Guest post by Xander. Xander is an executive in the entertainment business and resides in West Hollywood, CA.
I recently fulfilled a long gestating desire to visit the birthplace of the martial art I practice, Muay Thai, and spent my holiday break in Thailand. After a week of sightseeing and training on our own, my friend and I met up with the tour group that would be our travel companions for the back half of the journey. In the group was the gorgeous Sofia, a 20 year old Australian girl, with a body that undoubtedly made her popular in high school and a cigarette dangling from her fingertips that made her look like an extra in a Robert Plant music video from the 80′s. After several nights of warding off heavy competition from other guys in the tour, random other travelers, and local Thai’s enamored with this blonde bombshell, I felt my dry charm and non-nonchalance finally begin to reel her in. As we chatted at a beachfront bar, sand underneath our toes, tiki torches illuminating the low tide washing up the shore a mere 10 feet away Sofia turned to me and said:
“You’re witty. You know you’re the only person on the tour I truly enjoy hanging out with.”
I smiled and looked into her eyes and enjoyed this perfect moment in paradise. My bliss was broken as I heard “Sofia!” and a beer bottle get shoved in between us.
“That’s my husband,” she smirked as she held up an origami paper ring on her finger, a gift earlier in the night from the Thai bar man flagrantly ruining my moment. I rolled my eyes at the cheesy gesture and prepared to easily brush off this irritating intrusion. I continued talking for a moment before the local got up and pulled Sofia away as she said to me “I’ll be right back.” I ordered another drink confident the lame attempt would fail and she would be sitting next to me on the bar stool once again. I chatted with our tour guide and occasionally glanced over and saw the Thai bar man playing some sort of grade school patti-cake game with Sofia. I cringed. After a particularly wild and engaging story from our guide I glanced over again to see that both Sofia and bar local were gone. I scanned the bar with my eyes for several minutes before finally spotting them, in a hammock above the DJ booth smoking cigarettes and chatting. My friend brought over two French girls who under different circumstances would have made perfectly nice subjects to my charms if I hadn’t been transfixed on the spectacle I was witnessing: Sofia and the Thai bar man now wrapped up in each other, arms around one another. The chatting turned into kissing which turned into grinding to the sound of house and techno blaring from the bar — not to mention the subtle grinding of teeth of a very perplexed Xander, who was finally put out of his misery when the bar man and Sofia retired to the adjacent bedroom above the DJ booth.
As I lay in bed unable to fall asleep later that night I contemplated what had just transpired and considered how of all the attempts made at this girl throughout the trip, the eventual conqueror employed what I thought were such corny and transparent methods, undoubtedly repeated almost nightly on other Australian girls on vacation. Among the factors is an oft neglected thing I use with some effectiveness back home – romance.
As we pass the one day a year set aside for love and romance, I’d like to posit to that a touch of romance in your relations with women can go a long way. In recent years, volumes have been written in books and magazines about the “hook up culture” and how for a variety of sociological reasons, American men are setting the rules of dating and those rules include absolutely minimal effort and relationships on their terms. And yet at the same time, evidence is strong that despite the celebration of sex positive attitudes among modern Western women, the ultimate desire for love, commitment, companionship and, yes, romance is peeking forth like a plant titling its stems towards a just-out-of-reach ray of light.
When men think of romance they may think of Fabio on the cover of a cheesy romance novel or teenagers lined up to see a silly vampire movie. Or maybe painful reminders of cruelly rebuffed gestures of teenage desire. Or worse yet, maybe they associate the word with a mild form of worship whereby the man spends considerable resources on flowers and gifts, writes poetry or lays his jacket over a puddle hoping for a kiss on the cheek at the end of the night. If you’ve really been warped like I have then the word romance creates a knee-jerk reaction whereby your masculinity must be defended; that you aren’t “beta” or “supplicating” that you are a bro and you don’t love them hoes. Hopefully you’ve realized that romance is really not any of these things and many of these attitudes come from feelings of hurt from past rejections. So if you know what romance isn’t, let’s take a look at some of that make up what I consider romance and how they’ve helped me.
Romance is setting and ambiance
In the story above, much of what was greasing the wheels of that hook up, as well as countless others on the island that night and over the trip, was beauty of Thailand. Whether it’s a pristine beach in the South Pacific, a rooftop view of the city lights in Manhattan or just a dark corner of a candlelit restaurant, the setting and ambiance gets women in the mood for love/sex. The taking in of beauty, of any kind, stirs the emotions in women and thus enables romance to happen. I think the hot new social network Pinterest, which boasts a more that 80% female membership, is an interesting window into the female mind. And what you’ll find between the pictures of food is an appreciation of all things pretty.
