you meet them and to be an amazing dude who they'd love to see again. You do that and then it doesn't really matter what or when you text them, they'll be excited to hear from you no matter what.

Mark, I've seen dudes with solid interactions blow it over text. I used to be that guy. Once I tightend up my text and phone game I was converting more numbers to dates and eventually lays.

Keep in mind the vast majority of girls you close during the day are MAYBE girls, you won't get many YES girls with a quick interaction. There's a lot of value in text and especially phone game to converting the MAYBE girls to YES girls.

I use text to get girls on the phone, phone to set up dates, and texts to confirm.

You can escalate over phone/text, but it's pretty inefficient and I'd rather just do it in person. If she wants to see me, she'll see me, if she doesn't, I don't spend any time worrying about it.

http://postmasculine.com/phone-numbers

[Chaos]

(04-12-2012 09:10 PM)trader4life Wrote:  Wait a minute Mark. Are you trying to tell us that we don’t need to wait for a lunar equinox, call the physic friend’s network

Are you actually implying that there are people who go out and try to pickup women (with little success no doubt) without a full moon and a psychic wingman?? Fucking betas...

Side note: equinox is preferable of course, but I've also done in with just full moon. Field tested!!!

[IdEngager]

(04-12-2012 10:32 PM)Mark Wrote:  You can escalate over phone/text, but it's pretty inefficient and I'd rather just do it in person. If she wants to see me, she'll see me, if she doesn't, I don't spend any time worrying about it.

http://postmasculine.com/phone-numbers

I'm not completely sure how I'd escalate by text anyway. Should I just be texting girls "Hey bb, I juz cant wait 2 touch yo pussy"?

Note: I'm a terrible but entertaining texter. I figure once I actually get someone to hang with me, I'm just fine either way.

[trader4life]

I'd say swing for the fences....first text just ask her if she likes anal. If she responds it either means the first interaction was great and she is really attracted to you and/or she's a slut. Just go for it!!

[Mark]

OK guys, let's go easy on Mace here. He's just trying to share what's worked for him.

Mace: I guarantee you if you took all the thought and energy you're putting into text/phone and put it into making your interactions better and presenting yourself better upon meeting them, then it wouldn't really matter what you texted them. I usually cut to the chase and set up the date when I meet them and then just use text to confirm it the next day. At the latest, I'll ask them out through text the next day.

Honestly, these days, I don't even own or carry a phone in half the countries I'm in and it hasn't really slowed me down. I either set up a date with them then and there, or I grab them on Facebook, chat with them for a few minutes the next day and then get them out that way. Either way, I only bother asking them out if it's clear they like me and want to see me, and when I do, I get them on a date ASAP, sometimes the that night (if I met them that day) or the next night. My flake rate is extremely low, and like I said, I don't even carry a phone with me half the time.

[baller08]

The other consideration is that Mace is hitting college campuses so younger girls are going to be more tied to their phones, texting, and will have a little more of a short attention span.

[Chaos]

I have to agree. My personal history with phone numbers (pay attention because is actually a really cool enlightenment of how the mind works)

The first number I did get when I started with PUA, and sarging and, you know, actually approaching, I was completely excited, I thought half the lay was already done... I mean, come on, the girl had given me her number, surely she would want to sleep with me right? Wrong of course, it was a flake. I blamed it on calling (she didn't pickup) I should have texted.

After that I started getting a lot of #closes and some k-closes. #closes never got anywhere, I end up either being friend zoned or never hearing from the girl again. I blamed in my text game, it wasn't good enough so afterwards I lost it all. I went online and checked up some advice and routines on text messages.

At this point I might have gotten 100 #closes and maybe 40 k-closes (and I was starting getting laid). I was running my "text routines" which sparked some fun on the first messages only to fade away with time. In that whole time I ONLY got flakes, not one day 2. I blamed it on girls, surely If you don't kiss the girl the first time you met her then generally speaking girls do not respond well to text game (and this is not so long ago, a couple of months, half a year).

