Another thread about Amoging.

[Creatine Dreams]

Ok, so the thread title is misleading because I don't really want to learn silly manipulation techniques in order to assert my dominance over other males.
But I do want to learn the proper way to deal with people who are tying to assert their dominance over me. And I want to do so in a proper and respectful way. A couple of examples.

1. If I am out with a girl and a dude starts hitting on her, what should I do?
Put my arm around her? Is it the girl's job to let him know that she is not interested? Should I do nothing and let the dude hit on a girl I am with, let the dude get her number and write the girl off? Or, should I just tell the dude to fuck off? I don't really want to exercise the last option. Not that I am scared of most dudes but simply because it seems immature and lame.

2. What do you do when a guy touches you inappropriately? In the past I had a friend who used to come up and sock me. Eventually, I just socked him back way harder and that put an end to that. Nowadays, I know this one kid who will fuck with my hat or touch my hair. He is way smaller and I do not really feel like hitting him. Is there any better way to deal with this type of thing? I don't like people touching me in ways that I feel are inappropriate.

3. Sometimes, at the bar, I will drink cider. I like it. I also drink whiskey.
One time this acquaintance asked me what I was drinking and I said cider. He sneered at me and said "Oh your drinking cider" like I was some kind of pussy. I said "I will fight you!" in a joking manner and that shut him up.

I am pretty sure I can beat up a lot of people who try to Amog me or whatever you want to call it but I do not want to resort to violence or threats of violence. I am just looking for a classy and mature way to stand up for myself. Any thoughts?

[FirstAidKit]

I don't know about 1 or 3, but a good tactic for unwanted touching is when they reach out, just hold their wrist and go "Stop that" - not aggressively or anything, but firmly. Continue the interaction as normal.

[Tim]

Ok, first off.

1. Don't use the term amogging ever. Don't even THINK it. Going about with the mindset that guys are trying to assert their dominance is going to mean you encounter it all the time.
2. If you're always going to places where guys are trying to assert their dominance, stop going to those places.

To answer your questions more specifically.

1. If some dude hits on your girl, let her deal with it. She'll probably tell him to go away before long, and if she doesn't, why are you on a date with her? If she tells him to go away and he doesn't, then you should step in.
2. I know that type of guy, and sometimes I've been that type of guy. You know what works really well? Ask if you can speak to him privately and then tell him straight up that you don't like him touching you, and could he please refrain from it in future. Be perfectly respectful, but make it clear that's not acceptable.
3. I hate whiskey. You don't think I'm a man? I don't give a shit.

EOS.

[Creatine Dreams]

Hey Tim, thanks for the advice.

I don't think that people are always trying to assert their dominance over me. I just want to be able to deal with it properly on the rare occassions it does happen.

As far as amogging goes, yeah I think that term is stupid. It was just a quick and easy way to describe what was going on.

Also, what do you do when strangers touch you inappropriately or try to give you a nickname? Pull them aside and respectfully tell them to stop?

[Tim]

Well it's very rare that something like that happens to me. I generally feel respected by all the people I hang out with and most of the time we all understand what we are each willing to accept from one another. If someone gives me a nickname then unless I feel it's really insulting or demeaning, I'm just going to take it as a joke.

If someone did do something I didn't like, I would take them aside and very openly tell them I didn't like it. I would explain that it made me feel disrespected, and could they refrain from it in future. No need to get angry or to attack them, just tell them that you don't see that as acceptable.

Most guys who worry about being respected by other guys don't realise that whether people respect you comes down to more than just the other person. It's about how you view yourself; if you respect yourself then you expect that from others. Similarly, if you treat others with respect, you will almost certainly receive it in return. And when you don't, then if you have self-respect then you will deal with that situation maturely, or walk away from it if you realize you can't change it.

[CHB2]

As far as drinking cider, the other night I was out with my buddy and we had gotten some whipped cream vodka (yeah, go ahead judge me, haha) and the girls we were talking to tried making fun of us, so I just owned up to it and made it seem like they were the ones missing out. If they complain about you having cider just say something to the effect of "yeah, I am drinking cider, it is great, you should try it sometime"

As far as people touching you, you can try to old Game-era "Hands off the merchandise", or other similar joking thing. If that doesn't do it than I agree that the best course of action is taking them aside and telling them that you do not like being touched. Just don't do anything that could escalate things - no reason to get in a fight just because someone touched you.

