Aaron Sleazy - Cold Approach Pretty Much Useless

[Kurt]

http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.in/2012/04/w...-much.html

Hey, anyone read this? It's Aaron Sleazy's latest post. I haven't done enough cold approaches to know if this is true or not, but I wondered about the reaction of people on this forum to it.

[Chaos]

No. I don't agree, in fact I think he's being a little manipulative and pompous because the actual content of the article has little to do with the title of the article.

So basically he's saying that you:

1) Are more prone to get a date when you're picking up a girl in an environment you enjoy (demographics)
2) Thus, as you're in such an environment that doesn't count as a cold approach but instead should be considered warm approaches
3) Thus, since "warm approaches" work better than "cold approaches" he draws the big title "cold approach is useless".

The thing is he's right at point 1, and he spends the greater part of the article justifying it, which is fine an reasonable but then the draws certain conclusions out of thin air that are not justified.

First, being in an environment you're familiar with and comfortable doesn't mean the approach is not "cold". You don't know the girl, you've never talked to her... the approach is cold, even if it easier because you have some topic to which you both can immediately relate.

Even if you go and consider it isn't a cold approach. The fact that "warm approaches" are easier and work better does not mean cold approaches are useless or don't work. That's a logic fallacy and he doesn't provide any evidence or justification for why he thinks cold approaches are useless... The actual title of the article should have been "choose your demographics" or "picking up in the right spots" which I think reflects more what he talks about, that focusing on picking up women on your demographic would provide you a higher "success rate" than randomly approaching women on the street or in clubs.

[dr. love]

It seems like he's trying to bash the PUA-scene in every way he possibly can. If you have the kind of social circles that makes it possible to do a lot of warm approaches, it's of course the best alternative. Most people aren't that lucky.

[TheBoss]

"The reason why you may now think that your game is decent and that you “convert x percent of your cold approaches” is just that you can’t yet read signals properly and approach indiscriminately. While you “run the same game” on every girl, you just happen to occasionally bump into one that just likes you. Since you are more concerned with your game than her reaction to your presence, you may miss that she’s been glancing over three times already. Being blind to the obvious, you think that “game” got you the girl. "

I must say I really like this part. When I was running love systems game, I was focused on going through the whole attraction, qualification, and comfort bs, instead of focusing on the girl.

[Chaos]

(04-10-2012 02:39 PM)TheBoss Wrote:  "The reason why you may now think that your game is decent and that you “convert x percent of your cold approaches” is just that you can’t yet read signals properly and approach indiscriminately. While you “run the same game” on every girl, you just happen to occasionally bump into one that just likes you. Since you are more concerned with your game than her reaction to your presence, you may miss that she’s been glancing over three times already. Being blind to the obvious, you think that “game” got you the girl. "

I must say I really like this part. When I was running love systems game, I was focused on going through the whole attraction, qualification, and comfort bs, instead of focusing on the girl.

How is that different from what happens when you approach at your local yoga class? The problem is not the cold vs warm approach, the problem described is about what you're doing...

[TheBoss]

(04-10-2012 02:43 PM)Chaos Wrote:  

(04-10-2012 02:39 PM)TheBoss Wrote:  "The reason why you may now think that your game is decent and that you “convert x percent of your cold approaches” is just that you can’t yet read signals properly and approach indiscriminately. While you “run the same game” on every girl, you just happen to occasionally bump into one that just likes you. Since you are more concerned with your game than her reaction to your presence, you may miss that she’s been glancing over three times already. Being blind to the obvious, you think that “game” got you the girl. "

I must say I really like this part. When I was running love systems game, I was focused on going through the whole attraction, qualification, and comfort bs, instead of focusing on the girl.

How is that different from what happens when you approach at your local yoga class? The problem is not the cold vs warm approach, the problem described is about what you're doing...

I agree. But it is easier to tell if a girl likes you in an environment where you get to see her somewhat regularly. Even if you miss the signals the first few times, you will eventually pick up on it. It's a bit harder when doing cold approaches.

Also, I'm not saying that cold approaches are useless. Warm approaches are just much easier.

[Warped Mindless]

Aaron posted his article on another forum as well and I addressed it there. The big confusion comes from the term "cold approach." That word means different things to different people. For Aaron, he doesn't consider an approach to be "cold" if a woman has given him some sort of sign of interest or approach invite.

