A couple weeks ago, I began a series on my biggest fears throughout my life and how I’ve dealt and coped with them. The first installment was about the fear of failure and how I feel that I’ve largely overcome that in my life.

The second installment is about fear of disapproval, a deep fear that is related to the fear of failure, but also debilitating in other ways. This is another fear that I feel I’ve largely overcome, although it took longer and I still feel the occasional pang.

In a couple weeks, I’ll complete the series with a third major fear of my life which I believe I am still working through at the moment.

Fear of Disapproval

Last time I talked about how in high school I invested most of my time and effort into three things: music, video games and drugs. I talked about how this was a defense mechanism against my fear of failure, as they were all activities that no matter how good I got at them or how often I did them, there was no real long-term opportunities with them, therefore little risk of failure.

Well, the other benefit of these activities is that they can distort other people’s perception of you allowing you to avoid judgment and criticism.

With music, I performed less than I should have and I played with far fewer musicians of my caliber than I should have. These activities would have required me making myself vulnerable artistically. Instead, I spent most of my time woodshedding in my room, practicing rote and measurable skills and perfecting various songs instead of finding ways to express myself to others. I should have joined more bands. I could have easily played a lot of gigs. But I didn’t. I was too afraid.

The same was true with video games. Although most of the games were played online with other people, those people were largely anonymous and incapable of judging me or my performance. In fact, I believe to this day that a large part of online video games’ success is that it allows people a mild form of social interaction and ambition without the downside of judgment from one’s peers. A success like hitting level 50 in Everquest let’s you imagine how impressed hundreds of other players are without ever verifying it, it allows you the feeling of accomplishment and superiority. While a failure like getting your ass kicked in Quake, you can log off and never see or think about the person ever again. Online gaming is built perfectly as a way to avoid being socially punished for failure while being able to idealize successes. It distorts social feedback in your favor and I took full advantage of this.

Drugs are obvious. They’re escapism, plain and simple. It’s no coincidence that most of my friendships revolved around drugs as well. No one can judge you when everyone is high.

And let’s not even talk about the girl situation.

Everyone in my family is poor at sharing their feelings, particularly negative feelings. I grew up in an environment where not only was confrontation rare, but it was something that was looked down upon and avoided at all costs. I was rarely subjected to disapproval, and when I was, it stung. Especially since open appreciation was expressed so seldom as well.

On top of that, when my parents divorced, I changed from public to private school. The public school had over 1,000 kids and I had a lot of friends and acquaintances there. The private school had a small group of 40 kids in my class, most of which were wealthy, more conservative and had known each other since first grade. I didn’t fit in. I was forced to play sports (which I sucked at) and I spent a lot of time being ridiculed and shunned my first year and a half there. It made an indelible mark on me and I constructed a lifestyle in order to avoid a lot of the criticism and judgment that I received in that period.

And that lifestyle worked… until I got to college. Then it began to unravel.

For one, being in music school where there were over a dozen other musicians who were as good or better than me, being judged regularly by teachers and being criticized by your peers — well, that shot my music defense mechanism down the drain.

Investing so much time into video games quickly felt absurd. Unlike high school, where people are forced to see you and interact with you every day, in college you have to be a bit more pro-active about using your free time, especially when you’re expected to build a social life from scratch. Video games weren’t conducive for that, so they soon left as well.

The good news about college though is that it levels the playing field in terms of social status. Most universities are so big and diverse that there’s no longer a “cool” crowd and most people have so much going on that they don’t have time to judge you or criticize you for what shoes you wear or what you made in your history class or whatever. This opens up a lot more social opportunities for people who had few of them when they were younger.

By the second year of college, I began to come out of my shell a little bit and make good friends, friends who accepted me for who I was, friends who I didn’t need to always get high with to feel comfortable.

Without the three crutches I had always relied upon I finally developed some social confidence. I also got a girlfriend. Later, I largely got over my fear of failure and began accomplishing goals I set for myself which raised my self-esteem. I transferred to a school in Boston and things were looking up for me. I was as comfortable with myself as I had ever been.