Romance is barriers
As Mark discussed in a previous post, barriers to love create sexual tension and ultimately romance. Whether it’s language and cultural barriers, parental disapproval, existing relationships in the way, or emotional unavailability, barriers to a hookup take make said hookup take on erotic qualities, especially for women (but for men as well). Of course the most obvious example is the most romantic story of all time – Romeo and Juliet – where the barrier was the long standing feud between the Capulets and the Montagues
Romance is slightly adversarial
Related to the previous quality, romance that is precipitated by an adversarial relationship can amp up the sexual tension. One study showed that agreeableness in men is linked to lower sexual success and another showed that couples who played tennis against each other were much more likely to have sex later than those on the same doubles team. Virtually every romantic comedy Hollywood puts out begins with a man and woman who initially despise each other only to end up in bed and in love by the time the curtains comes back up. Some light disagreements or even lively debates on dates can increase your chances of success.
Romance is different / unique
There’s a pretty loud voice in our society portraying men and their attitudes towards dating in a certain light. Women will often operate under the assumption that men will screw anything, that their primary interest is sex and that if they do get in a relationship, they are likely to cheat. Whether it’s true or not there is certainly ample evidence to support this attitude, whether it’s Tucker Max or philandering politicians or horny drunk dudes pawing at women at a club. Something I often hear women say is that “men are all the same.” Of course, if you are reading this it’s because you aren’t the same (or at least hope not to be). And that’s where showing yourself to be different in and of itself is romantic. For within romance is the idea that not only this person is different from others but that the two people make something that is different, together.
Romance is in the details
Whether it’s the attention paid to fold of your handkerchief or the table settings for a night in at your apartment, attention to detail shows an effort that is not only a signal of interest in her but a sign of competence that you’ll be capable in a variety of circumstances which in turn engenders trust – trust that she can depend on you for her very survival.
Romance is fatalistic
Again as Mark pointed out when discussing the serendipity bias, when coincidence or perceived acts of fate enter into an interaction between a man and woman, that interaction can often taken on greater significance, as if destiny and the hands of the Gods were working to bring these two people together. Whatever your actual philosophy is, the romance of fatalism can light a spark into a first meeting that can burn long and bright. Anyone who has witnessed a long married couple light up when telling a story of how they first met has seen this in action first hand.
Romance is created through shared experience
Feelings of love can be created and heightened through shared experience. When you meet someone under strained or exceptional conditions, the feelings that are stirred up create attraction. Many people look at the drab day-in-day-out realities of marriage and family life and raising kids as a sex-killing tedium. What they don’t realize is that shared daily experience, through thick and thin, can increase a couple’s intimacy and make romantic moments that easier to spark.
Romance is connection
Above all romance is about connecting at an emotional level. Beyond the bells and whistles and superficialities, ultimately everyone wants someone who understands them deeply and shares their values and goals. Love and romance are after all, feelings.
I would definitely not argue that you should return to the days of Jane Eyre and Madame Bovary and pour the preceding all over the object of your desire. Such a grand, anachronistic departure from the cultural norm will likely be met with skepticism. But in the way that a tough boss or father sprinkles in praise for maximum effect, so too can you sprinkle in romance in your pursuit whether it’s on the beach in Thailand or at your local sports bar. Finding ways to infuse romance into your interaction not only make it more enjoyable, but increase the emotional significance of everything that happens. Try it. I think you’ll be glad you did.
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I think you’re reading way too much into the little gesture of a paper ring. The girl was attracted to him so she went with him. The ring and all other “romance” was inconsequential. If you like romance, be my guest and do it to please yourself, but it won’t increase or decrease the odds of having sex with the girl.
This reeks of mental masturbation that is so prevalent in PUA circles. I know you guys are trying to be different from the PUA community, so I am giving you this feedback. Sorry to be so critical, but I call them like I see them.
Romance is the RESULT of sexual attraction and chemistry, NOT THE CAUSE.
LOTS of evidence to refute this. Thought experiment: Why is it so easy to hookup at a wedding?
Same reason it’s easy to hookup in your social circle. Lots of girls around, so one of them is likely to find you attractive.
You can’t take a girl who is not attracted to you, then romance her and cause her to become attracted to you as a result. This is a losing strategy that will result in lots of wasted time and effort. Girls know withing seconds (based on your face, body, scent, voice) if they want to fuck you.