FINALLY, after all that time and maybe 150 numbers I realized that the problem was not in the girls, my text game or anything. I would ask for the number after 10 not particularly engaging minutes, and consider that "winning". I made conversation for another 5 minutes so the girl wouldn't realize that I "only wanted her number" and then I'd leave... Do you see the problem? First I was blaming it on everything but myself, then I wasn't particularly interested in building anything unless I saw the opportunity to kiss close... But it wasn't the kiss close what made the deal (and in fact nowadays i do get second dates, make outs and sex from #closes), it was the fact that when I kiss closed I had really worked to get the girl, I had really built attraction, basically the girls liked me not just considered me an "interesting but somewhat weird guy" they met in whatever club.

So to summarize, I agree with what Mark says ...

[Mace]

I've been flaked by girls with whom I've had 2 hour+ instant dates with off cold approach. I also just banged a girl with whom my initial interaction was probably 8 minutes at the most, and where I did most of my gaming over text and phone. What does that tell you? Now did I wish I had spent those 2 hours approaching more girls?

As stated earlier, in my experience there's a point of diminishing returns, when the marginal utility of spending any more time in set is negligible and you're better off using that time to approach more girls. After all, if you believe most of your numbers will flake anyhow, why waste so much time in any one interaction? Approach and number-close more girls in the hopes of finding one that will bite, and use your text/phone game magic to make it happen.

If you want to keep improving and stay sane, you have to have two seemingly contradictory beliefs:

1. Her flaking was beyond my control.

2. I could have gamed her better such that my chances of success were higher.

It's like playing poker. Even if you play the best hand possible, you won't always win.

There are always ways to improve. You could look at things in the interaction you could have improved. Maybe those things were dealbreakers, maybe they weren't, but addressing them will enhance your game over time.

I think the difference in results between "very good" and merely "good" phone/text game is smaller than you'd expect. If I have a very clever text for a chick who isn't into me, she may respond, but not agree to meet up.

I've alternated between texting to call and texting only. I think texting to call is at least as good, and it makes it way easier to set up a date. And young girls by and large do not pick up phone calls from unknown numbers. Even if they do have your number, they're desperately afraid of 'awkwardness' and will not pick up. Texting her after that is kind of awkward - she will feel bad for ignoring you and will not want to face her rudeness by talking to you. Sending a clever text or two first is superior.

But if you text her first, you've warmed her up. She starts thinking, "this guy's funny and cool." Young college girls avoid awkwardness at all costs. If you've never heard the term 'awkward turtle,' all this may come as a surprise to you. 'Awkwardness' is a constant topic of conversations on campus.

I usually text "Got a sec?" as my transition line, after a clever text or two. If they say yes, I call them.

Young girls have never had, or very rarely have, solid phone conversations with eligible men. So if you can pull it off, you're a step closer.

[Chaos]

(04-12-2012 11:32 PM)Mace Wrote:  And young girls by and large do not pick up phone calls from unknown numbers. Even if they do have your number, they're desperately afraid of 'awkwardness' and will not pick up. Texting her after that is kind of awkward - she will feel bad for ignoring you and will not want to face her rudeness by talking to you. Sending a clever text or two first is superior.

I disagree with most of what you've written but nevermind that. Two things here:

1) You do have a point, I always make sure the girl also have my number in her phone, preferably with some kind of callback humor associated to it, althought that's not necessary.
2) is she's desperately afraid of "awkwardness" you didn't build enough comfort, even if you build attraction...

With that said I usually text first, I just don't try to "game" over text, just reestablish contact and arrange a date. I might call or not, although I usually don't except for confirming the date or the place... I mostly use whatsapp these days... Way cheaper

[Mace]

(04-12-2012 11:01 PM)Mark Wrote:  Honestly, these days, I don't even own or carry a phone in half the countries I'm in and it hasn't really slowed me down. I either set up a date with them then and there, or I grab them on Facebook, chat with them for a few minutes the next day and then get them out that way. Either way, I only bother asking them out if it's clear they like me and want to see me, and when I do, I get them on a date ASAP, sometimes the that night (if I met them that day) or the next night. My flake rate is extremely low, and like I said, I don't even carry a phone with me half the time.