For example, your in a club and a woman gives you eye contact. Aaron would consider that a warm approach. Another example, Aaron spots a chick with open body language towards him, giving him proximity, and exhibiting overexertions. He would approach her because he would then consider it to be a warm approach. I do agree that approaching women who have shown you some sort of interest has a great chance of success than approaching women with no signs of interest.... no matter what kind of label you want to put on the approach.

I simply label cold approach as being an approach to any woman who you dont know and is not part of your social circle and with the purpose of eventually fucking her. And yes, cold approach works well. Very well when you get good at it.

[crazyhorse]

Semantics...

But I still liked the article. There are so many guys out there who are completely blind to social cues and they randomly approach women.

I'm also a believer that most so called cold approaches are usually warm approaches but you didn't notice the signal from the girl. Or you just had your back towards her. This is the point that he's trying to make!

I mean face it when you walk up to a girl, she knows you're coming and she has already decided whether she likes you or not. That's the point of the article.

[Mark]

I don't say this often... But this article is a bunch of bullshit.

I'm as critical of PUA as anyone, but if cold approach in cold environments without approach invitations didn't work (or was "pretty much useless"), then my lifestyle would be impossible. And I would never get laid. Simply not the case.

If he wants to argue that "warm" approaches are easier. OK. If he wants to argue that waiting for signals from girls are easier. OK. If he wants to argue that targeting your demographics helps. OK. If he wants to argue that PUA tactics suck and disregard responses from women. Yeah.

But to say cold approach doesn't work? No, sorry... now you're just trying to create controversy to get people to read your blog.

[Warped Mindless]

(04-10-2012 04:05 PM)Mark Wrote:  I don't say this often... But this article is a bunch of bullshit.

I'm as critical of PUA as anyone, but if cold approach in cold environments without approach invitations didn't work (or was "pretty much useless"), then my lifestyle would be impossible. And I would never get laid. Simply not the case.

If he wants to argue that "warm" approaches are easier. OK. If he wants to argue that waiting for signals from girls are easier. OK. If he wants to argue that targeting your demographics helps. OK. If he wants to argue that PUA tactics suck and disregard responses from women. Yeah.

But to say cold approach doesn't work? No, sorry... now you're just trying to create controversy to get people to read your blog.

Agree 100%

Sleazy gives a lot of good advice when it comes to dating/seduction, a lot of it is similar to yours Mark, however, Sleazy also has a lot of limiting beliefs it seems.

Sleazy also seems like a very angry and negative person. 90% of his blog is about bashing other dating coaches, more specifically Vince Kelvin and Brad P, than actually offering relevant advice to his readers. Sure, its sometimes useful and meaningful to discuss the shortcomings of the mainstream seduction community but when all you do is bash it, and bash it, and then bash it some more its stops being useful and just makes you seem like an angry man standing on your sop box yelling and preaching to anyone that will listen.

Like I said before, Sleazy is a smart guy and has a lot of valuable stuff to teach people. I just wish he would focus more on that than being an overly negative preacher.

[Mark]

What bugs me the most about this though is the mindset it implies. It implies a mindset of, "Hey, you should settle for the low-hanging fruit. Take what's given to you."

The idea that you should wait around for a girl to make eye contact, or that you have to join classes or groups to make it easier for yourself -- it's saying that you should wait around for women who want you, instead of directly pursuing the women who you want.

For me, I approach women I want to approach for no other reason than I want to approach them. It doesn't matter if it's in a yoga class, on the street, in a night club or at a friend's birthday party. It doesn't matter if she's been staring at me for five minutes or if she has no idea I exist. I don't care and I don't really think about it. I approach based on MY INTERESTS not based on HER INTERESTS.

[baller08]

What Mark said above is such a great attitude and it sounds so simple when you read it but it is so incredibly hard for a lot of guys to truly absorb and understand what he is conveying.

If you can live that attitude, then questions about time and place (day game vs night game), race (do girls of this race like x,y,z?), and circumstance (this girl won't respond, etc) won't matter anymore.

[Warped Mindless]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link to the forum where Sleazy re-posted his article but it has about 12 pages currently and you would be amazed at how many people agree with Sleazy.

One guy, an admin of the forum and a well known guy in the fastseduction community even said "cold approach is the worst advice I ever got from the community."

Human stupidity truly has no bounds.