[Mark]

Quote:As far as drinking cider, the other night I was out with my buddy and we had gotten some whipped cream vodka (yeah, go ahead judge me, haha) and the girls we were talking to tried making fun of us, so I just owned up to it and made it seem like they were the ones missing out. If they complain about you having cider just say something to the effect of "yeah, I am drinking cider, it is great, you should try it sometime"

This is a good example of vulnerability. People can only offend you if you let them. They can only hurt you if you're trying to protect yourself. Stop protecting yourself and suddenly they can't hurt you.

[Zac]

Most of my first year I spent not ever drinking at all when I was out. I found this was a pretty big advantage (for myself).

Something else I found is how many people give you shit if they find out all you are drinking is water. You can defend yourself all night, or you can just laugh it off and enjoy your water.

My favorite drink at this bar I go to is a blackberry lemonade. It's purple, has sugar on the rim, and there are blackberries in it. People give me shit for that all the time. I just say it's delicious with a smile and enjoy it. People often laugh about it because that's just me being myself and they respect me more because I do what I want and obviously don't care what people think about it one way or the other.

Don't let people make you feel bad or get defensive over what tastes good to you, what you like, or anything else. Just be yourself and be happy with it and don't feel the need to defend it to anyone.

[Salaam]

This is actually another boundary thread in a way, but calm and non-reactive is the best attitude to have in these situations. You can assert yourself without being aggressive.

I agree with Tim on #2, dealing with that person in isolation allows you to get your point across without the other guy worrying about "looking weak" for changing his behavior. I actually had to deal with this exact thing in the gym recently, with a younger guy who liked to play around and push at you or punch your shoulder. I didn't handle it calmly though, an adrenaline rush hit me and I got in his face and told him I don't play around like that, and that if he touched me again I'd kill him... don't do that. We're actually pretty good friends now though.

And I personally hate alcohol, think it tastes like shit and don't like the high. I never get shit from it though, just people wanting to get me drunk, like its a personal challenge for'em.

[Zelazny]

Heh, no great love of beer here either. On cold days, I'll be drinking tea or even a hot chocolate if I feel like it. A lot of people seemed to think that was wussy, but I'd just retort with "A real man drinks what he wants" and enjoy my chocolate. Hmmm..

[Mark]

You know, reviving this thread reminded me of an experience I had a couple months ago. I was out with the girl I was dating and I was at the bar buying drinks. She was standing right behind me. Some guy came up behind her and started chatting her up, getting very flirty. I didn't even turn around, for a few reasons: 1) I know she likes me a lot, and if she likes me as much as I think she does, then I have nothing to worry about, 2) just because a guy is talking to my girl does not mean he's "AMOGing" me or trying to be more dominant than me -- this an extremely paranoid and insecure way to view people. Chances are he didn't even know she was with me or he's just being really friendly, or maybe he knows someone she knows or whatever.

Anyway, I get the drinks, pay, turn around and give her drink to her and calmly introduce myself to the guy. The guy's attitude immediately shifted from being very flirty to being friendly but non-flirty. He then asked her how she knew me. She said that I was her boyfriend (even though I wasn't). He immediately looks at me and apologizes. I tell him not to worry about it (seriously, I didn't care). He tells me my girlfriend is very beautiful and I'm very lucky. I agree with him, she is beautiful and I am lucky. He then apologizes again and walks away.

This same sequence happens to me probably five to 10 times each year, usually with different girls.

Now, had I been super nervous or felt a need to "defend" my girl from him, chances are I would have come off as weak and insecure. And the thing about coming off as weak and insecure, is that the guy is then going to think he has a chance. After all, if he didn't have a shot at her, I wouldn't be worried, would I? But since I'm so worried about it, obviously he's got a legitimate shot.