It wasn’t until a few years later that the fear of disapproval bulldozed itself into my life once again.

(Un)Necessary Narcissism

My relationship ended in 2005. It was ugly. I was 21-years-old, hurt, single and desperate to meet some girls. It’s during this period that I discovered the pick up artist community and devoured all of the information I could find. It was the perfect solution to my problems: not only could I get a lot of girls, but I could do it in such a way that I never risked disapproval or rejection.

Well, that was until I actually went out and tried to use the techniques I read about. And by “tried to use” I mean I stood around and did nothing but read.

I quickly discovered I was terrified to approach women, terrified to the point of literally shaking. I then realized that I was terrified to approach other guys too. Basically anyone who was a stranger scared me. Then I realized that I was terrified of even making eye contact with strangers.

PUA exposed something in me: around people I knew or people who were introduced to me, I could be quite confident and charismatic, but around total strangers I was still nervous and very insecure. I began to notice that at college parties, if I didn’t know somebody, I had no idea how to meet them. In classes I was afraid to talk to anyone sitting around me unless they talked to me first. The fact that I walked with an iPod everywhere and listened to it at all times of the day began to seem less like a passion for music than a fear of contact with humanity.

Socially, I was trapped in a box, only to be let out by people who chose to engage me.

The process of undoing this fear was long and grueling. It took me three months before I worked up the nerve to talk to a cute girl I didn’t know. And when I did, I was so nervous that I awkwardly apologized for talking to her. It took another three months to be able to do this on any sort of consistent basis. And then another three months after that to actually start getting dates with women from it.

But one person actually, for better or worse, helped this area of my life more than anybody, and he did it in a fairly short amount of time. His name was Matt and he was a rock star. No, really. He was actually a rock star.

I met Matt at a Fourth of July party in 2006. It was by chance. I met a girl at a party the night before and she ended up inviting both me and him to the party the next night.

Our initial encounter was a bit awkward, well, for me at least. Here I thought I was in with this girl and she had brought another guy. His arms were covered in tattoos and he had GQ good-looks. He was a singer in a heavy metal band and had just come off touring the US and Europe. Being a metal head and a musician myself, I naturally asked him about his band. Next thing I know, he and I are sitting alone in the corner with each other’s iPods out, playing music for each other, talking about music, and pounding Jack Daniels after Jack Daniels. We both forgot about the girl.

Matt didn’t give a fuck. I mean that as literally as it can possibly mean for a human being. Matt said and did anything at a moment’s notice, for better or worse. This included getting thrown out of a bar for standing up for me when some guy threatened me for talking to a girl. This also meant doing whatever drugs were put in front of him in inadvisable situations.

He also had sex with more hot girls than anyone I had ever met before or since. Naturally, I gravitated towards him. Not only had he already lived out my musical fantasies, but he was living out my sexual ones as well. It was hard not to be taken by him. He would end up being taken by me as well — maybe because I understood music as well as he did, maybe because I treated him as a real guy and not some celebrity, maybe because I had come from a background that he always secretly wished for himself — either way, we became good friends for the next year or so.

Years later, after studying a lot of psychology, it would become clear that Matt was undoubtedly a clinical narcissist: both obsessed with what people thought of him at all times and altogether completely selfish and self-absorbed. And for a period, his narcissism rubbed off on me.

Whereas a month prior I had been terrified to ask a girl in line at the grocery store a simple question, I now found myself stopping random girls on the street to tell them I wanted to pee on them. Whereas I had nervously guffawed my way through introductions that spring, that fall I was calling girls and telling them that I only do anal on the first date. We drank too much. Nothing mattered. Especially since Matt had a seemingly unending pussy carousel. Matt and I would openly ask girls who were friends if we could swap them or if we could do cocaine off of their naked bodies. We’d often get slapped or have drinks thrown on us. But sometimes they would say yes.

It was all totally out-of-bounds and exactly what I needed at the time. I experienced more rejection in that year than the rest of my life combined. I also experienced more sex in that year than rest of my life combined.

