Aaron Sleazy - Cold Approach Pretty Much Useless

[TheBoss]

Way to take things out of context Sleazy. All Mark said was that he approaches women that he is interested in, even if she doesn't give him a signal.

[Alvar]

Aaron choose to read Mark's statement all wrong. He is either retarded, intellectually dishonest, pretty bad at controlling his emotions or all of the above. He reviewed Models, he should well know that Mark endorses demographics and seeking girls that will be receptive to you. Any person of average intelligence understands that Mark is saying that he approaches for himself, not based on an expected outcome and that, acting in function of his desires, is part of what makes him attractive.

I think that this post is actually a positive recommendation to Mark. Not all of Aaron's readers are looking for excuses not to face their AA and those sentences may resonate with some of his readers

[Moody]

So, Sleazys theory is, you can't do anything to get a woman's attention, if she doesn't like you because of your looks. You can see his other post about the subject here: http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.de/2012/04/g...ystem.html In the end, so he means, you can only get girls who have a lower or nearly similar class of looks. If there are any expectations, he relegates to this theory: http://www.seductionmyth.com/reality_check/her-type/

Interesting topic, I think. So, in this case it's important to know what scientifical researchs are saying about it and if it's possible to increase your "success-rate" by train your communication skills. If not, every seduction theory would be pretty much useless and it's only a numbers game, because people would rationalize their emotional connection which would be founded in their type compatibility for each other.

In the other hand, Sleazy is saying, it's better to have a good social circle and decent activities where you meet sexy women instead of approaching every day for 3 hours ("sarging") to get some girls through randomness ("Numbers Game"), which every pick up would be. And in this special scenario, he's kinda right. But I think it would be much better to differenciate between a guy who approach some girls when being on the way to a buddy or a party and a PickUp guy who has "sarging" as a hobby.

[sledgehammer]

(04-18-2012 01:07 AM)Moody Wrote:  So, Sleazys theory is, you can't do anything to get a woman's attention, if she doesn't like you because of your looks. You can see his other post about the subject here: http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.de/2012/04/g...ystem.html In the end, so he means, you can only get girls who have a lower or nearly similar class of looks. If there are any expectations, he relegates to this theory: http://www.seductionmyth.com/reality_check/her-type/

Interesting topic, I think. So, in this case it's important to know what scientifical researchs are saying about it and if it's possible to increase your "success-rate" by train your communication skills. If not, every seduction theory would be pretty much useless and it's only a numbers game, because people would rationalize their emotional connection which would be founded in their type compatibility for each other.

In the other hand, Sleazy is saying, it's better to have a good social circle and decent activities where you meet sexy women instead of approaching every day for 3 hours ("sarging") to get some girls through randomness ("Numbers Game"), which every pick up would be. And in this special scenario, he's kinda right. But I think it would be much better to differenciate between a guy who approach some girls when being on the way to a buddy or a party and a PickUp guy who has "sarging" as a hobby.

I dont get that 2nd article at all. Its simply saying that looks are everything and you basicly need to be a good looking guy (good facial features, masculine, symmetry, tall etc) to fuck alot of hot girls.

Yet I see some of my friends who are very very AVERAGE or even UGLY (Dont worry, I have a VERY good understanding of what science says is "good looks") who fuck ALOT of HOT women every damn weekend, WAY MORE than me even tho I am atleast 2-3 points higher than them on the scale, and very well-trained and fit.

[Jack Sparrow]

One thing we all need to be mindful on these internet forum is that everyone here is wired differently, and everyone comes from different place, different background.

There are guys who do not get bored with repeating the same opening line. These guys like the order and the predictability of these types of interaction. Then there are guys like me who relish on being spontaneous, thinking of things to say on the fly. Then there is a whole middle ground.

You have to find where you are on this spectrum, and decide how much routine you can tolerate and how important they are to you. I like The Question Game because I get to know girls quickly at a deeper level, on the other hand, I hate repeating the same story over and over again.

Same goes with Social Circle vs Cold Approach..

If you are a 18 y/o freshmen in a big university, you should spend 99% of your effort on developing social circle. You should be in a fraternity, throwing parties. You can join a band, a film crew, clubs. You have years to develop your interests and skills in hobbies that may involve a lot of hot girls.

If you are 40 y/o it's unlikely that you will have 25 y/o hot babes in your social circle. Also to learn a few hobbies in order to meet women is unlikely to yield high level results.