[dr. love]

(04-11-2012 06:13 AM)Warped Mindless Wrote:  Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link to the forum where Sleazy re-posted his article but it has about 12 pages currently and you would be amazed at how many people agree with Sleazy.

He's been an active poster and a mod on puahate, so I guess he's got a lot of fans there. I bet many of them are the same guys that say a normal guy can't get laid if he's not tall and good looking.

[Warped Mindless]

Sleazy didn't repost the article on PUAHate (if he did I'm not aware of it) I was actually talking about another forum.

[Mace]

There's an interesting back-and-forth in that post between Aaron and one of his commenters. Aaron, who usually has a lot to say, retreated pretty quickly from the argument. I thought the commenter brought up some interesting points so I've posted some of it here here:


My Sri Lankan buddy is a normal dude who discovered that using MM routines was getting him more bangs per approach than going natural.

Yes, he gets laid from day game cold approaches. He's average looking at best.

He's got his own pad and a car and a career. College girls are probably impressed by this.

I was flummoxed by his success and asked him to explain his game. The way he breaks it down is simple - every college campus has more girls than guys. On a campus that's 60% female, 1/3 of girls are sleeping alone. Find that 1/3.

Lots of guys think every hot 20 year old is surrounded by a huge social circle of frat guys and athletes trying to holler at her. This might be true of the peroxide blonde party girl at a huge state school with a big hookup scene but it’s not true for every girl.

There are a lot of somewhat shy, lonely young college girls because they don’t go out much. They major in 80% chick programs like psychology and don’t meet a lot of new guys. Assuming you’re better than any of the single guys in her immediate social circle, these are fish easy to net.

We live in a mid-sized college town. I know the local college campus well where he runs his game well – it’s my alma mater. It’s well regarded for it’s Math and Engineering programs – lots of geeks, so the competition from other dudes is minimal. There’s no frat scene or varsity sports scene – no athletes or frat boys. These two factors level the playing field significantly for the average guy. For the enterprising player, it’s a goldmine for pussy.

The girl he's banging now on the regular is a girl he met from a day game cold approach at my alma mater.

...I'll relate my experience. In my online dating days I'd hunt for girls 18-24 on POF. I noticed a disproportionate share of hotties from a neighbouring town, mostly college girls from a small campus that's 60-70% female - no exaggeration. WTF, why would these cute, nice, seemingly normal girls be on a dating site looking for men?

Because they're stuck in an articially closed environment without enough guys. And given the skewed ratios, a huge number of these girls were sleeping alone or resorting to online dating. Owing to today's broken dating and mating scene, there's quite a bit of tight young pussy not getting tapped. Such a shame.

I've banged a number of these college girls even post-college. So has my Sri Lankan buddy. Via day game cold approaches. The juniors and seniors like mature, slightly older guys who have their shit together, but who still look like they could pass for a college kid. They love a guy with a car and his own pad.

There's no reason why an enterprising day game player in a college town couldn't have a date lined up with Allison on Monday, Amber on Tuesday, Amy on Wednesday etc. You exist outside of their social milieus amd there's no risk of your rep on campus spreading. Women are choosy as their options, so work the ratios to your advantage. Keep a harem.

Aaron, you're hating on cold approaches. Have you tried college town day game? Have you spent time in the trenches? Are you speculating from the way you think things they should be from your purview, or are you relating from experience?

...Aaron, you're a great watchdog and I admire the work you've done in exposing the sleazy internet marketers and scammers in the industry. But to be so dogmatically dismissive about all aspects of PUA game tactics - especially when there are guys like my buddy who've used it to effect despite physical shortcomings - is impudent.

I bring up my Sri Lankan buddy to emphasize my point that game tactics can be used to compensate for a lack of value. Invariably when we see a guy pulling off a cold approach it's the same litany of excuses (he's tall, he's muscular, he's white, he's good looking, he's rich, he's in her social circle).

My short, skinny Sri Lankan buddy has none of these things. And yet he's pulling. The only weapon in his arsenal is a sharp, analytical mind, a good understanding of evolutionary psychology, and a strong awareness of the social dynamics of the closed environment in which he's gaming (college campus).