It’s not a matter of “you romancing her,” it’s a matter of there being circumstantial factors that create a sense of romance…
@Mark
“As I lay in bed unable to fall asleep later that night I contemplated what had just transpired and considered how of all the attempts made at this girl throughout the trip, the eventual conqueror employed what I thought were such corny and transparent methods”
This sentence and many others in the article don’t speak to circumstantial factors. It implies the dude “romanced” her with the paper ring.
You can’t create attraction with “romance.” Attraction has to be there from the begining. I would agree that certain “circumstantial factors” may make it SLIGHTLY more likely that she will ACT on this attraction, but that’s about it. These “circumstantial factors” are largely about logistics.
I was referring to the wedding example.
Romance is something that can happen spontaneously and something that can be created as well…
I think what you and Xander are saying are two different things… what you’re saying is that romance can’t be EXPERIENCED without there already being attraction. Which is true.
But Xander’s point that romance can also heighten and create more attraction and intimacy is true as well.
@Mark said:
“what you’re saying is that romance can’t be EXPERIENCED without there already being attraction. Which is true.”
Precisely. But I am under the impression that Xander doesn’t believe this. I am under the impression that Xander believes that “romance” can CREATE attraction. I say this because he disagreed with my statement: “Romance is the RESULT of sexual attraction and chemistry, NOT THE CAUSE.”
Also I think the article as a whole implies that romance can create attraction. One could waste a lot of time romancing a girl that’s not attracted to him. If you’re going to romance a girl, first make sure she’s attracted to you (i.e. responds positively to physical advances).
Whew, arguing semantics is making me tired…and kind of horny.
Mark interpreted me correctly. Romance can create MORE attraction just like any of the techniques we discuss be it playful teasing, dominance, etc. But if you look like Josh Gad, who was just cast as Neil Strauss in The Game movie, then the ember of attraction is unlikely to be there and no amount of fanning (i.e. romance, vocal tonality, or teasing) is likely to create a flame.
You call it like you see it, because your lens limits the way you can see it.
The PUA community was never about the technique required to get laid and increase your numbers… to anyone other than the men. For women, the experience of interacting with PUA manifests—unbeknownst to them—in the form of shared experience. Only the community often falls short in marketing it as such because men, quite simply, too emotionally immature to respond and buy into it that way.
Whether you realize it or not, women respond to PUA technique because it heightens THEIR state. At weddings, on Valentine’s Day, after break-ups or divorce, on birthdays, or on vacation in the tropics of Thailand, a woman is already in a heightened state. Hence, easier.
ROMANCE is just a label for it. If you can serve to raise the level even further, you’re getting laid in a room above the DJ booth. Else, you’re par for the course, and stuck at home with your mental masturbation.
I feel like I’m qualified to speak on Aussie women, having meet and attempted to seduce a fair number of them. It’s true that after having been exposed to the alpha-male in overdrive kind of guys back home that many of them enjoy a more thoughtful and complex guy when they meet a foreigner. On the other hand, they’re also some of the most self-assured women on earth, and basically they go for what they want. So even though you might have felt that you were winning her over, and her nice little compliment about your wit was evidence of that, she was probably just perfectly comfortable enjoying your company and complimenting, and it didn’t mean anything to her. I don’t think it comes down to you and this guy being equally attractive to her, but him using romance to win.
If you went on to hook up with her later on the trip… well that’s a different story.
Agree that it doesn’t come down to me vs. him in this case. She was likely more attracted and her comment definitely doesn’t scream “you light my loins on fire” I was considering how the romance of the situation helped him overall. Imagine she met the same guy in a bar in Auckland on a Friday. Likely a different outcome. But vacation + exotic locale, etc. leads to hookup.
I agree with your notion that his “romantic” posture aided his success. Under the heading, “we like people who like us,” it seems to me that his commitment to her – he inspired her to call him “husband” – was a big part of the romance. You may have been smoother, wittier, better looking (and would have prevailed in LA or NY) but he was 1) A Thai in Thailand (e.g. “part of the exotic vacation package”), 2) totally committed to her in a way that could be supplicating….or hopelessly romantic if you are so inclined, 3) not so lame that she couldn’t buy into his schtick.
And that the take-away for me is that I should not become too jaded by US and Western hook-up culture to incoprorate those little flourishes of romantic behavior in my repertoire. It is similar to the notion of making oneself vulnerable, I think.
Thanks for the reminder.
Why would she be in Auckland? I hope you’re not mixing up Australia and New Zealand eh
Oh yeah, situation was very influential. I get what you’re saying now. I’m with you on this one.
lol…sure did. Friggin ignorant Americans.