In a brilliant breakdown of the psychology behind the pick up artist community, blogger “T” says that pick up artists take men who are codependent in their relationships and train them in narcissistic behaviors in order to get laid, and it works. It takes men from being overly concerned with what women think about them and training them to having little to no concern about what women feel. It’s over-compensation.

I’ve written extensively about how PUA conditions men to objectify women and their sex lives in order to improve it.

I was no exception. Between the PUA theory I was devouring by day and my nights out with Matt, my relationship with women became highly objectified, a mere transaction of syllables for the purpose of my own personal pleasure. And although this negated my fear of disapproval around women and strangers to a large extent, it also dehumanized me and my interactions. I became an aggressive, selfish narcissist incapable of legitimate connection and empathy. And it’d eventually make me more miserable than when I started.

Years later I would figure this all out. That I too had overcompensated. And that the influences in my life were largely not healthy. Matt would be long-gone. On another tour with a new band. Deeper into drugs than I cared to deal with.

And it would be yet another process to bring myself back to humanity, to be able to approach women and strangers with empathy and compassion, with vulnerability. Reverting from the narcissism would bring a lot of the anxiety and fear back, but this time it would be far more manageable. And the end result far more comfortable.

Do I still worry about disapproval? Of course, it’s human nature. But like my fear of failure, it’s something that exists today as a low-level throb, not a blinding siren immobilizing anything and everything I want to accomplish. It no longer interferes with my social life or love life as it once did. And as I become a more and more of a public figure, the criticism and attention that I am subjected to only diminishes the fear even further.

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48 Responses to Fear of Disapproval

  1. Jack says:

    “I now found myself stopping random girls on the street to tell them I wanted to pee on them”

    Really?

    • Mark Manson says:

      Yeah, and then there was the classic “Hey baby, want to see my van?” line.

    • Jean says:

      LOLOL, i used to hang out with a guy naturally good with women who would just approach women asking for directions for her pussy, Asking shit like ” Will you blow me?”, ” You should give the pussy easier…” and much more. He had absolutely no shame lool. Very funny guy. But he was actually mentaly sick, a huge narcissic, tought he was the best for being good with women and being son of a rich guy. Would freak out if someone told him they tought he was not that good or rich. And to think a lot of people tought he was a boss just because he was fearless in the approach and would get it easy… he probably hated his life… what a fanboyism fail!

      Mark Manson, is Matt the pick up Jesus? lol

  2. Kevin says:

    This series is awesome. I really dig the whole, “I’m not perfect just because I’m a self-help writer. Here’s what I’ve struggled with”-vibe.

    I’m guessing Part 3 is going to be about Fear of Commitment?

  3. The Notorious Phd says:

    I think that extreme narcissism is, internally, almost indistinguishable from extreme insecurity. It’s just that one over-compensates with action, and the other inaction.

    I’ve recently begun an experiment where I’m trying to express myself as honestly as possible in my interactions with the world. One of the first situations in which I put this to the test literally had me shaking with fear/discomfort.

    Overcoming this fear is damn hard. But I can see it will be worth it.

    P.S. Mark, thank you for existing and writing.

    • jakemo says:

      Hey man, you’re on a good path. I recently got back in touch with the part of me that is naturally very outgoing, but this time around, I understand it from a point of what it means to communicate from vulnerability. When you get it, you’ll get it, and you’ll suddenly realize that everyone is reacting to you in a very positive way. Cheers to ya, and if you haven’t read “Models” by Mr. Mark himself, I highly recommend it, particularly the parts on effective communication and being charming.

      Also, if you can figure out what *your* vulnerabilities are, what makes *you* vulnerable in your own life, it will be hugely empowering.

      Cheers.

    • Mark Manson says:

      Thank you for existing and reading!

  4. Taylor says:

    It always seems like people need to “go through a phase” of each extreme of behavior before they can become balanced. What are your thoughts on this? Do “nice guy” archetypal men need to go through a womanizing phase in order to become well-rounded?