Mark, three questions with respect to your day game cold approach tactics:

(1) How long are your initial interactions generally, and how old are the girls you approach?
(2) What's your approach to date to lay ratio?
(3) Since you mention you travel extensively, where do you run your day game? Do you have more success overseas or at home with American girls in America?

A local guy approaching local girls will always have more of a challenge than
(i) a foreign guy approaching local girls, or
(ii) a local guy approaching foreign girls/tourists.

In (i) you're leveraging the cachet of being a novelty. In (ii) you're capitalizing on girls who are in all likelihood new to the country or on vacation, and don't have firmly established social circles. These factors make it significantly easier for the day game player to game, date, and lay these girls. This is why the vast majority of day game videos you find involve foreign girls.

[Mark]

Quote:Mark, three questions with respect to your day game cold approach tactics:

(1) How long are your initial interactions generally, and how old are the girls you approach?
(2) What's your approach to date to lay ratio?
(3) Since you mention you travel extensively, where do you run your day game? Do you have more success overseas or at home with American girls in America?

A local guy approaching local girls will always have more of a challenge than
(i) a foreign guy approaching local girls, or
(ii) a local guy approaching foreign girls/tourists.

In (i) you're leveraging the cachet of being a novelty. In (ii) you're capitalizing on girls who are in all likelihood new to the country or on vacation, and don't have firmly established social circles. These factors make it significantly easier for the day game player to game, date, and lay these girls. This is why the vast majority of day game videos you find involve foreign girls.

1) Anywhere from a few minutes to 10 or 15 minutes. Usually. I don't really know honestly. Depends where I am. Ages are anywhere from 20 to 30.
2) I have no idea. I stopped caring about stuff like this a long time ago. I don't see hitting on girls as something that requires effort or is work, so I don't keep track of efficiency. This is like asking me what my practice/song ratio is on guitar. Who fucking cares? I like playing guitar.
3) Usually in coffee shops, parks, outdoor events... I don't know... I'm more of a night game guy. I'm usually too busy during the day or focused on something else to be bothered to approach. When I approach during the day it's usually in a more social environment like a park, or cafe or something like that. That's just my preference. I never really enjoyed the whole chase-her-down-the-street thing.

It depends on the country, some are easier, some are harder. But I find getting laid in the US to be extremely easy. Like LOL easy at times. No language barrier and 90% of the guys are nervous wrecks, so it's easy to look confident in comparison. Most American guys don't talk about anything interesting, so for me it's just a matter of finding an open-minded and cultured girl. They're usually starved for guys who have something interesting to talk about. I don't mean to sound like a pompous dick. I've been working on myself non-stop for 7+ years now to get to this place. But yes, the US feels very easy compared to many countries I go to.

Your theory about foreign guys and foreign tourists is correct and incorrect, depending on the girl and the situation. There are clear times where being a foreigner or talking to a foreigner is a major disadvantage and times where it's a major advantage. It's more polarizing, your rejections will be quicker and harsher and your successes will be quicker and greater. This absolutely plays into my high consistency. If a girl liked me, there's rarely a shadow of a doubt that I won't see her again.

Quote:I've been flaked by girls with whom I've had 2 hour+ instant dates with off cold approach. I also just banged a girl with whom my initial interaction was probably 8 minutes at the most, and where I did most of my gaming over text and phone. What does that tell you? Now did I wish I had spent those 2 hours approaching more girls?

This tells me that your game isn't very solid in person, and so you rely on a weaker form of communication to get her invested in you. It's a crutch. Let me just put it this way:

Let's say a guy reaches the point where he can get a lot of numbers, but almost all of them flake. He has two options:

1) Learn really good "phone/text" game so that they don't flake anymore.
2) Get better at the initial interaction, work on himself, become a more attractive person.