Well I called an Irishman a Scot last night, so we’ll call it even.
I think every one of your “Romance is” points are great. As for the story it could have been anything like a few guys have said but it at the end of the day it was a well told story that set up the rest of the article wonderfully.
Guys can nit pick it all they want but what they need to focus on is the bottom half of the article. Classic men going for the analysis of the situation.
Chicks dig romance. I know I’m generalizing but in my personal life sample I’ve found it to be true for the most part. If you are a woman who does not like romance, I would love to hear why. There is nothing to be ashamed of.
Making someone feel special is all it really takes. Just being thoughtful and paying attention to someone is more romantic than many men ever get.
You don’t have to be in a relationship to be romantic either. You can be romantic with a girl you just met at the bar. You can be romantic with a girl who is your friend.
Romance is nothing to be ashamed of. It should be celebrated. Like the author eluded, it will heighten your enjoyment of life if you incorporate it more into it.
Nice article Xander. Looking forward to hearing more.
I’m going to be really blunt and rant here – I feel like there was very little practical information to take away from this article. The reflections on what romance entails are somewhat interesting, but ultimately of little use. A much more helpful would be an article would about how to purposefully incorporate romantic gestures into the dating process without sending needy signals to the girl. Do you have a follow up planned?
The examples of romance were rather abysmal. First of all, big pet peeve of mine, Romeo and Juliet is one of the least romantic stories I can think of. All respect due to Shakespeare for his influence on modern language, and his technical prowess in writing – Romeo and Juliet was a tale of two horny, infatuated teenagers who wanted quick access to sex without having to face any responsibilities or consequences. To paraphrase a meme about twilight: “With ‘Up’ Pixar created a more romantic tale in five minutes, than Shakespeare did in three acts of Rome and Juliet.” I actually shed a tear or two watching the prologue to ‘Up,’ with Romeo and Juliet I just wanted to smack them and tell them to grow up.
As far the intro story, I was very disappointed – I was expecting you to talk about how you overcame this guy’s cheesy tactics by being genuine with the girl. Instead, we hear how he steam rolled your natural game with a stack of routines that reek of old-style RSD. Aside from the exotic locale, and his defacto appeal as a foreigner, I see very little romance from his side of the pick-up.
I hate to continually be so negative about a lot of the articles here, and I feel like the old site had some amazing, mind blowing posts. Many of the new site articles feel rather subpar, particularly when compared to this site’s legacy.
I should have led with this, but better late than never. I respect and appreciate your humility in admitting and revealing a “defeat.” I feel that speaks to a genuine desire to help your audience.
I kind of agree with Palleon.
Its always informative to see “field reports” but Im not sure some dude giving a girl a paper ring and sleazing on her the same way he sleazes on hundreds of girls counts as Romance.
It is, as previously mentioned hard to take away practical points (apart from “be foreign”).
The biggest thing for me is to be the guy who goes after what he wants, the other guy was just more shameless and blatant in his pursuit of Sophia and ultimately got the reward.
It’s kind of a nice reminder to incorporate romance into a relationship which has already been established. However if you use romance early on I’d be willing to bet some girls might like it while others will not think you are a ‘real man.’
@Xander:
Thank you for sharing your experience. You provided a different perspective on romance in such a situation.
Just curious, did you continue to pursue Sophia afterwards? If so, do you believe you were “rewarding her inappropriately” with your attention even though she did not reciprocate your interest in her as the Anti-Game proponents would contend?
What I have learned in all my years being involved in social dynamics that holds most true is “that there are no rules, only guidelines”. While generally speaking “G” had some pretty good points “scientifically” there is still tons to be learned about human nature and we are in many ways primitive. If anyone here thinks that romance will not create attraction; they are plainly wrong. There are times in which depending on the right girl and circumstance buying a flower and dropping a cheesy line followed by a candlelight dinner will work and turn into a long term relationship. Not that it is advised to always take it that way but that is where calibration comes in. Every girl is a different puzzle to be unlocked. There are general guidelines of confidence, humor, masculinity and even those are relative to how she percieves them, what kind of mood she is in that day, whether she is straight or gay. The point of this article was that romance is not dead, and it is something worth experiencing, it doesnt make you beta, and it may even make a better relationship between “you and her”.
I think it’s silly do draw any conclusions from the actions of 1 (one) 20 y/o girl. I know we all want to believe that girl acted logically in some way but over analyzing such a situation can drive one crazy. It’s better to just let it go. Next!