Remember 1 of the 3 laws of Tao of Steve - "Be excellent".

The Yoga instructor is gonna be banging hot yoga girls. The deer in the headlight newbie who cannot bend over to touch his toes is not gonna get with the hot yoga babe.

The world renowned photographer is gonna be sleeping with supermodel. They guy who bought a DSLR and took a few photography class is only gonna run into a few chubby model wanna be girls.

In conclusion, read people's post carefully. Don't be too ready to reject, accept or criticize. Instead, say.... "What parts of this post really apply to someone with my personality, in my situation??"

[Warped Mindless]

I find it funny when Sleazy talks about how important looks are considering he is one of the most average looking dudes on the face of the planet. Every single person who I know that knows what this guy looks like all agrees that he is average. He has deluded himself into thinking he has male model caliber looks.

[Mark]

Sleazy seems to have a knack for taking quotes out of context to stir up controversy for attention. Oh well... I don't really care. Like I said on another thread, I really, really, really don't care what these pick up guys talk about anymore. I'm happy with my results. The vast majority of my readers are happy with their results. That's all I could ever ask for. Silly internet "debates" like this have no interest for me.

[Zac]

He is making these outlandish statements like not to cold approach and that it's useless. He is digging through forums of other websites for quotes from other people to create content to stir up more stuff without even linking back to it or saying where he got it from.

I've never really read this guy before. I hadn't heard of him. He seems like kind of a joke.

I hope he copies this onto his blog.

[crazyhorse]

(04-18-2012 01:31 AM)sledgehammer Wrote:  

(04-18-2012 01:07 AM)Moody Wrote:  So, Sleazys theory is, you can't do anything to get a woman's attention, if she doesn't like you because of your looks. You can see his other post about the subject here: http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.de/2012/04/g...ystem.html In the end, so he means, you can only get girls who have a lower or nearly similar class of looks. If there are any expectations, he relegates to this theory: http://www.seductionmyth.com/reality_check/her-type/

Interesting topic, I think. So, in this case it's important to know what scientifical researchs are saying about it and if it's possible to increase your "success-rate" by train your communication skills. If not, every seduction theory would be pretty much useless and it's only a numbers game, because people would rationalize their emotional connection which would be founded in their type compatibility for each other.

In the other hand, Sleazy is saying, it's better to have a good social circle and decent activities where you meet sexy women instead of approaching every day for 3 hours ("sarging") to get some girls through randomness ("Numbers Game"), which every pick up would be. And in this special scenario, he's kinda right. But I think it would be much better to differenciate between a guy who approach some girls when being on the way to a buddy or a party and a PickUp guy who has "sarging" as a hobby.

I dont get that 2nd article at all. Its simply saying that looks are everything and you basicly need to be a good looking guy (good facial features, masculine, symmetry, tall etc) to fuck alot of hot girls.

Yet I see some of my friends who are very very AVERAGE or even UGLY (Dont worry, I have a VERY good understanding of what science says is "good looks") who fuck ALOT of HOT women every damn weekend, WAY MORE than me even tho I am atleast 2-3 points higher than them on the scale, and very well-trained and fit.

Sledgehammer you missed the point with the seductionmyth article. It stated that scientific research has shown that people are attracted to people with similar shaped faces. I havn't checked out the book though, but it seems interesting. They were just fighting against he notion of "you can create attraction". But at this board we don't endorse that as well.

So a guy can be average but to her he isn't. Ever had this that you go wild for one girl and your buddy thinks she's kinda "meh". It's exactly the same thing. People can be objectively beautifull but both can elicit different responses in people.

I think something funny happens later on in the blog discussion.

Guy gives an example of a cold approach:

What is your target audience for this blog Sleazy?
For the newcomers, or the one who just readed the MM, this post is a sound advice.
On the other hand, for someone with good calibration, avoiding cold approaches would be cutting lots of good encounter.

Just yesterday I was walking with my friend in city center. I saw one girl from behind (true cold approach), standing alone near a restaurant, and I thought she had amazing body. I just stopped next to her, and said hi. Within milliseconds I knew what was her opinion on me. My friend just walked away a few meters to give us privacy. Turns out she is taking a quick break from her work at the restaurant, and will finish at 21h. I take her number and say we'll meet at that time. 21h01 I text her im here, she comes out and we go to a date.

I also want to specify that is was the first "approach" I did that day.