Option 1 will require learning and practicing a whole new subset of skills and techniques. Now instead of worrying about doing the initial interaction well, he needs to worry about the initial interaction, solid phone/text game and then continuing to game her well on the date until he has sex with her. Chances are, since he spent so much time "gaming her," that it will be harder for a legitimate emotional connection to develop and if he ever starts to really like one of these girls, he will then have to start worrying about more "games," MLTR/FB game, date game, even relationship game, etc.

Option 2 will probably require more effort in the short run, but it will pay off more in the long run. If he develops himself and his identity to a high level, becomes extremely confident and non-needy, he will naturally make a very strong impact on women he meets who are compatible with him. He'll have very strong and meaningful conversations with them quickly and make a great impression. He won't ever have to worry about text/phone game, because the girls will just naturally want to see him so much. He won't have to worry about dates or end game or whatever, because she'll be so excited to hang out with him and go home with him he won't ever have to "game" her beyond the first minute or two. Transitioning into any type of relationship will be natural and seamless because they've already developed so much chemistry.

I went through Option 1. 2005 thru 2008, all I did was post threads like this and obsess over "phone game" and "date game" and all that stuff. Yeah, I got laid a lot. And it was exciting at first. But the effort/reward was not very high. It did not produce very high quality interactions or experiences. The relationships that emerged from them were not exciting or interesting, it was just sex. Which is cool, there's nothing wrong with sex. But there are a lot of ways to get laid that don't require so much mental effort.

Anyway, do what works for you. If you're happy right now with your results and you're getting laid, then that's cool. I imagine too that being a college guy on a college campus requires certain things that a lot of us don't deal with normally. Just realize that just because you've gotten something to work for you that it's not the best way for everyone else or that it's even the best way for you. There could be better ways out there that you're unaware of.

I think eventually, at some point, like most people, you're going to get sick of games and techniques. You're going to get sick of all of the pointless mental masturbation, and you'll likely want to construct an awesome identity and lifestyle for yourself, learn to become genuinely confident and shameless around women, and decide that you're a better man than needing to "game" a girl to get laid. That you deserve women without having to "game" them. When that day comes, I'll still be here. But until then, don't be surprised if the mental masturbation threads like this one aren't very popular.

[Tim]

*Everything goes real quiet*

[Thor]

Beautifully put Mark about the identity and lifestyle.

(04-13-2012 03:36 AM)Mark Wrote:  

Quote:Mark, three questions with respect to your day game cold approach tactics:

(1) How long are your initial interactions generally, and how old are the girls you approach?
(2) What's your approach to date to lay ratio?
(3) Since you mention you travel extensively, where do you run your day game? Do you have more success overseas or at home with American girls in America?

A local guy approaching local girls will always have more of a challenge than
(i) a foreign guy approaching local girls, or
(ii) a local guy approaching foreign girls/tourists.

In (i) you're leveraging the cachet of being a novelty. In (ii) you're capitalizing on girls who are in all likelihood new to the country or on vacation, and don't have firmly established social circles. These factors make it significantly easier for the day game player to game, date, and lay these girls. This is why the vast majority of day game videos you find involve foreign girls.

1) Anywhere from a few minutes to 10 or 15 minutes. Usually. I don't really know honestly. Depends where I am. Ages are anywhere from 20 to 30.
2) I have no idea. I stopped caring about stuff like this a long time ago. I don't see hitting on girls as something that requires effort or is work, so I don't keep track of efficiency. This is like asking me what my practice/song ratio is on guitar. Who fucking cares? I like playing guitar.
3) Usually in coffee shops, parks, outdoor events... I don't know... I'm more of a night game guy. I'm usually too busy during the day or focused on something else to be bothered to approach. When I approach during the day it's usually in a more social environment like a park, or cafe or something like that. That's just my preference. I never really enjoyed the whole chase-her-down-the-street thing.

