Being needy with certain women

[Trickster]

I know mark talks about how PUA tactics will only mask neediness for a short period of time, but I've noticed something within myself that's a little disconcerting. I've made it a long way in terms of how I interact with women. Often times I'll go out with a woman on the first, second, or third dates and they'll be pining to see me again. But I've noticed that when I meet a woman who fits my qualifications for an "ideal girl" I start to buy into this fantasy - of having her as my girlfriend, of us being together, and of us being long term.

Recently I was going out with this girl who was like that: she's smart, attractive, we liked the same things, and she liked me. As we kept on dating, I started to overinvest emotionally and this led to me acting out with needy behaviors that I thought I had gotten past. I returned to old bad habits like obsessing about text replies. Before I knew it, my anxiety was out of control, and of course, she ended up being turned off by my behavior and it ended. My question is a) in your experience, is this a normal part of the growing pains of getting better? b) are there any strategies to keep this anxiety in check and to control emotional investment? And, probably less important c) have you ever f'd it up with a woman only to come back later on and pick up where you left off?

[Leo]

So, you are needy with girls that you like? That's the challenge bro. It's hard to don't be needy when you like the girl. I've been saying this for years but here it comes again: think how you behave when you interact with a girl that you don't like that much. You just don't care about the outcome, when we interact with a girl that we like a lot we care too much and we become needy: we try to please her way too much and that's not attractive. We behave like we need her to be happy and we forget we have to make ourselves happy.
I hope this helps.

[Trickster]

Yeah it's tough because being overly emotionally invested leads to needy behavior and sometimes you can't help it. In the moment, your neediness manifests itself in ways you can't control (or at least, I can't control). Is the solution just not to get invested in the first place? But how?

[Leo]

Well, this is an advice that my sister and my therapist gave me: Remember that she has flaws and some of them are not gonna be comfortable for you. You REALLY need to get to know her better, don't put her on a pedestal, etc. IMHO infatuation is the drive force to pursue her but at the same time it's not totally real, don't let it control you, don't idealize her. And think how you behave when you interact with a girl that you don't like, do you expect her to make you happy? To make you feel special? No, you just get to know her. I know it's easier said than done but I think it's a matter of balance. Always remember there are a lot more specials girls out there. You have to stop caring about the outcome.

[Halo Effect]

When we judge something to be very important, it's natural to become anxious over it. Guys with no AA don't have malfunctioning fear responses, they just interpret the potential rejection to be no big deal, for example.

Sounds like you now believe that with normal girls, it's not that important if things work out. There's more girls like her, no bad consequences if it ends, etc. In other words, no scarcity, not that important. But it seems like you still believe in the scarcity of "great" girls. They still seem important. Maybe you believe, at some level, that girls like that are very rare (scarcity, therefore this interaction is very important. It must work out! -> anxiety). Or maybe you believe that what a great girl thinks of you is important, and telling of what other great girls would think of you. So even though average girls like you, if this great girl doesn't, then it's devastating because it means that you're unattractive to great girls in general.

Those are irrational beliefs, but they may be operating unconsciously to give you your anxiety or needines.

[Trickster]

Halo Effect Wrote:When we judge something to be very important, it's natural to become anxious over it. Guys with no AA don't have malfunctioning fear responses, they just interpret the potential rejection to be no big deal, for example.

Sounds like you now believe that with normal girls, it's not that important if things work out. There's more girls like her, no bad consequences if it ends, etc. In other words, no scarcity, not that important. But it seems like you still believe in the scarcity of "great" girls. They still seem important. Maybe you believe, at some level, that girls like that are very rare (scarcity, therefore this interaction is very important. It must work out! -> anxiety). Or maybe you believe that what a great girl thinks of you is important, and telling of what other great girls would think of you. So even though average girls like you, if this great girl doesn't, then it's devastating because it means that you're unattractive to great girls in general.

Those are irrational beliefs, but they may be operating unconsciously to give you your anxiety or needines.

Thank you for this insight, it put things in a great perspective.

[SeXyBaCk]

Can't offer any real advice since I don't know the feeling.

But my common sense tells me being aware of your own needy behaviour is a first step. You catch yourself being needy, which allows you to slap some sense into you and stop yourself. You're owning up to being needy which is the first step to any recovery, admitting it to yourself (and others).

You gotta quit the overanalysing...starting with the text messages. they're limited to 128 characters or something. There's nothing to analyse in them. They're solely administrative.

[Alvar]

I used to have this problem. I am not sure am quite over it, yet. Last June I had a girl totally fascinated with me the night we met, and just by virtue of my "smart" texting I turned her off. In fact, I felt the same at times with the girl I'm now seeing, although I've managed to keep it under control. These two girls are very, very similar.
I think there's two things going on here:

- the first is neediness. Please refer to Brian's topic here. You need to start letting go, you need to allow yourself to be vulnerable. That means that you'll screw up, you'll say wrong things and may loose the girl.

- the other issue is the pedestal where you've put her. You need to take this girl down. In the short term that my mean understanding that she has flaws, and deliberately taking note of those flaws. She has them, we all have them.
But you need to work on this idea of "ideal girl". There is no such thing. You need to understand at a deeper level that it takes time to know another person and that is a very long process of discovery.

[SeXyBaCk]

RE texting, I always say to the woman right from the start I'm no texter. I can't stand it. Even with the smart phones it's still rather fiddly. If you want something,call. The only times texting is acceptable is when youre in a very loud place or in a meeting, otherwise call. I don't carry my phone with me everywhere i go, if it rings i hear it, texts i won't see until hours later. Also the radiation is bad for your balls. The battery can explode any minute. Don't carry that shit on your body. Some Korean fellow died after his cellphone battery exploded in his shirt pocket.

Now call me old fashioned and what not but at least when I'm called it happens for a reason. None of this "she's bored on the bus and just wants my attention". Read a book, or a magazine. Or these text-checking-up-on-you. Late night texts? the worst kind. You either want to sleep or you want to pillow talk, you don't want to be punching tiny buttons or pushing some display. Don't ever attempt conversations over texts, it's never ending. Also whatever you text, even if it's mindless, she's going ot keep it and shove it in your face at some point, so just don't do it. Save yourself the hassle, and the time. A ten minute text conversation with 16 messages can be avoided with a 40 second phone call. Texting is avoiding real interaction.