Confusion girls (First receptive, then not)

[MidnightRun]

Hi,
So I got a girl in my far social circle that is pretty nice. We just see each other and we know that we got some similiar friend.

So three weeks ago I meet her and told her "That I found her really cute and want to get to know her".

She was really happy and agreed. We exchange numbers and that weekend we met. I was just taking her hand, hug her etc. sometimes she was receptive but sometimes not. So I said I will call her.

The next time I call her she didn´t get the phone up. And didn´t call back. Some days later she called. Like nothing happend.

In my earlie PUA days, I would think this is push and pull and play cool. But I don´t like this mind games.

So my point is how to handle girls like this. She seemed very interested in meeting me but she never intiate the contact and now got this communication break between us.

It would be no problem if she doesn´t want to meet again. Maybe she is just polite and don´t want to say things like that.

Thanks for you help.

[Chaos]

Sometimes I get this from girls who are really flirty until I display some kind of interest in them (I'm talking social circle here), then they just act disinterested. I usually regard them as just attention whores who're just looking for validation from me and move on.

That's not to say it's always that way but I've had that situation too and it's really frustrating.

[baller08]

You got it right the first time. This is push/pull. You know what it is? Its not that you guys "don't want to play games". You're just lazy. You don't want to do the dance, go through the seduction process. You just want to show up and have the girl open her legs.

It's a process. She liked you enough to go out with you then you gave her no challenge, no indication of any value, no sexual tension...nothing. You played the boyfriend role right away and she was done.

So many of you guys on this forum think it's a badge of honor to "not do PUA shit". I got news for you, seduction is not a PUA process. Seduction is just our human mating process. You go from one end of the extreme to the other. Stop thinking of it in terms of labels "PUA", "Not PUA", "Day Game", "Direct Game". It's either you understand women or you don't. It's either you're an attractive guy or you're not.

You guys lose more women because you go from one extreme to the other than anything else. It's a game. Get over it.

[MidnightRun]

So your point is that push pull exist in each connection. So this a normal process ?

[Chaos]

Baller, I see your point and I agree with it to some degree, but just to some degree.

For this specific topic and for me, those are "mind games". If I call you and you don't call back then I'm pissed off. If you call me 5 days later and don't even mention an excuse for an apology then I'm even more pissed off... so next.

But that's because if you fail to apologize or to even refer to the incident (when this happens to me I always say, ey sorry I couldn't call you back but...) ... I can only assume the girl is trying to game ME in a less than honest way. The same if she just ignores your texts... she can do it, but you shouldn't be willing to accept that (at least I'm not). And I don't interpret that as push/pull... teasing is push/pull, playing some games is push/pull, maybe even getting you or her a little jealous is push/pull. Not answering a phone call and not acknowledging your doing it is either "mind games" or a lack of education, and thus it shall be rewarded as such.

[baller08]

(04-12-2012 02:41 PM)MidnightRun Wrote:  So your point is that push pull exist in each connection. So this a normal process ?

Yes of course. "Push/pull" is just pick up term that means flirting, teasing, and sexual tension. That's part of the game and seduction process. Don't rob the girl of this part of the game. That's what they live for and what keeps them up at night talking to their girlfriends about you. "He loves me/he loves me not" is lost today because men don't know how to evoke that in women. If you can take a woman there then 90% of the flakes and confusion that most men face today will be gone. She'll be dying to clear her schedule to spend time with you.

But if a girl isn't answering your text or call, that's not "push/pull"...she's not interested so give it 2 shots and move onto another girl. Just learn from your mistake and don't get into boyfriend mode right away and lose all challenge and sexual tension.

You lost her interest during the date. The not returning your text/calls is just the result. As a general rule of thumb, if you lose the girl at a certain stage, it isn't something you did wrong during said stage, it's something you did wrong the stage or two prior.

---

(04-12-2012 03:05 PM)Chaos Wrote:  Baller, I see your point and I agree with it to some degree, but just to some degree.

For this specific topic and for me, those are "mind games". If I call you and you don't call back then I'm pissed off. If you call me 5 days later and don't even mention an excuse for an apology then I'm even more pissed off... so next.

But that's because if you fail to apologize or to even refer to the incident (when this happens to me I always say, ey sorry I couldn't call you back but...) ... I can only assume the girl is trying to game ME in a less than honest way. The same if she just ignores your texts... she can do it, but you shouldn't be willing to accept that (at least I'm not).