Your concept that a man engaging a woman is the most natural thing in the world is something I am very fond of. So if this is true, why cold approaching should be restricted?

Alek Novy responds:

[b]Did you even read the article and the subsequent clarifications on what Sleazy means when he says "cold approaching"?[b] He really meant "indiscriminate approaching"

Because your entire comment seems to be based on something Aaron never said. It's ok if you misunderstood based on the title, but then he clarified further for people who misunderstood him.

Aaron would most definetely not be against what you did there. You FELT like you had to say HI to this ONE girl that stood next to you*. This is NOT indiscriminate approaching

*-> If anything, there's evidence that when guys feel they HAVE to open this ONE chick (omg she has an amazing body), it's really that their advanced calibration and experience is telling them that she's open to being approached.[/b][/b]

So if you feel desire for a women and you approach her, it's not indiscriminate approaching and thus not a cold approach. Now that only makes me wonder who goes out to approach women he's not attracted to? Back to square one

It's nothing but attempting to be controversial if you ask me. I mean here we talk a lot about demographics as well.

Perhaps if he would have read your book better and spend less time bashing it, he should have understood that.

---

haha and today's update, a post about Vince Kelvin.....

[Moody]

(04-18-2012 12:21 AM)TheBoss Wrote:  Way to take things out of context Sleazy. All Mark said was that he approaches women that he is interested in, even if she doesn't give him a signal.

Of course, but Sleazy means, you shouldn't approach any girl you stuck on. He says: Only approach girls which are open and/or gives you signals/invitations, because it's a waste of time to approach a girl who doesn't seems like having fun to talk with strangers and "win her over". Also it's better to have a solid social circle instead of being outside for 3 hours and hit on every girl you see, even if you're not sincerely interested (and of course, there are much "PUAs" speak to girls they're not really into, just for getting a number or some validation). And that's the debate about. His advice isn't bad, but formulate too negative if you ask me (arg, my English sucks today ).

But for someone who's saying it's all about looks, it would be a sign of integrity to show up his own.

[Moody]

I mean, the whole debate seems a little "nerdy", but the answer of it is huge and changes much things, because if you can't create attraction - no matter what you do - but just amplify, it's "numbers game" in the end and a "not-fucking-it-up-when-she-already-likes-you". In this perspective, there are "Three Types Of Women", but no "neutral" ones, just some which are attracted ("receptive"), interested but hesitant and some which doesn't feel any sexual interest at all, because of "not being her type".

I haven't Mark's book here, at the moment, but if the thesis is right, we can say: Attraction "happens", but can't be created through action, only amplified.

[Warped Mindless]

That seems to be a new trend now a days. Thinking that a woman knows instantly from the moment see sees you if shes attracted or not, and that you cant make her attracted if she showed no initial interest is just plain dumb.

Some girls will be attracted to you when the first see you
Some will be neutral, wont be attracted but wont hate you
Some will dislike you when they first see you

For most people, most girls will fall into the neutral category.

I have a family member with a Ph. D in psychology and I was talking to him about "approach invitations" and warm approaches and all that. What he said to me was interesting and I'll paraphrase it...

"In general, people see what they want to see. If you go out specifically looking only for girls who give you these 'approach invites' than thats what you will see. Are some of those girls actually sending you non-verbal signals to approach them? Sometimes. However, often times you will simply fool yourself into thinking thats what their doing because thats what you want them to be doing. Our minds are very good at deception and tricking us into seeing what we want to see. There really isn't a surefire way to know if shes interested or not until you go meet her. Its the same thing as minority guy saying that white women isn't into him. Will some women not be into him? Yes. But the majority of white women most likley doesn't care. But because he believes they do, thats what he sees. He will be talking to a white woman and he will interpret much of her behavior as showing disinterest in him when it doesn't mean that all. You simply see the world through the "glasses" you put on."

I'm going to see if he will make an account here. he has a lot of insight and valuable information he could share.

[playmaker001]

Please have him make an account. I'm thinking about double majoring in psychology because I've loved every class I've taken on it so far and done well. Great post.

[Brian]

Actually, this is one of the most intelligent pickup article i've read in a long time.

Quote:This is not because you get “better at game” but because you learn to read signals better, and focus on girls who are potentially receptive. Thus, you skip all the questionable cold approaches. This is the truth behind cold approaches, and, to take a page out of the marketing book of PUAs, this is indeed “one of the truths PUAs don’t want you to know.”