It depends on the country, some are easier, some are harder. But I find getting laid in the US to be extremely easy. Like LOL easy at times. No language barrier and 90% of the guys are nervous wrecks, so it's easy to look confident in comparison. Most American guys don't talk about anything interesting, so for me it's just a matter of finding an open-minded and cultured girl. They're usually starved for guys who have something interesting to talk about. I don't mean to sound like a pompous dick. I've been working on myself non-stop for 7+ years now to get to this place. But yes, the US feels very easy compared to many countries I go to.

Your theory about foreign guys and foreign tourists is correct and incorrect, depending on the girl and the situation. There are clear times where being a foreigner or talking to a foreigner is a major disadvantage and times where it's a major advantage. It's more polarizing, your rejections will be quicker and harsher and your successes will be quicker and greater. This absolutely plays into my high consistency. If a girl liked me, there's rarely a shadow of a doubt that I won't see her again.

Quote:I've been flaked by girls with whom I've had 2 hour+ instant dates with off cold approach. I also just banged a girl with whom my initial interaction was probably 8 minutes at the most, and where I did most of my gaming over text and phone. What does that tell you? Now did I wish I had spent those 2 hours approaching more girls?

This tells me that your game isn't very solid in person, and so you rely on a weaker form of communication to get her invested in you. It's a crutch. Let me just put it this way:

Let's say a guy reaches the point where he can get a lot of numbers, but almost all of them flake. He has two options:

1) Learn really good "phone/text" game so that they don't flake anymore.
2) Get better at the initial interaction, work on himself, become a more attractive person.

Option 1 will require learning and practicing a whole new subset of skills and techniques. Now instead of worrying about doing the initial interaction well, he needs to worry about the initial interaction, solid phone/text game and then continuing to game her well on the date until he has sex with her. Chances are, since he spent so much time "gaming her," that it will be harder for a legitimate emotional connection to develop and if he ever starts to really like one of these girls, he will then have to start worrying about more "games," MLTR/FB game, date game, even relationship game, etc.

Option 2 will probably require more effort in the short run, but it will pay off more in the long run. If he develops himself and his identity to a high level, becomes extremely confident and non-needy, he will naturally make a very strong impact on women he meets who are compatible with him. He'll have very strong and meaningful conversations with them quickly and make a great impression. He won't ever have to worry about text/phone game, because the girls will just naturally want to see him so much. He won't have to worry about dates or end game or whatever, because she'll be so excited to hang out with him and go home with him he won't ever have to "game" her beyond the first minute or two. Transitioning into any type of relationship will be natural and seamless because they've already developed so much chemistry.

I went through Option 1. 2005 thru 2008, all I did was post threads like this and obsess over "phone game" and "date game" and all that stuff. Yeah, I got laid a lot. And it was exciting at first. But the effort/reward was not very high. It did not produce very high quality interactions or experiences. The relationships that emerged from them were not exciting or interesting, it was just sex. Which is cool, there's nothing wrong with sex. But there are a lot of ways to get laid that don't require so much mental effort.

Anyway, do what works for you. If you're happy right now with your results and you're getting laid, then that's cool. I imagine too that being a college guy on a college campus requires certain things that a lot of us don't deal with normally. Just realize that just because you've gotten something to work for you that it's not the best way for everyone else or that it's even the best way for you. There could be better ways out there that you're unaware of.

I think eventually, at some point, like most people, you're going to get sick of games and techniques. You're going to get sick of all of the pointless mental masturbation, and you'll likely want to construct an awesome identity and lifestyle for yourself, learn to become genuinely confident and shameless around women, and decide that you're a better man than needing to "game" a girl to get laid. That you deserve women without having to "game" them. When that day comes, I'll still be here. But until then, don't be surprised if the mental masturbation threads like this one aren't very popular.

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This whole text game thing makes no sense in my humble opinion. I grew up in the 70's and 80's we never had mobile phones. How did girls and guys meet back then ?. They certainly didnt have text game or whatever people call it now.