How do you keep your head up despite the negativity? (semi-race thread)

[Reesays]

I notice that quite a few of you guys here are:

1. Older and more mature
2. Well traveled
3. Have copious amounts of experience with relationships and attraction
4. Are established in life

Compared to all of you, I am not that mature. I am only a 19 year old who has spent a huge chunk of his teenage years in the bible belt. Before that I traveled often.

Before I hit the internet, lets just say I was "ignorant" of a lot of things. Being a Brown boy raised down south is an unusual experience. You hear quite a bit of race jokes and racial slurs being aimed at you and at times you do get alienated (I used to think it was just me but it has happened to my Asian and Latino friends).

I am what you would call a "sponge", when I read something I analyze it. Now of course if it is just ONE FORUM I read the BS on I ignore it. Issue is, other than this, I also post on "City Data", see some threads there and in the relationships section it is LITERALLY every single week a thread about:

1. An Asian guy whining about how despite him being fit, having a good personality, being accomplished, etc, he has a hard time with women.
2. A Brown guy doing the same thing.

Now being down here I have realized that when it comes to dating and attracting women, my White friends (some who are shorter and fatter than me) have had an easier time with it than I have. A lot of them have told me themselves that American women (White) will generally stay away from guys who are not White and will only date or marry one if he is very rich, attractive and accomplished. I try to keep a positive outlook but it doesn't work at times.

I have hit the gym, seen a lot of results in my workouts. Have made attempts to be social and hang out with more people. Have managed to get numbers and stuff.

Now before even venturing, after reading all this negativity and being a victim of maltreatment due to being different, I get this thought in my head telling me "why try? why put yourself out there? you will never be able to date an attractive brunette or blonde or redhead.

I try to look for the good in life but after some of the crap I have been through and read and the fact that I have never seen a Brown dude (non-Latin) date a white female, it gets discouraging. Now you may ask ONE QUESTION for me:

"Why do you guys go so crazy over White women?"

Well lets be realistic, in a country where 70 percent of the population is White and being in places where at least half of the female population is gonna be White. It would be asinine to ignore them.

So men, SHARE YOUR WISDOM to this young mind.

[Jon]

Everyone has a voice in the back of their head that says why they can't go for it. If it wasn't race it would be something else. Everybody has it, some people ignore it.

Also, it sounds like you fucking hate your area of the country. You should move. If you don't get much action for a year because you are focused on improving yourself and getting out of dodge, so be it. you will survive.

[Tim]

First of all, of all the absurd forum members we've had here who were fixated on using their race to victimize themselves, this post alone shows that you're more willing than any of them to change your attitude and beliefs. So good on you for that.

Having said that, you're still incredibly negative and self-defeating, and you have an obvious victim mentality. Two things I recommend from here:

This reply from a (non-white) forum member on the largest race thread we had on here:

"I still think the main issue here is less about race, and more about the person's relationship with his bicultural lifestyle. I would assume that a lot of people complaining about race haven't figured out how much of their cultural identity they will embrace, and how much of it they will discard. A related issue (for younger PUAs) is probably a poor relationship with their parents, who become symbols of a culture that the PUA feels is holding him back."

This doesn't exactly fit your scenario, but it brings up a wider point that I think is relevant, which is that I'm guessing your issues with your race aren't solely limited to women and dating. Have a look at how your beliefs about your race and discrimination affect the way you live the rest of your life. Look for inconsistencies in that thinking; where are you blaming discrimination/ your race when the truth is it's something else?

Secondly, read this post if you already haven't:

http://postmasculine.com/you-are-not-a-victim

The thing about the victim mentality is that it is irrelevant as to how much of a victim you really are. Sure, if you're a non-white guy living in the south, or anywhere in the US, then you may have it harder than white guys.

But there's two things:
1) It's never as big as you think it is. Your estimation of how much of a limitation your race is is incredibly biased, and a lot of the time it's a defense mechanism that you use to ignore the fact that you're not doing what you need to do.
2) Even if it is that big, it's irrelevant. You can argue over reality, but you can't change it. We can sit here and you can tell me how hard it is being a non-white in the south, and how little I know about it, blah blah blah. But whether you or I am right is not important. If you believe that no attractive white women are going to ever want to date you, why are you on this forum? We can't change that if it's true. So you're just wasting time arguing with us. But if there's a chance that an attractive white woman will want to date you, we can't change that either. The only way you can find out what is true is to go out there and try and make it happen. And because of your negative beliefs, that's going to be hard. But unless you try your hardest regardless of those beliefs, then you'll never really know if it's true. You'll only prove what is true within the limitations you set yourself.