I have a natural buddy who have almost 100 percent success rate at cold approaching. Here's a secret, he never approach every single girl. In fact, if you point out a girl for him to approach, he will not approach her. He will only approach a girl when "he feels" like it. He's a natural because hes' just naturally better at reading social cue than you do.

[Zac]

I don't approach girls ever that I don't feel like approaching. Ever. Why would you?

[SeXyBaCk]

(04-18-2012 06:35 PM)Warped Mindless Wrote:  That seems to be a new trend now a days. Thinking that a woman knows instantly from the moment see sees you if shes attracted or not, and that you cant make her attracted if she showed no initial interest is just plain dumb.

Most women I've asked and been with told me they definitely know when it's not on and never going to happen. It takes about 8 seconds and they know if they're not at all interested or even repulsed by the guys approach. It's not just looks either, it's the whole appearance/status thing, how you come at them and in what situation. Some days her defences are up, or she's got too much stuff on her mind, and at other times she's more receptive. There are so many factors that weight in ... it's too complex to predict or even figure out. Sure, you can always plow and make a fool out of yourself for the minute percentage of women who are over defensive by nature and might warm up to you. But is that a productive way to spend your time? I wonder.

If you're smooth you can make women's acquaintance anywhere and everywhere. It happens, just far from always. The question is, what works best for you. I don't get this obsession of some guys about making daygame work. Running after girls in high street and asking about directions then relationship ship advice is weird dude, not to mention it's fake, imagine how that looks to a passerby. A lot of women will pick up on that... it's just like "huh, oh, I think he's hitting on me... but not properly, he must be insecure". If I get someone's attention, meaning the conversation has gone on for more than a minute I hit on them and make it apparent that that is what I'm doing.

Wait for a nice day, grab a book and a sandwich, and head to where the office girls have lunch, old steps around fountains on squares, business district parks/lawns etc. Read a funny book, smile, make eye contact. There's always new office girls having lunch by themselves. If you're younger, go clothes shopping at H&M or Zara, ask for fashion advice or cologne advice or whatever, that's genuine and a natural approach. Also many young women just go wasting time in shops and aren't in a hurry to go anywhere.

Getting someone's attention in the street, specially in big cities is hard. Ever try and get someone to notice they've lost something when they're on the phone or wearing headphones? It's weird situation. You have to be really fast, if a pretty girl passes you, you need to say hey right away and if they don't respond or turn around or slow down, that's it. There's about a 3 second window to do it. If for whatever reason you can't do that, then like I said go to where young women hang out during their lunch breaks. Hospital parks/grounds is another great place to be at. I've worked at big hospitals all my adult life and there's literally hundreds of young single women out there when the sun is out.

Whatever this guy is saying about cold approach, he's making a very obvious point that there are ways to make life easier (and that he's probably given up on cold approach).

[Warped Mindless]

You should really read Mark's post on how to give advice.

Quote:Running after girls in high street and asking about directions then relationship ship advice is weird dude, not to mention it's fake, imagine how that looks to a passerby. A lot of women will pick up on that... it's just like "huh, oh, I think he's hitting on me... but not properly, he must be insecure".

I agree. Not sure why you assume that's how I do things because its not. I pretty much always get straight to the point and tell her what I think about her. Usually that shes adorable/cute ect...

I have been known to run across a street to meet a chick who looks my my type (Think of how Avril Lavigne dresses. Thats my type) though. In my experience as long as your being real with the chick she doesn't find it weird. It usually makes them think of many romantic Hollywood movies they have seen. As for what other people thinks... who cares? 99.9% are to busy with their cell phones and iPods to pay attention or care. Besides, I live life according to my values and don't care what some random Joe on the street thinks.

Quote:Getting someone's attention in the street, specially in big cities is hard.

I've been meeting women during the day for the last 4+ years and I don't find it hard at all. Sure, not all women will stop but I find the majority does.

[SeXyBaCk]

(04-19-2012 02:05 AM)Warped Mindless Wrote:  Not sure why you assume that's how I do things because its not. I pretty much always get straight to the point and tell her what I think about her. Usually that shes adorable/cute ect...

...

I've been meeting women during the day for the last 4+ years and I don't find it hard at all. Sure, not all women will stop but I find the majority does.

Ah, Mindless, I wasn't referring to you in my post aside from the first four lines, the rest were my general thoughts on the discussion.