At that point you're just talking about standards and having abundance so you don't have to put up with it. Definitely agree with that.

What I was referring to wasn't the girl not returning Midnight Run's text. What I was referring to was that because he had the mindset of "not playing games", I think he came off too easy and too boyfriend-like during the date. He went too far away from playing the game of challenge, creating tension and mystery and while she liked him at first she didn't feel any attraction for him during the date and decide to not date him again.

Would it be nice if women were upfront and said "Hey sorry not feeling it, good luck?" Sure. But that's rare. Women are not raised to be upfront. They send messages through their actions, not words. They generally don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. So if they aren't returning your calls or making meeting up difficult (ie: busy), then they are already telling you they're not or no longer interested.

[FirstAidKit]

(04-12-2012 03:40 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Would it be nice if women were upfront and said "Hey sorry not feeling it, good luck?" Sure. But that's rare. Women are not raised to be upfront. They send messages through their actions, not words. They generally don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. So if they aren't returning your calls or making meeting up difficult (ie: busy), then they are already telling you they're not or no longer interested.

THIS right here, is a classic example of passing off "shit that PEOPLE do" as "shit that WOMEN do". PEOPLE don't like rejecting directly, it's uncomfortable. I don't think I've met a girl who hasn't had the 'slow fade' pulled on her at least once, for girls it's just typically after they've had sex rather than before.

To the post itself - I think it sounds like you came off as a bit clingy on the date. Escalation is important but you need to calibrate physical contact quite carefully with the girl in question - if she's not being receptive to hugs, holding hands, moving away from you, BACK OFF. For me personally, I'm not a big fan of PDA, especially in the daytime and when I don't know the guy very well. If someone kept trying to initiate it when I wasn't receiving it well I would be put off.

[Schmechti]

(04-12-2012 01:06 PM)Chaos Wrote:  Sometimes I get this from girls who are really flirty until I display some kind of interest in them (I'm talking social circle here), then they just act disinterested. I usually regard them as just attention whores who're just looking for validation from me and move on.

That's not to say it's always that way but I've had that situation too and it's really frustrating.

I can absolute relate to that. You get all kind of signals of interests, she is flirting with you all the time, and as soon as you communicate interest in her, she acts disinterested.

Maybe these kind of reactions belong to the shy girls.

[FirstAidKit]

(04-12-2012 05:40 PM)Schmechti Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 01:06 PM)Chaos Wrote:  Sometimes I get this from girls who are really flirty until I display some kind of interest in them (I'm talking social circle here), then they just act disinterested. I usually regard them as just attention whores who're just looking for validation from me and move on.

That's not to say it's always that way but I've had that situation too and it's really frustrating.

I can absolute relate to that. You get all kind of signals of interests, she is flirting with you all the time, and as soon as you communicate interest in her, she acts disinterested.

Maybe these kind of reactions belong to the shy girls.

Aaah, I've been totally guilty of this one. It's not all my fault, I swear! There are reasons!

Due to what I study and where I've worked, I've typically had male heavy or even split social circles. I'm also really friendly, and I get really into conversations about interesting things, and these social circles are full of interesting people. I've several times been really interested in talking to someone and had them take it as flirting... and when they express interest (especially if I wasn't expecting it - I react badly to things being sprung on me) I back WAY off, sometimes overcompensating and coming off as standoffish.

[baller08]

(04-12-2012 05:34 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 03:40 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Would it be nice if women were upfront and said "Hey sorry not feeling it, good luck?" Sure. But that's rare. Women are not raised to be upfront. They send messages through their actions, not words. They generally don't want to hurt the guy's feelings. So if they aren't returning your calls or making meeting up difficult (ie: busy), then they are already telling you they're not or no longer interested.

THIS right here, is a classic example of passing off "shit that PEOPLE do" as "shit that WOMEN do". PEOPLE don't like rejecting directly, it's uncomfortable. I don't think I've met a girl who hasn't had the 'slow fade' pulled on her at least once, for girls it's just typically after they've had sex rather than before.

Exactly. And if I'm on a woman's forum and a woman ask, "I slept with this guy and then he stopped returning my text and calls", I would have told her the reason(s) why and to try to help her understand from a male way of behavior and thinking.