    • Mark Manson says:

      To an extent, I think so. I think the extremity of the behavior swing will vary with people. I had a lot of pent up emotional baggage tied up with women and relationships, so I think mine was somewhat severe. That and I had a history with risky and adventurous activity, so…

    • Dr. Knight says:

      I was recently reading Symposium by Plato and there’s an exerpt that says to “love first one fair form, and then many, and learn the connexion of them; and from beautiful bodies he should proceed to beautiful minds, and the beauty of laws and institutions, until he perceives that all beauty is of one kindred; and from institutions he should go on to the sciences, until at last the vision is revealed to him of a single science of universal beauty…” I’ll let you interpret that on your own.

  5. Koanic says:

    Matt had extremely shallow eye sockets and small or medium eye spacing and eye size, and a big head, I’d predict.

  6. I have just finished reading Susan Cain’s book ‘Quiet’ and it clearly elucidates the sensitivity (too agreeable) traits of introverts from the blithe calmness of extroverts in social interactions. Since 1/3 to 1/2 of the adult population is made up of introverts (like myself), is there a different road map to face our fears and, if not, shouldn’t there be?

    • Mark Manson says:

      No reason introverts shouldn’t be able to go out and express themselves irreverently. Introverts are not socially handicapped. They can do anything extroverts can do just as easily. The difference is they re-energize by being alone.

      Don’t use introversion as an excuse. I pop up as mildly introverted on a lot of MBTI tests.

  7. Jarocho says:

    Hi Mark, I’m currently 3 years off recovering from drug use, which is great, but found that my nervous system is “raw” and many social interactions are much harder now than before (of course I’m not hidding behind drugs). However, the last 3 years have also been the best in terms of feeling proud of myself for pushing through tough situations and coming at the other end a better man. I figured that I don’t have to be an asshole nor come up with manipulating ways to getting people to like me and that’s pretty awesome…thanks for sharing!

  8. Jamie says:

    Was this ‘Matt’ someone us metal heads would know of or was he just in small time bands?

    If he was someone fairly well known.. any clues? ;-)

    • Mark Manson says:

      I’m not going to divulge his identity. He was not huge, and chances are you wouldn’t recognize his name immediately unless you happened to be a fan of his band(s). He made enough to make a living, but he was by no means big and famous. I was a big metal head and I had never heard of his band until he showed them to me.

      • Jamie says:

        No of course I wouldn’t expect you to. If he was around the Massachusetts metal scene then I may have heard of him, but if it wasn’t that area then could be anyone.

  9. Martin says:

    Hi Mark, great article! And what about older people, say 26, 30, 40 years old men who are still on that process of stop thinking what others say about them and feel fear of rejection or social disapproval? Would you recommend going out like you did and saying thinks like “i want to pee on you” to a lot of girls till they are comfortable about it as it happened to you?? cause i think if an 22 year old boy says that its even funny, but thinking about a 30 year old doing that it’s…weird…

    • Mark Manson says:

      This is not to be mistaken advice. This is merely the process I went through. There are recommendations on how to get over fear all over this site.

    • Rich Duncan says:

      Martin, as a fairly easygoing, outgoing soul, that is thirty-eight years of age. I think it is safe for me to advise against asking a woman if you can pee on them at this … or any age.

      However, the things I would advise trying when coming out of your social cocoon would be simply starting to talk to ANYONE you would normally be uncomfortable talking to. If you see an attractive woman at work, a restaurant or coffee shop you don’t have to strike up a conversation. Find something that they are doing or wearing and compliment or talk to them about that. Examples being “What book are you reading? I have been looking for something new.” or “I really like that hat! Great choice”. I personally love when a girl has a sports shirt on… I can talk trash (lightly) about their team.

      There is only light rejection in that … so what if they turn and walk away?

  10. Chris says:

    Tell me you played EQ man… my nerd love for you will go up 50 points. I have some great memories from my EQ days. Actually met a good buddy of mine whom I still talk to and see occasionally face-to-face over 12 years later. So not all for loss!