Given your skepticism, we also have audio of his approaches. Here's another one - a cute 22 year old blonde. He banged her on the third date and dated her off-and-on for 6 months.

http://tindeck.com/listen/jxek

[playmaker001]

@Mace: Hey man, i remember you from the old practical pickup forum. You used to post the audios from your approaches and ask for feedback. You really got those routines down, i guess it sounds natural (although your voice sounds creepily familiar to Neil Strauss') but I'm guessing it's working for you so keep at it. The important thing is that you're out there in the trenches approaching, so props. Listening to the audio, I especially like that after the routines you TRANSITIONED into a bit of rapport with her and got to know who she is as a person. It annoys me when people use routines they learned from some pua site, but don't know when to stop or what to say next. But anyways, good shit man.

[Mark]

It's funny, I actually met an Indian guy back in the day, like 2007 or so -- really smart, cool guy, who totally made Mystery Method day game work for him. He is, to this day, the only guy I've ever met who got it to work. Every other Mystery Method guy I've ever met would bomb and make a fool of himself, but this Indian guy pulled it off every time we went out.

He learned about half a dozen magic tricks, had the same 2-3 openers and routines, got really good at all of them and then would go out to book stores and parks and get like 8 phone numbers in a single afternoon. Got 'em out on dates to and laid them, mostly short blond girls. And he was this short, bald, Indian guy. Thing was, he was totally normal... even kind of nerdy. Super friendly guy though and easy to relate to.

Just goes to show, that anything can theoretically work. It's more a question of efficiency, what your goals are, how you want to go about it, your personality, etc.

[Mace]

(04-11-2012 08:23 PM)Mark Wrote:  It's funny, I actually met an Indian guy back in the day, like 2007 or so -- really smart, cool guy, who totally made Mystery Method day game work for him. He is, to this day, the only guy I've ever met who got it to work. Every other Mystery Method guy I've ever met would bomb and make a fool of himself, but this Indian guy pulled it off every time we went out.

He learned about half a dozen magic tricks, had the same 2-3 openers and routines, got really good at all of them and then would go out to book stores and parks and get like 8 phone numbers in a single afternoon. Got 'em out on dates to and laid them, mostly short blond girls. And he was this short, bald, Indian guy. Thing was, he was totally normal... even kind of nerdy. Super friendly guy though and easy to relate to.

This man's my idol!

[Matt II]

Thininking about it though all my successes have come from girls that where warm to me within a few seconds after approaching them. They might not of seen me before approaching them, or only seconds before, but after I said something the vibe between us was straight away playfull, slightly sexual.

[WestGame]

(04-11-2012 08:23 PM)Mark Wrote:  It's funny, I actually met an Indian guy back in the day, like 2007 or so -- really smart, cool guy, who totally made Mystery Method day game work for him. He is, to this day, the only guy I've ever met who got it to work. Every other Mystery Method guy I've ever met would bomb and make a fool of himself, but this Indian guy pulled it off every time we went out.

He learned about half a dozen magic tricks, had the same 2-3 openers and routines, got really good at all of them and then would go out to book stores and parks and get like 8 phone numbers in a single afternoon. Got 'em out on dates to and laid them, mostly short blond girls. And he was this short, bald, Indian guy. Thing was, he was totally normal... even kind of nerdy. Super friendly guy though and easy to relate to.

Just goes to show, that anything can theoretically work. It's more a question of efficiency, what your goals are, how you want to go about it, your personality, etc.

Hello Mark,

do you know which MM-Methods he mostly used?

[Halo Effect]

You miss the point. Note that Mark says that this guy was the only guy he ever met who made MM day game work. Mark has met many men who were amazing with women. He has also met many MM fanatics. The two groups do not overlap, except for this one rare case. What does that tell you?

[Mark]

Yeah, everyone I've ever met who used MM was fucking horrible with girls... except that guy.

[Mace]

(04-14-2012 01:35 PM)Mark Wrote:  Yeah, everyone I've ever met who used MM was fucking horrible with girls... except that guy.

And me. Just listed to my audio. I have made MM work by spitting the same routines in the same sequence literally word for word. And I number-close in about 1 in 3 approaches.

As a new guy you should seriously consider using MM in your routines approaches. You may start getting better results. Of course, you can ditch the routines once you develop confidence and rock solid solid "inner game". But you need a solid foundation for first as success begets confidence (not necessarily the other way around).

[Mark]

Haven't met you Mace. And judging from your posts, you're not exactly killing it.