[Reesays]

well, in a way I think the grass will be greener in california, never lived there but I heard it is pretty common to see attractive women (white) with husbands and boyfriends which are of another color, now whether or not they are brown is a different story but regardless, I think for this PUA you need a pioneer mentality

I have started to think that out there, it is unlikely and basically impossible to find a brown (non-latin) guy with a pretty blonde wife or girlfriend, but I think to myself "you will move out of here, move to california, nail that pretty blonde chick everyone down south told you to keep your hands off of, and while you are doing it you will wink at Jim Crow".

[Mark]

Reesays: You keep referring to yourself as "brown." What's your ethnicity? Indian?

[Reesays]

Mark Wrote:Reesays: You keep referring to yourself as "brown." What's your ethnicity? Indian?

Yes Sir, East Indian.

But down here, Brown includes Latinos, Arabs, in some cases Southern Europeans (a lot of people here don't consider Italians and Spaniards White), and mixed people in some cases too. People just say Brown instead of Indian.

[Mark]

And where in Georgia do you live? Athens?

[Reesays]

Mark Wrote:And where in Georgia do you live? Athens?

I do not live in Athens. I do not want to give out the location of my exact town.

Lets just say it isn't Atlanta or Athens.

[Mark]

But it's small I assume.

Look, it's easy as a white guy who spends most of his time in cities like NYC and London to tell you race doesn't matter, blah, blah, blah. But small town Georgia sucks. I get it.

I think the important thing here is recognize that your troubles and insecurities in this area are environment-dependent and are not objective reality. It's not how the whole world works. You just happen to be stuck in a situation with an inherent social disadvantage working against you. And yeah, it sucks, but everyone's got something working against them. This is yours. So yes, getting out to California and to a big city I'm sure will help you a lot. Race always matters a little, but in big cities it does not matter very much at all.

With that said, what Tim said is spot on. I don't care where you are in the US, there are going to be some educated, curious, and open-minded people. You have no excuse to not go find them. There are far worse places you could live. So you may as well make the best of the situation given to you. If you can manage to make something work there, then it's going to feel like a breeze when you move out of there.

[Reesays]

See Mark, I have been on dates and stuff before. Thing is often it has been with the very few number of Hispanic, Asian, and Black women (somewhat of a large population, I had to complain but most of the ones here are really urban compared to the ones I met in Atlanta and NYC when I traveled).

White women here are literally a no go.

Do you have any word on SEC schools? I do plan on transferring to UGA if it works out.

[Mark]

My guess is the bigger the school, the better it'll be. But you're still in the south, which is never going to help you cause.

Realize that some of your lack of success with white women could be projected as well... for instance, yes, there may be white women there who are less interested in Indians... BUT chances are you also get more self-conscious and nervous around white women, therefore making you behave in less attractive ways. It's a self-defeating cycle.

Like I said, there's no reason to not keep trying... If/when you come across people with a prejudice, just appreciate the fact that their prejudice will remove them from your life.

[Reesays]

well Mark I have heard horror stories about the sorority girls there and how they only date White

I am financially tied down to move anywhere else too. The White girls not being into Indians part, would it be lets say, not as big of an obstacle say in Southern California as it is down here?

Down here it isn't that White women aren't into Indians, it is just that White women ONLY want White guys.

[Mark]

I suggest you read this article over again: http://postmasculine.com/you-are-not-a-victim

Yeah, close-minded people suck. But what are you going to do? Sit here and bitch about it? Or go find people who aren't close minded and stop stereotyping? Because honestly, what you're doing here is just as bad as what those white girls have done to you. You're sitting here stereotyping a group of people based on race. Ask yourself how far that's gotten you recently? People in life have an uncanny way of behaving the way you expect them to behave. You walk around expecting white women to all be prejudice, then you're going to meet white women who are prejudice and see prejudice all around you. Walk around expecting to find open minded, interesting people, and you'll soon find open-minded, interesting people.

There are good people and shitty people anywhere you go. My guess is that if you can't figure that out where you are now, then when you move to SoCal, you're just going to find another excuse to prevent yourself. In Georgia it's, "All the girls like white guys." In SoCal it'll be, "All the girls want guys with nice cars." If you went to NYC it'd be "All the girls want guys with money." Or whatever.

At some point you need to decide if you're going to base your life on other people or base your life on yourself.

Now get moving.

[Reesays]

I understand your point mark. Issue is, a lot of the open minded people who are here that I have met, they are trying to get out and hardly have time for anything other than school and work. I am not developing a defeatist mentality yet.

ALSO, a major blow to me, a lot of the girls here who are 7s and above are

1. White
2. In sororities
3. Are famous for not dating out

Like I have some Black friends who are MORE AMERICAN than me, they basically give me some info about the "type" of White women (and I hate to put them on a pedestal but they are the majority here) who will date out and sorority girls are the type who won't do it EVEN if they wanted to because their "sisters" would hurt them for it.