    I think as a casual hobby, certain games that require skill and strategy are not so bad in moderation… *cough* starcraft *cough*

    So are you completely anti-drug now?
    As somebody who quit and disassociated with everything (well, it was mostly just pot) for a long period of time (over a year), then approached them in a new way. It seems to me, a little herbage can be a very positive thing for some. It’s ridiculously useful introspectively and creatively. Sitting around with mind numbingly dull people… not so much, but that applies equally to being sober, right?

    Psychedelics once in a blue moon… ditto. Holy shit, is that a learning experience.

    Never did coke (okay, ONCE in highschool). Recently my associations with it got destroyed. A girl I was seeing and really liked had a razor in her Altoids container and I never connected the dots till after the relationship went south a few months later, while talking with a more experienced buddy about it.

    Now the thought of it brings back all the horrible feelings/messed up fantasies about her and her messed up situation. Maybe the whole ordeal was a blessing in disguise.

    Great post Mark. Thought you were an interesting cat before and always enjoyed gleaning some new ideas from your writings, but now we can all relate and see you as a real person. Keep it up man, I wish you the best.

    • Mark Manson says:

      Yeah I played EQ. And a lot of Starcraft. My main addictions were Quake and Unreal though… and later Halo.

      I quit all drugs for good when I was 19, although I still do a little something-something for kicks maybe about once a year. Usually it’s when I’m having a great night out and someone offers it to me. Otherwise I don’t bother. Never buy anything or seek anything out.

    • Mark Manson says:

      I don’t enjoy Marijuana though. I have no problem with people who smoke it, but I just don’t enjoy it anymore, so I never do it.

  11. Svetlana says:

    i always thought that being in fear, in confusion leads you to failure (just because all fashion books about success-achieving teach this way). But still couldn’t avoid this feeling. Now i see that it accompanies a lot of people who has goals and want to become successful. Surprise! if you imagine failure probably it will become true. Doesn’t it work??

  12. jay says:

    Hey Mark,

    I’m intrigued by your comment on how your family was poor at sharing negative emotions. I also recently read your article on vulnerability.

    Anyway, How does one share negative emotions (in a healthy way) without being whiny?

    • Mark Manson says:

      By taking responsibility for them. By not blaming others.

      • Jay says:

        I guess, the gist of my question is: how does one effectively “share” negative emotions? Let’s say you had a bad day for example.

        • Mark Manson says:

          “I had a really bad day, X, Y, and Z happened. I feel like crap. Let’s drink wine and watch a movie.”

          Remember… it’s not about the behavior but the intentions. Blame, whining (looking for sympathy), self-pity, passive aggressiveness, grudges — these are all poor ways of expressing negative emotions.

          Everyone needs to vent and get angry some time. Everyone gets sad some times. That’s normal.

  13. Kwjibo says:

    I’m sorry, but the Rawness article you refer to is garbage.

    The idea of a codependent-to-narcisstic shift is sound, but that’s a one line summary of a four part article involving thousands upon thousands of words of conjecture, faulty logic, incredibly questionable leaps of faith and rather sketchy analysis.

    I’m normally pleasantly surprised at your choice in psychological material, but this is just awful. Really, really poor.

  14. Andy says:

    It’s quite brave of yours to be dropping such very personal emotional issues here in front of the whole world. Anyway, it’s great because a lot of guys are going or have gone through very similar stuff.

    As for your metalhead friend – I hope the drugs haven’t gotten the better of him!

  15. aaron says:

    Mark,

    Thanks for sharing and being open in this wonderful post. Can relate very well to the 1st post and particularly well to this one too. Really looking forward to the 3rd one :)

    *wonders as well if Matt has anything to do with Pickup Jesus

  16. [...] your social anxiety. You don’t realize it at the moment, but you’ve made a nice little cocoon for yourself. You’ve got your video games, your guitar, the occasional pot smoking and drinking. You spent [...]

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