Let the girl handle it. If she likes you, she'll take care of it. If she doesn't get rid of him, then you know she never really liked you that much, or she's manipulative and catty. Either way, no good. The ONLY time I take action is when she tries to blow him off, but he won't leave. For instance if she says, "well, my date and I are going to get back to our drinks, nice meeting you," and he ignores it and keeps talking to us. THAT is when I step in and do something.

And what do I do?

Gently take her by the hand and walk away.

In the seven years since finding PUA, I've been in an "amogging" situation maybe three times ever. And I've dealt with hundreds of guys at this point. AMOGging (or viewing it as AMOGing or a competition for dominance) is paranoid and insecure. Treat guys with respect. Treat your girl with respect. Trust her to stay with you, and 99% of the time, things work out fine. And in that 1% where it doesn't? Just take her by the hand and walk to the other side of the bar. Problem solved.

[Tim]

It's one of those things where if you look for it, you'll find it. Unsurprising it emerged in the PUA community, where a lot of guys are very insecure around other men, and see them as competition.

What I find most offensive about it is how patronizing it is towards women. It implies that the minute a more dominant, aggressive guy comes along she's going to jump ship from you to him. But she can't help it, she's just a woman! So you've got to assert your Alpha frame, and destroy the AMOG! Urgh.

[Jean DeCuir]

Well, I love this forum. Postmasculine is totally rad because it was the only seduction related website i found that told me not to repress my emotions and be okay with that. I fully respect the doctrine at this website a lot.

But if there's something i don't like at this website is the fact that you fully reject every single PUA related term or technique in here. I'm probably gona get either crucified or ignored but, well, here's my view on the subject, Creatine Dreams:

- First of all, the term "AMOGGING" is stupid as fuck. It's really fucking overrated. Some guys think that being Alpha is about walking arround teasing others guys. That only shows insecurity and stupidity in general.

- Most of the guys at the pick up community are CLUELESS on how to deal with guys. That's because they don't approach mixed groups consistently. No wonder they act insecure when another guy flirts with their girl.

- However, IGNORING COMPETITION = EPIC FAIL. I tell you what: There were times where i lost girls to competition. Girls i truly cared about. Doesn't happen often but it fucking hurts! And i can garantee that whenever a girls flakes on you or whenever something goes wrong there's a more or less probability there is other guy arround. So you better keep an eye on other guys.

- Befriending other guys is the right thing to do but what if the guy is a total douche? You try to shake his hand he ignores you, you ask his name he says "NO!"... well, fuck it, right? Yup! I don't care either! Just take her and fucking save some of the wedding cake, right? It happent to me before, i didn't care but the truth is that he blew my chances with a girl i wanted. That's not cool! I want her and i'll have her! If there's an obstcle then shit has to be done. Stop picturing this shit in termos of insecurity. Feel free to psychanalyse me. You call me insecure, i call it efficiency.

- Amogging is indirect. Those guys who just say bullshit about your mom and other 6th grade amogs are those who are disrespectful and tend to burn themselfs down. Amog is about asking her to present him to you and then act distracted and let him with his hand on the hair. That, if you feel like he's a douche and won't befriend you or respect you. It's subtle. Amoging directly is usualy epic fail.

- Rule number one of amogging is be more interesting and fun. That comes first! ALWAYS!

[Edmond Dantès]

(06-22-2012 04:42 PM)Tim Wrote:  It's one of those things where if you look for it, you'll find it. Unsurprising it emerged in the PUA community, where a lot of guys are very insecure around other men, and see them as competition.

What I find most offensive about it is how patronizing it is towards women. It implies that the minute a more dominant, aggressive guy comes along she's going to jump ship from you to him. But she can't help it, she's just a woman! So you've got to assert your Alpha frame, and destroy the AMOG! Urgh.

Does this count for "shittests" as well? Heard that term yesterday and I had to laugh out loud, because I haven't heard it since a long time and I don't think in these terms anymore nor do I experience "shittest situations" anymore.

Oh and about that bar situation, when a guy is hitting on your girl. I see it now the same way as Mark. If she reacts to it and engages in a long flirt with him, while I'm on a date with her , she's not worth it anyway...and it's time to dump her and have an nice evening anyway...