I mean as I said, I have heard horror stories about SEC schools, doesn't mean I will give up before I walk in but I would love to have an idea of what I am even getting myself into.

[Tim]

Ok, you're starting to enter into a really common pattern of guys who avoid utilizing advice so I'm going to try and stop you right now.

When non-white guys ask on forums about race and discrimination, it usually goes one of two ways. The first is that they turn it into an argument about how discriminated they are, and revel in their victim mentality. This is by far the worse of the two. Studies show that when we are confronted with evidence that goes against our beliefs we do one of two things; either we reevaluate our beliefs in light of this evidence, or we refute the evidence, and our original beliefs are strengthened. So we become more certain, despite evidence to the contrary. These arguments suck to be in, and after the last race thread that blew up on these forums, I refuse to be in one again. All they do is reinforce the beliefs that people already have, and if that's a negative belief then I'm actually doing the other guy a disfavor by arguing with him.

The only way the argument can be constructive is if the other guy is showing some willingness to alter his beliefs in light of the evidence. You're showing some evidence that you want to be that kind of guy, but I'm worried that you're starting to go more towards the second way.

The second way it goes is that the guy shows the appearance of being willing to change his mind, but in reality he's not interested in changing it at all. So to look like he's changing his mind, he'll start to agree with arguments, but then he'll make an exception. So he'll say something like 'yeah, I guess I might succeed if I moved cities, but unfortunately that's not a reality for me now'. Whether he can or can't is irrelevant, he's just looking for whichever road block is most convenient.

The reason guys like you ask questions on forums like these is because deep down you're actually very uncertain about whether or not you can succeed with women. You're self-aware enough to realize that even if you do have things tough, maybe some of the excuses you're making aren't completely accurate. So you jump on here to try and change how you feel about that. Guys on here challenge those beliefs, and they say a lot of stuff that forces the guy to confront a lot of things about himself that he's been avoiding. Things like how he can be successful with women, but it's going to take months or even years of work. Or that he's not attractive to women because he has low self-esteem. Or that he's going to need to be more vulnerable with women if he really wants to be able to connect with them and be fulfilled by them.

And then if you're most guys, that's too difficult to confront, and so you argue back. And all this does is strengthen your beliefs, leaving you more bitter towards women, and feeling like more of a victim. So for a while you stop visiting the forums, and you tell yourself that the guys on here are racist, or that they don't know how hard it really is, etc. But then that doubt creeps back in, and so you post another question, whether it's here or somewhere else, and the cycle continues.

But.

If you're a little smarter, or braver, or self-aware than that, then you'll be able to take an honest look at some of the things guys are saying on here, and realise that maybe that they're right, and what you've thought for so long isn't actually true. And so you start approaching, or you start being more sexually aggressive, or seeing a therapist, or whatever you need to do. Because there is literally only one thing that will truly change your beliefs or your life; action. Discussing things on here is great for uncovering some of those negative beliefs, for finding more positive ones to put in their place, and for guiding you down the path to success with women, but it cannot replace action.

You are in the exact position that many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many guys have been before you. Read all those 'many's' out loud to reinforce that. Like all of those guys, the best thing you can do right now is not to post a reply to this thread, or to open up a new thread asking for advice. The best thing you can do is take one step forward. If you really don't like your city, then move. If you can't move now, then suck it up and figure out the best situation possible for you while you're still living there. Hit on girls you find attractive. If some of them reject you, move on. If some of them don't, then figure out your next move.

I cannot be more clearer than this: do not reply to this thread until 1) you have figured out at least one step you can take to change your life, and 2) you have taken that step/s enough that it has changed your life in some way that is worth reporting back here, no matter how minor it is. Even if it's just approaching one single girl.

[Mark]

Reesays Wrote:I understand your point mark. Issue is, a lot of the open minded people who are here that I have met, they are trying to get out and hardly have time for anything other than school and work. I am not developing a defeatist mentality yet.

ALSO, a major blow to me, a lot of the girls here who are 7s and above are

1. White
2. In sororities
3. Are famous for not dating out

Like I have some Black friends who are MORE AMERICAN than me, they basically give me some info about the "type" of White women (and I hate to put them on a pedestal but they are the majority here) who will date out and sorority girls are the type who won't do it EVEN if they wanted to because their "sisters" would hurt them for it.

I mean as I said, I have heard horror stories about SEC schools, doesn't mean I will give up before I walk in but I would love to have an idea of what I am even getting myself into.

OK, I see how it is. You don't actually want to change anything. You're here to complain and get people to validate the excuses you've made up for yourself.

Let me know when you've gone out and done something to work towards your goals. Until then, I'm done giving you advice.