However, in this case I was answering the OP and being specific to his area of development because he (along with about 80% of the guys on this forum) would not dream of not returning a text or call from a pretty girl. It wouldn't even dawn on them to not answer. So while what you said is true in a general sense, most of the guys on a forum like this can't relate because they would never not return a girl's call.

[Pineapple]

(04-12-2012 06:11 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  Aaah, I've been totally guilty of this one. It's not all my fault, I swear! There are reasons!

Due to what I study and where I've worked, I've typically had male heavy or even split social circles. I'm also really friendly, and I get really into conversations about interesting things, and these social circles are full of interesting people. I've several times been really interested in talking to someone and had them take it as flirting... and when they express interest (especially if I wasn't expecting it - I react badly to things being sprung on me) I back WAY off, sometimes overcompensating and coming off as standoffish.

I'm glad you posted this, since I've always wondered the actual reason why some girls act interested and then back off the minute you show any interest. My response has always been to back off and move on regardless, but its nice to get some sort of explanation.

[baller08]

Pineapple -

What FAK posted, I would say all women can relate to. This only happens when...

1) The guy has no experience so he mistakens friendliness for "interested".
2) The guy doesn't know how to display value or generate attraction and even if the girl started off thinking, "hmm...maybe..." by the end of the conversation and/or 1st date it's a definite "No".

Women are a hell of a lot more intuitive than men...so they know when you become too needy and too interested without any actual interest from her. When she is standoffish and doesn't return your text and you continue to try, that only further proves that her initial intuition was correct about you, namely a guy that doesn't "get it".

[Chaos]

(04-12-2012 06:11 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  Aaah, I've been totally guilty of this one. It's not all my fault, I swear! There are reasons

You'll burn in hell for this!!! Nemesis!!

[baller08]

(04-12-2012 08:07 PM)Chaos Wrote:  

(04-12-2012 06:11 PM)FirstAidKit Wrote:  Aaah, I've been totally guilty of this one. It's not all my fault, I swear! There are reasons

You'll burn in hell for this!!! Nemesis!!

What Chaos meant to say was, "Thank you for that reasonable clarification" and that he no longer harbors any ill will towards you or your gender.

[Matt II]

@ FirstAidKit: Would you agree though that it is very hard for the male to distinguish between sexual interest and platonic interest? Basically the only thing one can do from a male perspective is polarize and wait for her reaction. This ALWAYS entails the risk of rejection and the women feeling a bit overwhelmed.

[FirstAidKit]

(04-14-2012 07:11 AM)Matt II Wrote:  @ FirstAidKit: Would you agree though that it is very hard for the male to distinguish between sexual interest and platonic interest? Basically the only thing one can do from a male perspective is polarize and wait for her reaction. This ALWAYS entails the risk of rejection and the women feeling a bit overwhelmed.

I think it differs from girl to girl - I guess I'm quite hard because I pretty much need that platonic interest as well as sexual interest (Can't fuck anyone I can't talk to, Well, I can, but it doesn't do a lot for me, so I don't.). Some people are going to have different criteria. Keep an eye out for her touching you is probably the easiest way to spot it. It it happens a lot, you're probably in there...

But basically, no. There is no rejection free way to hit on someone... but in my opinion, you can't 'lose her' at this point, because you never had her, you just punctured the illusion of having her.

[Thor]

So if a girl does act standoffish and doesn't return your text and you continue to try is that needy ? I mean how do you play the game them ?.

Do you wait a few days send her another text ? Do you flirt with her ? or do you engage with her and tell her to stop acting like alittle child ??

(04-12-2012 08:06 PM)baller08 Wrote:  Pineapple -

What FAK posted, I would say all women can relate to. This only happens when...

1) The guy has no experience so he mistakens friendliness for "interested".
2) The guy doesn't know how to display value or generate attraction and even if the girl started off thinking, "hmm...maybe..." by the end of the conversation and/or 1st date it's a definite "No".

Women are a hell of a lot more intuitive than men...so they know when you become too needy and too interested without any actual interest from her. When she is standoffish and doesn't return your text and you continue to try, that only further proves that her initial intuition was correct about you, namely a guy that doesn't "get it".

[Chaos]

Oldguy, you next her and move on with your life.