[Zac]

Quote:However, IGNORING COMPETITION = EPIC FAIL. I tell you what: There were times where i lost girls to competition. Girls i truly cared about. Doesn't happen often but it fucking hurts!

They weren't going to stay yours anyway.


Also, no one is advocating being nice to a douchy guy. It is pretty easy to be a nice guy and let someone showcase how douchy they really are. Now if you are with a girl who respects you at all in the first place, this is a no brainer. Just chill, be nice, and if you don't like how someone is treating you just remove yourself from the situation. If the girl would rather stay with mcdouchington, well I mean, why were you with that girl again?

Quote: Rule number one of amogging is be more interesting and fun. That comes first! ALWAYS!

Sounds try hard. I'd rather just be myself and see how it goes. I'm pretty confident that if I like a girl and she likes me no random guy is going to tool me out of our feelings towards each other.

Quote:It happent to me before, i didn't care but the truth is that he blew my chances with a girl i wanted. That's not cool! I want her and i'll have her!

Seems like you are willing to jump through hoops to get women that might not even be that interested in you. That's your choice, I'm not going to psychoanalyze it, I'm just not going to do it myself.


In furtherance, I've always let my actual girlfriends be flirted with. I think it's nice they get the self esteem boost. I know who they are going home with.

[Mark]

(06-22-2012 04:50 PM)Edmond Dantès Wrote:  Does this count for "shittests" as well? Heard that term yesterday and I had to laugh out loud, because I haven't heard it since a long time and I don't think in these terms anymore nor do I experience "shittest situations" anymore.

Yes.

http://postmasculine.com/shit-test-paranoia

Quote:Oh and about that bar situation, when a guy is hitting on your girl. I see it now the same way as Mark. If she reacts to it and engages in a long flirt with him, while I'm on a date with her , she's not worth it anyway...and it's time to dump her and have an nice evening anyway...

Yes, and ironically, when you believe this and behave this way, she senses it usually ends up scurrying right back to you.

[Mark]

Quote:- However, IGNORING COMPETITION = EPIC FAIL. I tell you what: There were times where i lost girls to competition. Girls i truly cared about. Doesn't happen often but it fucking hurts! And i can garantee that whenever a girls flakes on you or whenever something goes wrong there's a more or less probability there is other guy arround. So you better keep an eye on other guys.

- Befriending other guys is the right thing to do but what if the guy is a total douche? You try to shake his hand he ignores you, you ask his name he says "NO!"... well, fuck it, right? Yup! I don't care either! Just take her and fucking save some of the wedding cake, right? It happent to me before, i didn't care but the truth is that he blew my chances with a girl i wanted. That's not cool! I want her and i'll have her! If there's an obstcle then shit has to be done. Stop picturing this shit in termos of insecurity. Feel free to psychanalyse me. You call me insecure, i call it efficiency.

This is where I disagree with you. If some random stranger can "blow your chances" with a girl, then you never really had a chance with her to begin with.

If a guy is being obnoxious or disrespectful towards you or her, then just take her by the hand and walk away. Seriously... if you stay there and try to compete or "hold your ground" or out-alpha him or whatever, you're going to make you both look like idiots. Just walk away. If she asks why you moved her, just say, "I just wanted to be alone with you." Problem solved.

[Creatine Dreams]

Lol, this is like Popeye and Brutus shit...

[SeXyBaCk]

*frowns, rolls eyes, walks away shaking head slowly while grinning*

[barney stintson]

(06-22-2012 02:53 PM)Mark Wrote:  Anyway, I get the drinks, pay, turn around and give her drink to her and calmly introduce myself to the guy. The guy's attitude immediately shifted from being very flirty to being friendly but non-flirty. He then asked her how she knew me. She said that I was her boyfriend (even though I wasn't). He immediately looks at me and apologizes. I tell him not to worry about it (seriously, I didn't care). He tells me my girlfriend is very beautiful and I'm very lucky. I agree with him, she is beautiful and I am lucky. He then apologizes again and walks away.

Hey Mark,

was this by chance at Whiskey's in Boston?
I'm a indian guy and i swear a similar occurrence happened to me with someone that strongly resembled you. Though it happened before i knew what you looked like.