The question is what's the goal. Making daygame work ... as a sort of pastime or challenge, or meeting as many attractive and receptive women as possible. If the latter is your focus, like it has been for me, there are places and situations where it's easier to first establish eye contact and she's not walking across or away from.

[Moody]

But the main question remains: Is it possible to create (!) attraction through action? I don't mean amplify attraction a woman already has if you say "Hi", or is in the half-green zone where she's interested but not sure.

Creating attraction would involve you can change a girls mind from a position where she doesn't like you through words or actions to one where she does.

What's your position about it? I never had such moments. Either she was (a little) into me or not at all. Most scientical researchs tell you it's not possible (look at John Money's "lovemap"-theory, Helen Fishers rudiments or the phenomenon of homogamy).

And what's Postmasculine's position about this?

[Matt T]

Quote:Creating attraction would involve you can change a girls mind from a position where she doesn't like you through words or actions to one where she does.

From my experience this is impossible. If you haven't generated some attraction within seconds, you get rejected/friendzoned/ignored. I'm sure everyone here will tell you the same thing.

[Moody]

(04-21-2012 01:18 AM)Matt T Wrote:  From my experience this is impossible. If you haven't generated some attraction within seconds, you get rejected/friendzoned/ignored. I'm sure everyone here will tell you the same thing.

But what means "generated"? If she's either attracted/sexual interested by your appearance in the first few seconds or not, you can't create it. Hm?

[playmaker001]

@Moody: who gives a shit? Whether you created the attraction where there once was zero, or generated increased attraction through actions, the fact still remains she's attracted. Once you improve your status, looks, etc. (which are all actions by the way) to the best of your ability, it is known that more chicks will dig you. Whether you created attraction out of thin air, or a small amount of attraction was already there, it's impossible to tell. What if all girls have a tiny bit of attraction for every guy that's there from the beginning? What if, what if, what if... You know the mechanics and what works so just focus on that.

I believe acting high status/being high status is an action that creates attraction where there was once none. I also have felt like I created attraction on multiple occasions when a girl originally had no interest in me until she saw that other girls were attracted to me. I may be wrong and they could have been attracted all along. But, does it really matter what the case may be? As long as you know that becoming high status and showing girls that other girls are attracted to you works, your question isn't important in the grand scheme of things (you improving with women).

[shadow]

(04-21-2012 02:18 AM)playmaker001 Wrote:  @Moody: who gives a shit? Whether you created the attraction where there once was zero, or generated increased attraction through actions, the fact still remains she's attracted. Once you improve your status, looks, etc. (which are all actions by the way) to the best of your ability, it is known that more chicks will dig you. Whether you created attraction out of thin air, or a small amount of attraction was already there, it's impossible to tell. What if all girls have a tiny bit of attraction for every guy that's there from the beginning? What if, what if, what if... You know the mechanics and what works so just focus on that.

I believe acting high status/being high status is an action that creates attraction where there was once none. I also have felt like I created attraction on multiple occasions when a girl originally had no interest in me until she saw that other girls were attracted to me. I may be wrong and they could have been attracted all along. But, does it really matter what the case may be? As long as you know that becoming high status and showing girls that other girls are attracted to you works, your question isn't important in the grand scheme of things (you improving with women).

Very mature and well thought out answer. Love it.

[Mark]

(04-21-2012 01:18 AM)Matt T Wrote:  

Quote:Creating attraction would involve you can change a girls mind from a position where she doesn't like you through words or actions to one where she does.

From my experience this is impossible. If you haven't generated some attraction within seconds, you get rejected/friendzoned/ignored. I'm sure everyone here will tell you the same thing.

The only time this happens is when there's an aspect of your identity that she finds attractive but is not immediately obvious. For instance she finds out you're a writer and she is too. I run into it at times with my traveling. She'll be lukewarm but then we get talking about traveling and she becomes very interested. This is not something you can plan for or control though. All you can do is put yourself out there as much as possible and see what happens.

Believe it or not personality and character still count for a lot with many women.

[Jack Sparrow]

Guys decided who they will f-ck within seconds. Girls decide who they will NOT f-ck within seconds. All you need to accomplish within the first minute is not to get ruled out. It you look reasonable, don't act weird, most girls won't rule you out immediately. This is buys you enough time to display your personality, and this is also when a girl will sh-t test you to see if you are the real deal.